Odyssey trailer - thoughts?

[Rat Catcher]

I like reading your posts. They come across as measured, thought out, realistic and aren't expecting Odyssey to be 'everything or nothing'. Most of the time i agree, too.
My reply isn't adding much, I just wated to say that!

Thank you for your kind comment - if you could read my mind the story may be a little different as I'm champing at the bit to get into Odyssey and 'measured' would go out of the window

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Yamiks brought up the Anthem E3? demo for comparison LUL

I played Anthem demo, it was better than this ;-) And more beautiful.

 

[Wendake]

I'll probably have some fun messing around the FPS part but it's clearly not the reason why I pre-ordered Odyssey.

I'm more looking forward exploration, new planetary tech, players interactions, scavenging (still haven't seen any gameplay) and being able to walk on foot on planets and find biologicial stuff and really feel small near my ship.

They are promoting a lot the FPS part since it's what will bring more players to Odyssey and it's a clever marketing move. Odyssey won't be only FPS, It'll be a new way to interact with players with social hubs, new planets to explore, new professions and more things we haven't heard of.

So yes, seeing all this adding up on the actual great game that is ED is awesome.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I'll probably have some fun messing around the FPS part but it's clearly not the reason I pre-ordered Odyssey.

I'm more looking forward exploration, new planetary tech, players interactions, scavenging (still haven't seen any gameplay) and being able to walk on foot on planets and find biologicial stuff and really feel small near my ship.

They are promoting a lot the FPS part since it's what will bring more players to Odyssey and it's a clever marketing move. Odyssey won't be only FPS, It'll be a new way to interact with players with social hubs, new planets to explore, new professions and more things we haven't heard of.

So yes, seeing all this adding up on the actual great game that is ED is awesome.

I'll go along with all of the above! The FPS bit looks like 'fun' rather than 'terribly serious' and I look forward to discovering how many novel ways I am able to find myself at the 'rebuy' screen... The possibilities I've noted already from this snippet will keep me occupied for a while...

I'm also hoping we get 'introduced' to the new engineers during the alpha too... wondering if any of the mats collected but never having a use might suddenly be needed.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

1. The NPCs don't act smart, don't seek cover. - These were the lowest level AI available & the 0/1 guards did run when shot, only the 3 stood his ground
2. Lack of cover options makes the combat too simplistic (see Mass Effect). - I saw lots of cover & routes, but this scenario was so easy it wasn't needed
3. NPCs absorb bullets like sponges. That's not fun tactical FPS combat (check Call of Duty, Battlefield, Escape from Tarkov, PUBG). - The shields did hold up nicely, but the CMs almost never shot any guard after they dropped their shields - I did see one quick death after shields dropped
4. No cool interaction with the ship such as calling an elevator, escalator or walk up stairs to the door. - You mean like the 'enter hanger' animation'? Meh.
5. The Goliath was not a threat, they ran right past it. - That was a bit disappointing. I hope the Goliath accuracy scales in missions at proper military bases
6. The base turrets didn't work - Because they killed the power... did you understand the mission?
7. The sneaking around seemed to be unnecessary. Is there a sneak/detection system (see Metal Gear Solid, Deus Ex)? - Because they landed at a non-restricted site, had landing permission to land on a pad, weren't at the base of a hostile faction... did understand the mission?
8. No melee weapons is a pity - set phasers to stun would be a nice option - for unshielded victims
9. How much variety is there for base mission scenarios? - This was pretty well covered in the stream, which included reference to the number of different base layouts, different base types, mission variability... maybe watch the stream? Or read one of the summaries?
10. Add a transparency option to the HUD, in-game color customization. - You mean like the HUD customization for ships?
11. Add a prone option - Do we know this isn't available? We didn't see any crouching either, in this lowest level encounter.
12. It's weird how the piloted ship could land near the base (7:20) without being bombarded by anti-ship weaponry. - They initially landed at on a landing pad, with permission. The pickup was done after the team killed the power...
13. There should be NPC patrols around the base. - This was not a restricted access base, or high sec military base...
14. Poor anti-aliasing dates the graphics a lot
15. What about civilian NPC traffic around the base? Such as SRVs, NPCs walking around, ships landing and taking off. Let NPCs scan rocks, excavate stuff, move cargo, chit-chat etc. Each NPC should have a schedule with errands, chores. Add a barracks to provide NPC sleeping quarters. This is important to make the world feel alive. - That might be nice, and more relevant on larger/different base types, but for early pre-Alpha... there were NPCs walking about, but we didn't see enough to judge really. I'll criticise that when I've spent some time following NPCs around - not really content for a misdion stream.
16. Footprints aren't visible in the sand.
17. Walking animations should be improved.
18. The base needs large banners, holograms to distinguish it and to show who operates it. - That shows up on the HUD, and would take a lot of banner work... how many different BGS factions are there, how often do assets get flipped, can these bases be flipped?
19. Didn't see any new SRVs to protect the base - I don't recall new SRVs on the list for Odyssey, but wouldn't that be a nice surprise

It seeme like there's a fair bit of complete misunderstanding of what the mission shown on the stream was, which has lead to some pretty silly 'criticisms'. This looked like a 'mostly harmless' mission to deactivate the power on a nil-security, neutral surface installation, guarded by a bunch of Paul Blarts who ran away as soon as they took a hit.

