I just got blown up by my own carrier, while defending myself from the police that are meant to defend my carrier.

[Viscera]

That's how I got my license.

So you didn't find it in a cracker then?

Lore, huh, wut is it good for... Nuthin!

 

[[VR] Mad Life Crisis]

As I type this I am being shot

Best stop typing then.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

This, 100% this. You carrier should NEVER ever fire on you, you should never be able to commit a crime against it, or get a fine or bounty by doing anything to it. It is your property.

I'd agree we own the carrier. The crew on the other hand are meant to be there voluntarily and not indentured (I would have thought anyway). If my boss starts running around shooting things I'm not going to just stand there.

It comes back to whether we should be attacked by the carrier for deliberately firing on it.

If the answer is yes we go back to the question of how does the game determine intent, especially if I recall from my hauler test, you're not instantly vapourised on the first hit (I do need to retest this though). I suspect there was more than a stray shot or two here.

If no, we need to think what would explain why your crew should just sit there whilst you take pot shots at them when they have the option of stopping you doing it non- lethally?

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I'd agree we own the carrier. The crew on the other hand are meant to be there voluntarily and not indentured (I would have thought anyway). If my boss starts running around shooting things I'm not going to just stand there.

It comes back to whether we should be attacked by the carrier for deliberately firing on it.

If the answer is yes we go back to the question of how does the game determine intent, especially if I recall from my hauler test, you're not instantly vapourised on the first hit (I do need to retest this though). I suspect there was more than a stray shot or two here.

If no, we need to think what would explain why your crew should just sit there whilst you take pot shots at them when they have the option of stopping you doing it non- lethally?

You're being absurd. You put the imaginary FC crews feelings or whatever over that of the real life player and owner?

Absurd. The "crew" knew a battle was taking place. They wouldn't freak out that a stray round hit their invulnerable carrier anyway!

 

[Dillon Fallon]

You're being absurd. You put the imaginary FC crews feelings or whatever over that of the real life player and owner?

Absurd. The "crew" knew a battle was taking place. They wouldn't freak out that a stray round hit their invulnerable carrier anyway!

If we're going to bring things that are invulnerable into it, let's look at our characters. Players shouldn't freak out over a rebuy for the same reason.

It would been more than a stray round as well.

 

[nanite2000]

If we're going to bring things that are invulnerable into it, let's look at our characters. Players shouldn't freak out over a rebuy for the same reason.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

You're being absurd. You put the imaginary FC crews feelings or whatever over that of the real life player and owner?

Absurd. The "crew" knew a battle was taking place. They wouldn't freak out that a stray round hit their invulnerable carrier anyway!

So your objection to someone's proposed explanation is that they're proposing the actions of an imaginary crew? That would be fine, I suppose, but then you explain your objection by stating what the imaginary crew would do. You cant have it both ways,

 

[nanite2000]

So your objection to someone's proposed explanation is that they're proposing the actions of an imaginary crew? That would be fine, I suppose, but then you explain your objection by stating what the imaginary crew would do. You cant have it both ways,

Oh, oh! Let me try, please!

You are Cmdr William Adama in command of the Battlestar Galactica which has just come under attack from Cylon Raiders. You order the launch of Colonial Vipers to engage the Cylons and defend the Battlestar. The Cylons perform strafing runs across the hull of the Battlestar, while Vipers attempt to destroy them. The Cylons use evasive maneuvers to avoid being shot, and as a result some of the Vipers' weapon shots hit the Battlestar Galactica herself, causing no damage.

Do you:

1. Ignore the shots from your own Vipers, because you know they are obviously not intentionally trying to destroy you?
2. Ignore the shots from your own Vipers, because you know their weapons can't harm you anyway?
3. Issue a warning to your own vipers to please be a bit more careful?
4. Destroy your own Vipers?
   1. (Bonus points if one of those vipers targeted for destruction actually has Cmdr William Adama himself in the pilot seat!)

In what reality (imagined, in-game, or otherwise) would option (4) be the best choice?

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Oh, oh! Let me try, please!

You are Cmdr William Adama in command of the Battlestar Galactica which has just come under attack from Cylon Raiders. You order the launch of Colonial Vipers to engage the Cylons and defend the Battlestar. The Cylons perform strafing runs across the hull of the Battlestar, while Vipers attempt to destroy them. The Cylons use evasive maneuvers to avoid being shot, and as a result some of the Vipers' weapon shots hit the Battlestar Galactica herself, causing no damage.

Do you:

1. Ignore the shots from your own Vipers, because you know they are obviously not intentionally trying to destroy you?
2. Ignore the shots from your own Vipers, because you know their weapons can't harm you anyway?
3. Issue a warning to your own vipers to please be a bit more careful?
4. Destroy your own Vipers?
   1. (Bonus points if one of those vipers targeted for destruction actually has Cmdr William Adama himself in the pilot seat!)

