Prone is confirmed not in EDO. Crouch yes, prone no.
Am I the only person who is utterly unenthused right now about a generic FPS being shoehorned into my spaceship game?
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It's really not. People think it is because they compare it to Ace Combat or Everspace, but you still have magic thrusters and inconsequential mass and inertia, unlike Space Engineers. And let's not even mention the silly boost implementation in ED.
Also, SE has highly customizable "FA-off", which is way more flexible that ED's version.
Disclaimer - I didn't start this debate! People turned on the
I'm very new to the game and got it for the flying, and I think the fps elements are part trying to expand their player base but that there's a lot they haven't showed that will be entertaining. I'm excited about the possibility of exploring ELWs, SRV or not. I think they aren't going to just add on an FPS mode, but expand the game into "space legs" across at the very least combat, trade, and exploration.
If can't use my joysticks, throttle or pedals on top of no head tracking or VR, I wouldn't even consider it. That's as much a flight game as GTA is a driving game.
What inconsequential inertia? Aside from the SF staple of shields, impact at high speeds and mass do a heck of a lot of damage...
Have we gone from a single suit puncture to talking about a weapon that suddenly strips off your entire suit? That might explain the increase in age rating...
I think you’d have to have serious blood pressure problems if decompression would break your skull - it’s a common misconception that you’d explode in a vacuum. Some stuff from New Scientist:
Sadly we know how long humans can survive if suddenly exposed to the vacuum of space. Three Soviet cosmonauts died in 1971 when a faulty valve caused their Soyuz 11 capsule to depressurise at an altitude of 168 kilometres, shortly before re-entry into the Earth’s atmosphere. Investigations revealed that the cabin pressure dropped to zero for 11 minutes and 40 seconds, until the capsule hit the atmosphere. The crew died within 30 to 40 seconds from hypoxia. “You need both oxygen and air pressure to deliver oxygen to the brain,” says Jonathan Clark, a former space shuttle crew surgeon.
It is possible to recover from shorter spells in a vacuum, however. In 1966 a NASA technician was testing a spacesuit in a vacuum chamber when the pressure dropped to the level you would experience at an altitude of 36,500 metres. He passed out after 12 to 15 seconds. The last thing he recalled was the saliva boiling off his tongue; that’s because water vaporises at low pressure. He regained consciousness within 27 seconds when the chamber was repressurised to the equivalent of an altitude of 4200 metres. Although he was pale, he suffered no adverse health effects.
Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ong-could-you-survive-a-vacuum/#ixzz6nkRRM6VR
It is possible to recover from shorter spells in a vacuum, however. In 1966 a NASA technician was testing a spacesuit in a vacuum chamber when the pressure dropped to the level you would experience at an altitude of 36,500 metres. He passed out after 12 to 15 seconds. The last thing he recalled was the saliva boiling off his tongue; that’s because water vaporises at low pressure. He regained consciousness within 27 seconds when the chamber was repressurised to the equivalent of an altitude of 4200 metres. Although he was pale, he suffered no adverse health effects.
Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ong-could-you-survive-a-vacuum/#ixzz6nkRRM6VR
Upon sudden decompression in vacuum, expansion of air in a person’s lungs is likely to cause lung rupture and death unless that air is immediately exhaled. Decompression can also lead to a possibly fatal condition called ebullism, where reduced pressure of the environment lowers the boiling temperature of body fluids and initiates transition of liquid water in the bloodstream and soft tissues into water vapor [2]. At minimum, ebullism will cause tissue swelling and bruising due to the formation of water vapor under the skin; at worst, it can give rise to an embolism, or blood vessel blockage due to gas bubbles in the bloodstream.
I play ED to fly spaceships in VR.
If I want to FPS on flat screen there are a myriad of other titles that do this better than FDev will ever manage.
Or better yet, Onward or Pavlov!
Of course I’ll buy Odyssey, of course I will, and I am actually looking forward to it, but I’m nowhere near as excited as I was when Horizons came out...
If I want to FPS on flat screen there are a myriad of other titles that do this better than FDev will ever manage.
Or better yet, Onward or Pavlov!
Of course I’ll buy Odyssey, of course I will, and I am actually looking forward to it, but I’m nowhere near as excited as I was when Horizons came out...
Viajero
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Déjà vu!
What you describe as "zero competion" can also be viewed as "brilliant enough to pull off something so detailed, appealing and engrossing that no one else has been able to get close enough".
Not saying that literally is the case but just so to point out that not having competition is simply another way to express the fact something is among best in class to start with.
Otherwise having zero competition in an market segment that is easy to enter or compete in would usually end fast, with other competitors joining the fray soon enough. Alas, you seem to suggest that in the last 6+ years since ED launched that does not seem to have been the case.
Now, having said that I actually think ED has had and has tons of competition.
