Imperial Slaves - A Proposition
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Pay off their debt that you interupted them from paying off while you are at it
So this irritated me, because it's pretty cynical. This is an honest to god problem. The game is a passive mental trainer for the acceptability of slavery as a practice, and enables players to live out the fantasy of slave trading if they choose to do so without any respect or recognition of the human cost. I always had an issue with it, but hearing other people relate their personal issues with discrimination made me realize that part of the problem with discrimination is that when we don't say something when it bothers us. So what changed is this: it inspired me to finally say something, not to feel a certain way. Perhaps I can provide you with a daily itinerary and calendar of my activities, and you can critique where I missed opportunities to appropriately right the wrongs in society, since this effort seems not to have impressed you at all.
That is complete and utter mince.
Since this is new information, I'll say this: if the developer's intent was to foster debate through their game, they messed up. Is anyone here arguing for slavery? No, they are just arguing that the lore should be preserved and I should go play something else and shut up about it. That's the opposite of debate.
If a contemporary superpower still utilized institutionalized slavery as a practice in today's world, there would be all sorts of repercussions, starting at sanctions, and leading to total isolation if not war over the issue. There would be rebellion. There would be media footage of human suffering to show the true costs of slave trading. There is no mechanic in the game that simulates that kind of behavior, so it disrespects and belittles the issue, as well as the heritage of the millions of people who have been affected by the practice. But that's okay, let's by all means ignore all of that so long as we can have iron-clad continuity in our fictional lore and the ability to ham-fistedly debate the ethical ramifications of clicking on one line item in a made up galactic marketplace over another item.
Using the historical existence of slavery is not adequate justification for making a game that simulates it. As already said, plenty of horrible things occur in the world, I don't want them reduced to a bunch of inelegant spreadsheet mechanics in my space simulation. I'm trying to take a vacation from the real world and pretend that I'm flying a spaceship and exploring the universe, fighting pirates, and mining stuff from asteroids. But I also get slavery in my face all of the time and no way to meaningfully fight against it. It's like eating a delicious ice cream cone with flakes of poop in it.
The icing on the cake of all of this is that Frontier just recently and decidedly weighed in on the issue of in-game slavery (or indentured servitude) when players were actually doing it to other players. Spoiler: it is not something that they support. If you have not seen this playing out, feel free to google it.
Disagree, and I already explained why earlier in the thread. If you want to provide a counterpoint, I'd suggest adding some sort of logical argument and/or facts to support your interpretation.
We're dangerously close to discussing politics here but if you google a certain real world superpower not named the United States you'll find that exactly what is going on.
I can only speak to my own personal experiences in life but I started playing the game in 2015 and i've traded many a slave in the game. I've yet to trade any slaves in real life or find it in any way shape or form acceptable to do so.
I've also not participated in the trade of weapons to people in a state of civil war, drugs or any other number of illegal activities so yea im calling mince on the idea that slavery in a game is a as you say a passive mental trainer for the acceptability of slavery as a practice.
I bet you also practice your carjacking on GTA you fiend.
It certainly appears to have made the concept of slavery acceptable to you.
But here is some additional support: https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/08/violent-video-games
There are no comprehensive studies on the effect of slavery in games on how a person thinks though. You know why? Because slavery is a topic offensive enough that most developers tend to avoid it. Although there is a game on Steam now where you get to simulate a slave trader who sexually tortures his or her slaves into submission. Perhaps we will know more in a few years.
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Just to point out those players were no more slaves than I am working for gig economy companies who take massive cuts of my profits. If anything it was a prank with a set time when the people involved got told.
And yet the repercussions for those actions were far more consequential than those in game are for virtual indentured servitude. The offending parties no longer exist in the universe. They should just get a 200cr. bounty and sent to a nearby prison.
They were harsher because it was a conflation of bad parenting, kids, racist forums masquerading as silly RP and bad PR for FD.
If you want real Imperial Slavery in game, if you go bankrupt there should be an option to pay off your debts as an Imperial Slave...if you accept the loan on rebuy this is pretty much what you do anyway.
When you remove slavery, you also have to remove Communism from the game. It is, after all, the most murderous and vile ideology invented by mankind and the only ideology with an even higher bodycount than the Nazi scum.
Or you could just accept that the Elite universe isn't some utopia and perfect place of harmony, and leave your RL politics out of video games. I for one prefer the second option.
Or you could just accept that the Elite universe isn't some utopia and perfect place of harmony, and leave your RL politics out of video games. I for one prefer the second option.
What grounds or reasoning did Fdev give for the banning of Mining "slavers"?
They didn’t and they don’t have to, presumably for being very very naughty. You can try and infer the reasoning from a TOS violation but there’s a lot of room for interpretation.
Without elaboration, they said that the offending parties violated the TOS and that the matter was being handled directly between them. As they should. The offending parties in question were more forthcoming about the specifics.
From my perspective, it appears as though Fdev condones their storyline of Imperial Slaves being indentured servants and condemns any other instance of the such. I too have a strong opposition to the existence of slavery in ED, in any way. The whole mining faction situation has just confirmed their own hypocrisy in my opinion.
This game is a part of my real life. I understand and hear that you would prefer to act out your slave trading fantasy in a game. My preference is that it's not in the game, and have stated so in this thread with multiple reasons to support that preference, which was why I made it.
I understand that I'm meant to acknowledge that slavery exists and is an acceptable and unavoidable part of human existence with no means to stop it or punish those who perpetrate it (apart from banning them from the universe). Just like I chose not to purchase and download the slavery game currently available on Steam, you think I should simply abandon Elite and my sunk costs, and find another game that is more aligned with my personal preferences. I might do that, but in the meantime, I'll continue to argue against it while I have the motivation to do so.
OP your games collection must be pretty barren, if you’re genuinely that sensitive to possible references in your leisure time. And I say that as one of the most bleeding-heart liberal carebears you’ll probably meet. Elite’s setting has always, to me at least, been at least a little tongue-in-cheek so I do try not to take it too seriously, although I did get all hot and bothered during the Ackwada CG trying to defend the Marlinist refugee evacuations from Imperial collective punishment.
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