I wanna ask a huge favor of the game devs for the nonbinary community

[znôrt]

That's all it would take; it's straightforward and unobtrusive if done right.

i don't think this is straightforward and unobtrusive at all, e.g.:

It just came up in the course of the narrative that he had a husband.

you just said "he". one more sentence is all it took for you to step on a mine.

this is a rabbit hole and i don't really see the benefit at all, more than a solution to a problem it is just creating more problems.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxu7xLp4pnY

 

[Vedmo]

Seven more pages, which I've read all of since my first off the hip post, and while I still stand by that sentiment (in game representations, including comms, of the characters we are playing should not display IRL/personal info, for both role play and security reasons), the conversation has brought me some other thoughts as well.

Long before I was ever aware of non-binary people (not long ago) I already had years of experience playing video games with people online, and the farther back I go the more common it was for people to value their online anonymity. I knew these other people as their avatars at the least, and mostly as the characters they played. Most of the time I never learned a single real life personal identifier of any sort about them. Crossing that bridge from anonymous person I can turn off with a switch to a face, name, and personal info of another human was viewed as an at least somewhat solemn decision.

There was on occasion of course, times in which I would be talking about a person and wanted to reference them instead of their character that I knew them through. Not knowing if that person was male or female (at the time, so far as I knew, the only options that existed), and with very little thought to the topic at all I would simply refer to them as they or them. I did not do this out of social pressure. I did not do this out of fear of offending anyone. I did not do this to cater to anyone. I would have never guessed I was a short time away from they/them being preferred pronouns for some, and probably would not have believed it if I could have looked through a crystal ball into the future. I simply did it because I didn't know (or care) if they were a he or a she, so I went with the most accurate term available.

What I am trying to get at I guess is that before I had ever heard any of the jargon or arguments of this issue, I had already made my own decision on how to handle referring to someone through pronouns when the situation arose and I did not know that person's gender. I used they/them, and it was a near meaningless choice to make. I don't know why that should change now. I also don't know why it should be implemented into the game.

 

[RamirezKurita]

Blowing me up for what I identify for and harassing me into keeping my identity to myself is oppression.

Again, I'd like to remind everyone that this isnt about politics, Orwellian Nightmares, etc. Its just asking for representation. Yall who are making it more than that probably are caught up in something they dont understand and project that lack of understanding here, in a simple request for representation, not the downfall of democracy.

But the point is that nobody is represented, whether they are cis, trans, agendered, gender fluid, full-spectrum gendered, or any other self-identification that I can't think of. There's the beautiful equality of it all, nobody is getting preferential treatment, nobody is missing out, nobody is being oppressed, because there's nothing in game relating to a player's (or their in-game avatar's) gender.

And to exclude this kind of identity politics from the game is the most inclusive approach of all, as it includes not only common identities and uncommon ones too, but also is fully future proof in case of personal identities diversifying further in the future.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Note to all participants: please discuss the topic. Other participants are not the topic. Failure to comply will result in reply bans, advisories, warnings and / or thread closure.

 

[Vetinari]

you just said "he". one more sentence is all it took for you to step on a mine.

GalNet reported, emphasis added.

"The Federal Intelligence Agency has taken Jupiter Rochester into custody, where he will be charged for his involvement in the destruction of Starship One in 3301."

Its not a mine, gender pronoun is specified, one presumes in 3307 nobody cares so it is the pronoun Jupiter prefers. Its respecting the pronoun already used.

 

[znôrt]

GalNet reported, emphasis added.

"The Federal Intelligence Agency has taken Jupiter Rochester into custody, where he will be charged for his involvement in the destruction of Starship One in 3301.
Its not a mine, gender pronoun is specified, one presumes in 3307 nobody cares so it is the pronoun Jupiter prefers. Its respecting the pronoun already used.

i would need certification that galnet editors had jupiter's permission to be identified as male. maybe he doesn't? this is not obvious and it might be hurting a being's feelings.

 

[Vetinari]

i would need certification that galnet editors had jupiter's permission to be identified as male. maybe he doesn't? this is not obvious and it might be hurting a being's feelings.

Well we presume that has happened, otherwise the better sentence to write or say if at all unsure would have been:

"The Federal Intelligence Agency has taken Jupiter Rochester into custody, where they will be charged for their involvement in the destruction of Starship One in 3301."

Wouldnt you agree?

 

[uberx24]

You're all being trollerd. OP has never asked a single question about playing the game. I'd like to bet that they never have played it otherwise they'd know that we already have gender neutral pronouns.

These trolls have been sent out on a mission to affect, disrupt and demoralise game players and the game industry because it's one of the last areas that brings together people that have different political, religious and social values . If you follow any of the gaming commentators, you can learn how these trolls work. It all started with gamergate, but has now spread throughout the entertainment industry.

Lack of Entertainmemt is a good channel to follow if you're interested to know how it all works:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVLl8FTSdig

Look me up ingame, same username. I dare you. Its also surreal that I am somehow caught up in a conspiracy I never knew to demoralize gamers. Please remember I am asking for 2 simple things, nothing more.

 

[Michael Whatever]

I don't know.........

IMHO :

• a Commander here is simply that - a CMDR. Doesn't matter who's behind the Controls. For all I care you could be a winged and tailed, blue-haired and egg-laying species from Beta Phoenicis playing via a piggybacked hacked relay of the ISS. Even then, you'd still be a CMDR. Period...........