Warning wall of text!
Granted, if you define competition as in "any other games that do what Elite does, or close" then you will be hard pressed to find many games that compete. The only option left as of today would be pretty much to clone Elite. But I personally think that would be narrowing the scope of the definition so dramatically that it would render the discussion a bit moot and useless. Successful games tipically and often tend to be succesful precisely because they manage to differentiate themselves well enough from others, weather it is in actual innovative game features, or improved quality of old proven ones, or great graphics, or great social features, or great marketing or... etc. And that is hard, it requires good planning and execution.
More critically and to the point here you also seem to think, and correct me if I am wrong, that a lack other games in this very specific and narrow niche would prevent FDEV from being motivated to improve or do better. And this is the part where I think you may be missing a new angle, so let me put a different spin on what you may consider competition.
EVE, the X series, Space Engineers etc or SC even if not released yet, so to get some examples.
All those other space games may do things better than Elite in certain areas. If you dont trust me ask @Old Duck
And that is precisley what competition means because at one point or another some players that may be considering spending time or money in Elite may decide to spend that time and money with any of those other games instead because in their view they may do some of those things better.
In other words, you do not need another game or games that fall squarely into Elite´s niche to generate that competion. Games compete every day on the basis of partial overlap of feature sets that players of every walk of life may find attractive.
FDEV probably knows this very well, and follows relatively closely the development of games that share some of the themes or features that Elite has. Games like EVE, NMS, Space Engineers, Kerbal, Astroneer, Evochron, Hellion. Even non game software like Space Engine or projects of games in development such as Star Citizen are already competing with Elite for some of the same players time and money (almost 350 million dollars there suggest as much). Now some of us may be able to spend both time and money in more than one of these, but that does not detract an atom from the fact that the competition is very real and the developers of each of those are in competition either in most or some of the features of their games and projects.
This competition, has been there since day 1. For example, the Star Citizen kickstarter was about the same time as Elite´s and I would bet that FDEV´s project execution plan was somewhat influenced (even if it was just so to decide the Elite´s launch date and some elements of the scope that would go into it) by the public views and plan for SC coming from Chris Roberts. And viceversa.
All those represent very real competition that makes a dev team to try and stretch and strive to deliver better and/or faster, or all of the above, than others. The results obviously are for each of us to judge, these may be better at times, not so good at others (competition alone does not guarantee good results), but that is by the by, the incentive for FDEV to stretch and improve Elite is there thanks to all that competition since day 1.
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Nothing like some light reading to start the day, what what
My cornflakes went soggy
Toodly pipsky
Yeah... going from 1 atmosphere to 0 isn't terrible... the issues around vacuum exposure (As described in the stuff you posted) are a bigger concern (though; don't hold your breath!)Have we gone from a single suit puncture to talking about a weapon that suddenly strips off your entire suit? That might explain the increase in age rating...
I think you’d have to have serious blood pressure problems if decompression would break your skull - it’s a common misconception that you’d explode in a vacuum.
<snip>
...and anyway, I’ve seen belters survive exposure to vacuum in The Expanse, and you can’t get better than that for a source
Now, if your suit were pressurised to 9 atmos, then we're talking Byford Dolphin-type effects.
Déjà vu!
I completely forgot your counter argument. It was good last time too, though this time i found a problem with it... Star Citizen is not competition for elite. Perhaps when they first launched, but its since evolved on a very divergent path into something else. What known and expected event in the future of Star Citizen is going to make any material difference to moving players away from elite? Absolutely nothing. Star Citizen.... its just that thing. Its not in the same league as elite, which operates in the sphere of steam, the epic games store, consoles etc.
Having legs in space, EVA and zero g mechanics would differentiate ED from majority of FPS games. I wonder how we’ll navigate inside outposts with no artificial gravity from centrifugal force.
Maybe FDev will introduce zero g in a later expansion.
Non-inclusive, unordered list of things I'd rather have in the game than an FPS:
- Much better mission system.
- Better NPC AIs.
- Better networking.
- Better multi-crew.
- ...
I’m hoping we’ll get zero G stuff further down the line - but for Odyssey release:
Zero competition means a product has no competitors in the market. It does not mean it's the best among it's competitors. If you want play relativist and redefine definitions, you have worse than zero argument.
Companies only enter markets with few offerings if they feel that niche market serves a large enough customer base that they could break off a healthy fraction and earn enough to make it worthwhile. Markets with small customer bases tend to have very few companies that can survive unless it is a very cheap product to produce. Anyone who has an interest in anything niche-y knows that niches are invariably ruled by a tiny number of companies. Flight sims have a small enough customer base that it's not necessarily easy to enter or compete because the guarantees are so slim that it is really a risk. It's not nearly as clear-cut as you outline.
Spaceship sims are, in fact, a very small market in the video game world. And very small, in relative terms, is a grand overstatement in this case.