I think we already know that this entry level stuff is necessary (not everyone is an experienced pilot, let alone marksman), and we already know that ship based missions & combat cover the full spectrum from Mostly Harmless to Thargoid.

Should we judge the ship combat opportunities in ED based on the difficulty level of being attacked by a Harmless pirate in a Viper at a High Res site? Or ship based mission complexity based on a Harmless data scan mission froma a public data source at an undefended settlement?

Some fair comments there.

Which makes me wonder, if I want to showcase my game, would I set difficulty levels at the lowest possible level that would impress nobody/make people drop to some of the above conclusions?

 

[Rat Catcher]

Which makes me wonder, if I want to showcase my game, would I set difficulty levels at the lowest possible level that would impress nobody/make people drop to some of the above conclusions?

Surely you would set the difficulty level at one where you would be likely to complete the mission?
Possibly exactly what the CMs did?

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Surely you would set the difficulty level at one where you would be likely to complete the mission?
Possibly exactly what the CMs did?

I don't know, if my game included impressive AI I would want to showcase that. It would certainly create excitement amongst FPS fans (which this clip was largely aimed at given the subject matter), and any concerns from a minority of players who may feel overwhelmed could be easily addressed by stating "it will be easier in more basic less well defended settlements" rather than the other way around aka "the AI will be better, promise!".

I'm being a bit mean here perhaps and the explanation may both be that a) it's WIP and will be improved and b) they're low level NPCs and therefore are behaving the way they did, but as a marketing exercise (which the clip clearly is) this kind of backfired imo.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I don't know, if my game included impressive AI I would want to showcase that. It would certainly create excitement amongst FPS fans (which this clip was largely aimed at given the subject matter), and any concerns from a minority of players who may feel overwhelmed could be easily addressed by stating "it will be easier in more basic less well defended settlements" rather than the other way around aka "the AI will be better, promise!".

I'm being a bit mean here perhaps and the explanation may both be that a) it's WIP and will be improved and b) they're low level NPCs and therefore are behaving the way they did, but as a marketing exercise (which the clip clearly is) this kind of backfired imo.

I'm actually agreeing with your observation, in the nicest possible way!
Had the demo been produced 'professionally', rather than by CMs who are certainly not as 'able' as many players here, then there is a possibility that the challenge given to the 'pros' could have been much higher...

Or, of course, the AI is very poor and we have just seen it the best it will ever be

 

[gooddoc]

Because the base turrets are supposed to be faster and more accurate. Automation is the future, that's why you have megacomplexes on moons in the middle of nowhere being guarded by Barney Fife in a vac suit.

Had to look up who Barney Fife was......& I would have been old enough to watch if I'd have lived in the States.........it didn't seem to make it in the UK, if it did I cetainly missed it.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I'm actually agreeing with your observation, in the nicest possible way!
Had the demo been produced 'professionally', rather than by CMs who are certainly not as 'able' as many players here, then there is a possibility that the challenge given to the 'pros' could have been much higher...

Or, of course, the AI is very poor and we have just seen it the best it will ever be

I just think they were probably more focused on giving a professional, smooth runthrough without respawns due to making mistakes - I wouldn't have actually minded those if they'd be the result of challenging gameplay, I welcome it despite being pretty average myself in general, something I realised over time trying various online genres (even those that I thought I'd be quite good at... I blame it on getting older).

 

[Ethaidan]

Some fair comments there.

Which makes me wonder, if I want to showcase my game, would I set difficulty levels at the lowest possible level that would impress nobody/make people drop to some of the above conclusions?

I reckon FDev were between a rock and a hard place with that decision. ED has a fantastically diverse player base ranging from hardcore space flight/exploration sim enthusiasts to hardcore FPS enthusiasts. We've been hearing for months from vocal representatives from different playstyles... boo on FPS in my Space Sim... FPS is alright but I'm rubbish at it... I can't wait to disembark and blast my way out of the DeathStar after disabling the tractor beam... So where do you pitch the first FPS combat reveal in a previously ship-based game? Entry level to not scare off FPS hesitants? Soloing a Cyclops to appeal to the Mandos? And of course... how good are FDevs in-house options for setting the bar any higher in a demo?

Personally, I'm not going to overly criticise the level of the showcased AI or mission difficulty, because I understand how mission & AI difficultly scales in ED. We have a pretty good live example with the existing ship-based missions and scenarios - from ridiculously easy to incredibly challenging. So why are so many long-time Cmdrs suddenly expecting a Harmless foot mission to represent the entire spectrum of mission challenges and AI capabiliity?

 

[Rat Catcher]

I just think they were probably more focused on giving a professional, smooth runthrough without respawns due to making mistakes - I wouldn't have actually minded those if they'd be the result of challenging gameplay, I welcome it despite being pretty average myself in general, something I realised over time trying various online genres (even those that I thought I'd be quite good at... I blame it on getting older).