In what reality (imagined, in-game, or otherwise) would option (4) be the best choice?

After 3. Which is what happens.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

So your objection to someone's proposed explanation is that they're proposing the actions of an imaginary crew? That would be fine, I suppose, but then you explain your objection by stating what the imaginary crew would do. You cant have it both ways,

You understand if/then right?

Clearly I'm not having it both ways. I'm saying IF we have to take FC's feelings on this situation into consideration for some reason, THEN x.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

You understand if/then right?

Clearly I'm not having it both ways. I'm saying IF we have to take FC's feelings on this situation into consideration for some reason, THEN x.

Ok, let's forget all of that in character stuff in the game and focus solely on gameplay mechanics.

Do you agree with players being able to gank with impunity when someone comes to land on their carrier? Even better would be the carrier opening fire on anyone who retaliates. Does that seem like something that should be possible?

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

Ok, let's forget all of that in character stuff in the game and focus solely on gameplay mechanics.

Do you agree with players being able to gank with impunity when someone comes to land on their carrier? Even better would be the carrier opening fire on anyone who retaliates. Does that seem like something that should be possible?

The same burden would apply that people here are placing on the op. I. E. Just don't shoot the carrier and you'll be fine right?

The op said the carrier ignored being shot by police, but when he shot his own carrier he gets murdered.

Ganking scenarios aside, that seems problematic to me.

 

[galahad2069]

Oh, oh! Let me try, please!

You are Cmdr William Adama in command of the Battlestar Galactica which has just come under attack from Cylon Raiders. You order the launch of Colonial Vipers to engage the Cylons and defend the Battlestar. The Cylons perform strafing runs across the hull of the Battlestar, while Vipers attempt to destroy them. The Cylons use evasive maneuvers to avoid being shot, and as a result some of the Vipers' weapon shots hit the Battlestar Galactica herself, causing no damage.

Do you:

1. Ignore the shots from your own Vipers, because you know they are obviously not intentionally trying to destroy you?
2. Ignore the shots from your own Vipers, because you know their weapons can't harm you anyway?
3. Issue a warning to your own vipers to please be a bit more careful?
4. Destroy your own Vipers?
   1. (Bonus points if one of those vipers targeted for destruction actually has Cmdr William Adama himself in the pilot seat!)

In what reality (imagined, in-game, or otherwise) would option (4) be the best choice?

I was hit by stray shots, accidentally rammed, even shadowrammed by my own wingmates quite a few times during the many hundreds of wingfights I've participated in so far.

And even though my ship (unlike carriers) wasn't invulnerable to those stray shots and rams in the least, never once did the slightest idea of attacking my own wingmates cross my mind.

 

[Darth Silen]

After 3. Which is what happens.

If we're going to bring things that are invulnerable into it, let's look at our characters. Players shouldn't freak out over a rebuy for the same reason.

It would been more than a stray round as well.

I'm sorry but your wrong, i was there when it happened, the carrier was in the hostile system because its our 'home' system, we decided it would be fun to try and change the power dynamic of that system, this is why the system ended up hostile, I watched as the cops came and bombarded the OP in question whilst his ship sat on the carrier, they even stored the ship and still the cops persisted in firing apon the closed hatch, the OP then decided that they were tired of this constant attack and would engage the cops, funnily enough to roleplay protecting it, its not like they were any real threat after all so roleplay is all we have, they happily flew around fighting the cops no problem as more and more came in as back up, all fine, fun gameplay, the problem came when one of these cops whilst being fired apon decided to avoid the attack, or maybe they arnt that smart, they at least flew under the carrier, due to the constant battle the OP tracked the cop in question till it was out of site, realising last second that it had brought the carrier into the line of fire, the OP immediately ceased fire for fear of hitting the carrier, but it was too late, some multicannon rounds clipped the side of the carrier and it was game over, boom, no warning from the carrier to be careful, any sense of protecting the carrier was lost, the immersion was broken and questions then got raised, it was never about the rebuy cost, or that we didnt know that hitting the carrier would result in being fired apon, it was simply a case of their own carrier (fdev confirmed before you get pedantic on ownership) seemed more allied with the local authority than the player that owned it/controlled it, an authority that in our 'personal narrative' we were against and slowly reducing their hold on the system, this is why it was an annoying event, nothing to do with money lost, it was that our plans had been foiled by our own tools, we couldnt play the game in the way we were finding fun

 

[Dillon Fallon]

The same burden would apply that people here are placing on the op. I. E. Just don't shoot the carrier and you'll be fine right?

The op said the carrier ignored being shot by police, but when he shot his own carrier he gets murdered.