I've yet to see a single competitor to ED besides Evochron, which doesn't have the manpower to actually compete, but go on.
In Eve you do not pilot ships at all, you manage the computer that pilots the ship. Because it is not a flight centered game.
X series is as much a sim as Freelancer. Ie, not at all. Far too stripped down in the flight/piloting aspect, because it is not a flight centered game.
Space Engineers doesn't even support joysticks or headtracking/vr, because it is not a flight centered game.
SC's ships are all pre-baked and the flight/piloting aspect is, once again, stripped down because it is not a flight centered game.
Having a spaceship transport in a game entirely centered on other activities doesn't make it a flight sim.
Lol, what?
I can't even find what it looks like sitting in the cockpit in this game. Definitely a flight sim!
The one true competitor, that has one developer and no content.
You have to be joking now.
. . . Unless you play ED for piloting spaceships. Then there is exactly zero reasons to play those games in place of ED. It's why I don't bother with them.
None of these are direct competitors to ED because, while they have space flight, the space flight is a portion of the game. Not the focus. Calling these game space flight sims is no different than calling GTA a racing/driving sim. Just because GTA has a lot of cars and you do plenty of driving, does not a driving sim it make.
The only game that is even in the same category as ED is Evochron, and it has no content due to being a 1 man show.
. . . Unless you want to directly pilot a spaceship with joysticks/throttles/pedals and use headtracking/vr like literally every flight sim. Then precisely zero of the 'competitors' you listed make the cut.
There is clearly a point of confusion in this particular topic, and that stems from the fact that there are two categories of players who engage in ED. Gamers who like space sci-fi stuff in general, and gamers who like flight sims and want to fly in space. These categories are not remotely the same thing, they just have a common overlap. Gamers who like space sci-fi stuff in general but aren't into flight sims, for example, proooooobably aren't playing DCS on the side. And they would also claim Ace Combat seems a competitor to DCS. Which, as ludicrous as that statement would be, is less ludicrous than comparing Eve to ED.
Every game you listed, besides Evochron, is only competition for ED among the category of ED players that play it because they like space sci-fi stuff in general. They have nothing to offer sim fans for their flight sim itch.
Want to fly planes? You have DCS, MSFS, X Plane and IL-2. All great quality with content.
Want to fly spaceships? You have ED. That is it. Unless you're ok with zero content, then you have Evochron as well, I suppose.
To wrap back around to the point of market competition; due to the fact that FD is fractioning the game into multiple genres and is currently the only space flight sim that can reasonably be seen to be competitive, there is a serious opening in the market for someone to make a space flight DCS. Were someone to do that, it would seriously hurt Elite due to it's balkanizing. I wouldn't be surprised if it lost 1/3 of it's players permanently if that happened.
You won't navigate inside Outposts unless FD grants them artificial gravity, and since zero gravity would destroy FPS gameplay as anyone recognizes it, I wouldn't hold your breath on FD implementing zero G FPS. I mean, you can ask in the next QA, but I predict you will hear, "We currently have no plans...". FD is looking to bring in fresh blood with a familiar and popular genre, not confuse people with zero G FPS.
Though it would be awesome. I wanted spacelegs to repair my ship in EVA, not dirtlegs for mediocre tier FPS, but oh well.
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I suppose I should admit that I see plenty of competition for Elite because I don't see it as a space flight game. It's flight model is so far removed from reality it may as well be the Top Gun arcade flight model - Kerbal has a more accurate flight engine. Now, Orbiter is a space flight sim.. I've got more hours there than I have in Elite - but I've also been playing it for a lot longer.
Since release the game has meant different things for different people and each subsequent dlc has been a hit for some and a fail for others. For me I didn't want engineers in my universe (I still don't like them even though it's much improved since it's introduction) but for others and indeed friends that are still playing, they like that addition.
Odyssey represents an opportunity to expand many aspects of the core game, not just add a run of the mill FPS experience. The ability to explore at the relatively micro level compared to now, I think is pretty cool and if there's subterranean elements then it could be fantastic.
All that aside I'm slightly pessimistic about odyssey, FDev have for me at least a history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I can't think of a release which hasn't been fundamentally watered down at what almost seems like the last minute and then never looked at again before being abandoned. Just look at how powers, BGS, cqc, multicrew, fleet carriers and squadrons turned out a for an example.
I'm lifetime backer so I can't complain really, the game represents unparalleled value for money I just wish they would manage to see their bigger ideas through to fruition and not get distracted by the usual sea of tears that lap in like waves when it seems like there's a risk of dying, losing credits or god forbid interacting with a fellow human.
Odyssey represents an opportunity to expand many aspects of the core game, not just add a run of the mill FPS experience. The ability to explore at the relatively micro level compared to now, I think is pretty cool and if there's subterranean elements then it could be fantastic.