I vehemently oppose this and feel that piggybacking from the ISS to play from Beta Phoenicis must surely break some of Frontier's TOS. ( )


I will try to address people how they wish to be addressed.
Please don't be embarrassed to correct me if I get it wrong, I make assumptions but it's not done with malice.
Maybe not as urgent as some of the QOL improvements I'd love to see, but fine, add it to the list of options somewhere.
Don't see how this can be contentious.
If this makes gaming less embarrassing for some, I'm really okay with that.
Respect and politeness in chat can't be a bad thing.

FWIW in my head I tend to use a variety of generally "gender neutral" terms for most of the commanders I meet.
Good manners and the profanity filter, however prevent me from using such terms in chat.

 

[znôrt]

Well we presume that has happened, otherwise the better sentence to write or say if at all unsure would have been:

"The Federal Intelligence Agency has taken Jupiter Rochester into custody, where they will be charged for their involvement in the destruction of Starship One in 3301."

Wouldnt you agree?

not really? that the sentence is consistent doesn't imply permission, not even acknowledgement of the potential issue.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Look me up ingame, same username..

Inara says:

INARA

The community site for Elite: Dangerous, Starfield, Kingdom Come: Deliverance with the game databases, information, gaming news and other handy content...

inara.cz

So certainly played on December 11th 2020, if apparently not since.

 

[uberx24]

Inara says:

INARA

The community site for Elite: Dangerous, Starfield, Kingdom Come: Deliverance with the game databases, information, gaming news and other handy content...

inara.cz

So certainly played on December 11th 2020, if apparently not since.

Nice, check ingame. I just have inara to see whats near my home system. Unsure how to use the rest of it

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

If we’re going to venture into ‘They’re putting something in the water that is turning the frogs gay’ conspiracy realms, I have one of my own.

At the heart of most of these discussions, as has been stated here, more than once, is just basic manners, politeness and a bit of human decency.

People create terms such as Woke or Cancel Culture because you can then easily tell people that you hate this load of woke nonsense, rather than say ‘I hate this stuff about politeness, manners and human decency.‘

 

[Rat Catcher]

Nice, check ingame. I just have inara to see whats near my home system. Unsure how to use the rest of it

Hmm... Active in last hour... Which would certainly be something that I'd do, before posting, too - as it doesn't show when the last previous log-in might be
Look at any of my 4 accounts and one would only notice the last time they played, not the length of time since the previous session, which could have been many months, or years.

 

[Eeka]

in game representations, including comms, of the characters we are playing should not display IRL/personal info, for both role play and security reasons

Definitely. We shouldn't be playing ourselves in the game, but fictional characters. This is what a game is for. ED is not a life-simulator. We are already real-life characters and look for a game to play a different reality. Even if you see yourself in your game character, it is not you but a fictional you, so it can already be anything you want/desire (stronger, smaller, alien-like and so on). This game is about a huge fictional universe and has allowed me to play a self-aware AI that is using a female android body and is able to pilot all the fleet of a small corporation that pioneers mecha suit research.

This is why i believe discussion around pronouns, politics, what is right or wrong and the related two-sided war that already happens in real life is totally unrelated to Elite Dangerous gameplay and should stay out of it. It would sadden me deeply if FDev allowed it to change the current model of the game and lore, because i would not have other way to stray away from the all the madness people is creating to fight each other nowadays....

 

[uberx24]

Hmm... Active in last hour... Which would certainly be something that I'd do, before posting, too - as it doesn't show when the last previous log-in might be
Look at any of my 4 accounts and one would only notice the last time they played, not the length of time since the previous session, which could have been many months, or years.

Well then my fleet is a federal corvette, anaconda, crusader, ieagle and regular eagle. I am also somewhat known in the axi discord for flying my shielded corevette and recently soloing a cyclops in the Aestrope System.

 

[znôrt]

People create terms such as Woke or Cancel Culture because you can then easily tell people that you hate this load of woke nonsense, rather than say ‘I hate this stuff about politeness, manners and human decency.‘

it goes both ways. i would have trouble identifying if op's request is a plea for human decency (whatever that should mean, go ask a pig or an orangutan what they think about human decency) or simply attention seeking and trolling, in which case he might be quite indecently trivializing the suffering of people that get really harmed by stereotypes.

mess about pronouns. for avatars. in a game. which hasn't any. have we let that sink in yet after page 9?

 

[Brrokk]

If we’re going to venture into ‘They’re putting something in the water that is turning the frogs gay’ conspiracy realms, I have one of my own.

At the heart of most of these discussions, as has been stated here, more than once, is just basic manners, politeness and a bit of human decency.

People create terms such as Woke or Cancel Culture because you can then easily tell people that you hate this load of woke nonsense, rather than say ‘I hate this stuff about politeness, manners and human decency.‘

50-50 I think. If I may use the terms "right" and "left" loosely, I believe "cancel culture" was invented by the right to complain about the left not listening to them enough, but "woke" was invented by the left to indicate that they're better than the right.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Well then my fleet is a federal corvette, anaconda, crusader, ieagle and regular eagle. I am also somewhat known in the axi discord for flying my shielded corevette and recently soloing a cyclops in the Aestrope System.

Fine, one is sure they did - perhaps updating Inara would present one in a more favourable light when one is requesting others to "check one's credentials" as it were. Just one making a suggestion, of course, as one is only able to percieve how they present their CMDR from limited information.

 

[uberx24]

Fine, one is sure they did - perhaps updating Inara would present one in a more favourable light when one is requesting others to "check one's credentials" as it were. Just one making a suggestion, of course, as one is only able to percieve how they present their CMDR from limited information.

While we are going off topic again; I think your advice is good. Allow me to update it. Its updated