Ganking scenarios aside, that seems problematic to me.

No, the problem is the carrier owner can shoot you and you can't shoot the carrier owner without the carrier retaliating. Should there be a possibility of this scenario happening?

 

[Darth Silen]

If anyone is still looking at this post I think I need to clear a few things up as many have got the wrong idea and seem determined to remind the OP in question, sharp312, that what happened was his fault and he should stop moaning about 'just a rebuy', this is what happened put across a bit more clearly as at the time of the post, he was pretty annoyed so meaning got lost in the rant.
I was there when it happened, the carrier was in the hostile system because its our 'home' system, we decided it would be fun to try and change the power dynamic of that system, this is why the system ended up hostile, I watched as the cops came and bombarded the OP in question whilst his ship sat on the carrier, they even stored the ship and still the cops persisted in firing apon the closed hatch, the OP then decided that they were tired of this constant attack and would engage the cops, funnily enough to roleplay protecting it, its not like they were any real threat after all so roleplay is all we have, they happily flew around fighting the cops no problem as more and more came in as back up, all fine, fun gameplay, the problem came when one of these cops whilst being fired apon decided to avoid the attack, or maybe they arnt that smart, they at least flew under the carrier, due to the constant battle the OP tracked the cop in question till it was out of site, realising last second that it had brought the carrier into the line of fire, the OP immediately ceased fire for fear of hitting the carrier, but it was too late, some multicannon rounds clipped the side of the carrier and it was game over, boom, no warning from the carrier to be careful, any sense of protecting the carrier was lost, the immersion was broken and questions then got raised, it was never about the rebuy cost, or that we didnt know that hitting the carrier would result in being fired apon, it was simply a case of their own carrier (fdev confirmed before you get pedantic on ownership) seemed more allied with the local authority than the player that owned it/controlled it, an authority that in our 'personal narrative' we were against and slowly reducing their hold on the system, this is why it was an annoying event, nothing to do with money lost, it was that our plans had been foiled by our own tools, we couldnt play the game in the way we were finding fun

 

[Red Anders]

The Carrier should be playing "I Shot the owner, but I will not shoot the Deputy".

I personally think that the Carrier crew found themselves in an Apocalypse Now! situation, the CMDR was Kurtz, gone rogue.

Glad to see Capt Willard in this thread.

Because he shot killed a colonel? If so, great spot

(Had to amend the method of despatch, can't have a mistake that bad on my record lol. Embarassingly, it's probably my favourite film too.)

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

No, the problem is the carrier owner can shoot you and you can't shoot the carrier owner without the carrier retaliating. Should there be a possibility of this scenario happening?

I view that as being a low probability event. And one that we can address later if it comes up with some sort of mechanic. I leave it up to you to invent one for this situation.

The paramount concern is that something you buy (and it IS a purchase not a lease) can willfully turn it's guns on you and murder you indiscriminately as if you're any random CMDR. That can't, and shouldn't, happen.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I'm sorry but your wrong, i was there when it happened, the carrier was in the hostile system because its our 'home' system, we decided it would be fun to try and change the power dynamic of that system, this is why the system ended up hostile, I watched as the cops came and bombarded the OP in question whilst his ship sat on the carrier, they even stored the ship and still the cops persisted in firing apon the closed hatch, the OP then decided that they were tired of this constant attack and would engage the cops, funnily enough to roleplay protecting it, its not like they were any real threat after all so roleplay is all we have, they happily flew around fighting the cops no problem as more and more came in as back up, all fine, fun gameplay, the problem came when one of these cops whilst being fired apon decided to avoid the attack, or maybe they arnt that smart, they at least flew under the carrier, due to the constant battle the OP tracked the cop in question till it was out of site, realising last second that it had brought the carrier into the line of fire, the OP immediately ceased fire for fear of hitting the carrier, but it was too late, some multicannon rounds clipped the side of the carrier and it was game over, boom, no warning from the carrier to be careful, any sense of protecting the carrier was lost, the immersion was broken and questions then got raised, it was never about the rebuy cost, or that we didnt know that hitting the carrier would result in being fired apon, it was simply a case of their own carrier (fdev confirmed before you get pedantic on ownership) seemed more allied with the local authority than the player that owned it/controlled it, an authority that in our 'personal narrative' we were against and slowly reducing their hold on the system, this is why it was an annoying event, nothing to do with money lost, it was that our plans had been foiled by our own tools, we couldnt play the game in the way we were finding fun

I'll concede that the ship I was using had no place in combat and the damage threshold may be so low as to be irrelevant to engineered weapons.

Again though, were you change the rules for a carrier owner in an instance, do you create room for exploits, especially where you've already said you were killing off sys sec to damage a controlling faction's influence.