All that aside I'm slightly pessimistic about odyssey, FDev have for me at least a history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I can't think of a release which hasn't been fundamentally watered down at what almost seems like the last minute and then never looked at again before being abandoned. Just look at how powers, BGS, cqc, multicrew, fleet carriers and squadrons turned out a for an example.
I'm lifetime backer so I can't complain really, the game represents unparalleled value for money I just wish they would manage to see their bigger ideas through to fruition and not get distracted by the usual sea of tears that lap in like waves when it seems like there's a risk of dying, losing credits or god forbid interacting with a fellow human.
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I think we need to wait and see how extensive the additions away from settlements are. Because that seems to be about 90% of what they've shared.
We haven't seen a single leaf of the new biological life, although it keeps getting mentioned in dev diaries and interviews. We don't know how that is distributed and what impact it has on the richness of exploration gameplay and overall visual/experiential variety in the galaxy. Is it just the same little clusters of fungus with a few more models? Is it biomes covering whole landscapes? Are ten new types of life? A hundred? A thousand? Or a limitless procedural variety? What can we do with them? How repetitive are the interactions? What are the rewards?
We haven't seen the new surface POIs. Crash sites, wreckage, pirate caches, etc. Something that has existed since Horizons but has been crying out for improvement for years. What is the salvage gameplay like? What is the variety like? How do we zero in on valuable sites? What are the interactions like? What can we gain? What are the risks? Will encounters with enemy NPCs at these sites feel unpredictable and organic, or as rigidly scripted as the NPCs that appear when you drop out at a ring?
What other things will we find on the new planets? What improvements might it bring to space gameplay? New scenarios (the scripting system that was added in Beyond with the express purpose of building upon it later)? New phenomena? Codex "Rumours" for Explorers to go searching?
There could be just as much put into that side of things as the settlements and FPS battles. Or they could just be vestigial stumps.
They're either focusing on FPS stuff because they know that's sexy stuff for grabbing people's attention on gaming news sites, and are holding off on other features till nearer the time to have something to surprise existing players with (we know they are keeping stuff back, they've said as much). Or this is genuinely where all the development has gone.
We'll see.
The jury is out and any speculation either way is just crystal ball buttsmoke. Albeit fun crystal ball buttsmoke.
Personally, for me, it's never been a game purely about spaceships, but about what a spaceship allows me to go see and do. I'm focused out of the cockpit not in at the internals and outfitting and engineering particularly. That stuff's a means to an end.
So I was never a huge proponent of space legs, but if it lets me explore the galaxy at a different scale and lets me see and do more stuff and have a wider variety of experiences, then I'm excited for it. But it all depends on the implementation.
We haven't seen a single leaf of the new biological life, although it keeps getting mentioned in dev diaries and interviews. We don't know how that is distributed and what impact it has on the richness of exploration gameplay and overall visual/experiential variety in the galaxy. Is it just the same little clusters of fungus with a few more models? Is it biomes covering whole landscapes? Are ten new types of life? A hundred? A thousand? Or a limitless procedural variety? What can we do with them? How repetitive are the interactions? What are the rewards?
We haven't seen the new surface POIs. Crash sites, wreckage, pirate caches, etc. Something that has existed since Horizons but has been crying out for improvement for years. What is the salvage gameplay like? What is the variety like? How do we zero in on valuable sites? What are the interactions like? What can we gain? What are the risks? Will encounters with enemy NPCs at these sites feel unpredictable and organic, or as rigidly scripted as the NPCs that appear when you drop out at a ring?
What other things will we find on the new planets? What improvements might it bring to space gameplay? New scenarios (the scripting system that was added in Beyond with the express purpose of building upon it later)? New phenomena? Codex "Rumours" for Explorers to go searching?
There could be just as much put into that side of things as the settlements and FPS battles. Or they could just be vestigial stumps.
They're either focusing on FPS stuff because they know that's sexy stuff for grabbing people's attention on gaming news sites, and are holding off on other features till nearer the time to have something to surprise existing players with (we know they are keeping stuff back, they've said as much). Or this is genuinely where all the development has gone.
We'll see.
The jury is out and any speculation either way is just crystal ball buttsmoke. Albeit fun crystal ball buttsmoke.
Personally, for me, it's never been a game purely about spaceships, but about what a spaceship allows me to go see and do. I'm focused out of the cockpit not in at the internals and outfitting and engineering particularly. That stuff's a means to an end.
So I was never a huge proponent of space legs, but if it lets me explore the galaxy at a different scale and lets me see and do more stuff and have a wider variety of experiences, then I'm excited for it. But it all depends on the implementation.
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until anything like this is shown, it doesnt exist.
Fdev have a reputation of promising things and not delivering, so until it is shown working it simply doesnt exist.
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