I'd have been most happy had they presented us with their 'out-takes' as an Easter-Egg bonus - as we'd have gotten a better overall mind picture of what, and how, they were playing... Maybe if we make enough noise?

 

[fennster]

I don't know, if my game included impressive AI I would want to showcase that. It would certainly create excitement amongst FPS fans (which this clip was largely aimed at given the subject matter), and any concerns from a minority of players who may feel overwhelmed could be easily addressed by stating "it will be easier in more basic less well defended settlements" rather than the other way around aka "the AI will be better, promise!".

I'm being a bit mean here perhaps and the explanation may both be that a) it's WIP and will be improved and b) they're low level NPCs and therefore are behaving the way they did, but as a marketing exercise (which the clip clearly is) this kind of backfired imo.

It's my biggest put off from watching. Seeing the NPCs just run out into the open and stand there didn't view as compelling gameplay to me. At one point there was four of them lined up in a row, reminded me of duck hunt, maybe light guns will make a come back?

Never the less either way I'm sure it will be addressed, multiple times, before they get it right in the future.

 

[Ethaidan]

I just think they were probably more focused on giving a professional, smooth runthrough without respawns due to making mistakes - I wouldn't have actually minded those if they'd be the result of challenging gameplay, I welcome it despite being pretty average myself in general, something I realised over time trying various online genres (even those that I thought I'd be quite good at... I blame it on getting older).

Well, there's the rub... that was not a smooth run through, that was a compilation of clips from many attempts! Maybe that's as high as they could go with the time and gunslinger resources they had?

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I reckon FDev were between a rock and a hard place with that decision. ED has a fantastically diverse player base ranging from hardcore space flight/exploration sim enthusiasts to hardcore FPS enthusiasts. We've been hearing for months from vocal representatives from different playstyles... boo on FPS in my Space Sim... FPS is alright but I'm rubbish at it... I can't wait to disembark and blast my way out of the DeathStar after disabling the tractor beam... So where do you pitch the first Fps combat reveal in a previously ship-based game? Entry level to not scare off FPS hesitants? Soloing a Cyclops to appeal to the Mandos? And of course... how good are FDevs in-house options for setting the bar any higher in a demo?

Personally, I'm not going to overly criticise the level of the showcased AI or mission difficulty, because I understand how mission & AI difficultly scales in ED. We have a pretty good live example with the existing ship-based missions and scenarios - from ridiculously easy to incredibly challenging. So why are so many long-time Cmdrs suddenly expecting a Harmless foot mission to represent the entire spectrum of mission challenges and AI capabiliity?

I have an awful suspicion that the only difference between Harmless and Elite AI will be hitpoints and damage output, and very little in the form of behaviour. Still hope to be wrong but as you say, they need to cater to a wide array of players (and based on some comments around difficulty levels of combat in the main game, I can already foresee the mountains of salt Odyssey combat will generate) and the fact Elite doesn't have a difficulty setting we'll likely end up with a lowest common denominator setting that will please nobody.

I don't know... maybe there are more clips like this in the pipeline, I certainly hope so, but I would've probably started with what I described elsewhere first, the non-combat spacelegs moments that are going to tie the various game areas together. Simple walk through a settlement, a station, maybe some exploring, and a minute or two of combat as the cherry on top. Not focus an entire segment on one mission type. Just my 2c and I'm certainly no marketing expert, but it would've resonated with me more given the kind of game Elite is.

 

[Cosmo]

[*]The NPCs don't act smart, don't seek cover. - These were the lowest level AI available & the 0/1 guards did run when shot, only the 3 stood his ground [/LIST]

Their reactions during combat were wooden and goofy imo.

[*]Lack of cover options makes the combat too simplistic (see Mass Effect). - I saw lots of cover & routes, but this scenario was so easy it wasn't needed

Without a proper cover system (e.g. Wolfenstein TNO, Killzone or Mass Effect), the combat is a tad too simplistic imo. At least I didn't notice NPCs doing such. In the far future people forgot how to take cover?

[*]The base turrets didn't work - Because they killed the power...

In the far future they forgot about back up generators or portable batteries in case of power outage?

[*]The sneaking around seemed to be unnecessary. Is there a sneak/detection system (see Metal Gear Solid, Deus Ex)? - Because they landed at a non-restricted site, had landing permission to land on a pad, weren't at the base of a hostile faction...

So why did they act like they were sneaking around?

[*]How much variety is there for base mission scenarios? - This was pretty well covered in the stream, which included reference to the number of different base layouts, different base types, mission variability... maybe watch the stream? Or read one of the summaries?
[/COLOR]

That's insufficient details lol. Maybe increase your subpar standards?

[*]It's weird how the piloted ship could land near the base (7:20) without being bombarded by anti-ship weaponry. - They initially landed at on a landing pad, with permission. The pickup was done after the team killed the power...

The pickup was way too easy, and the security laughable for incoming ships.

[*]The base needs large banners, holograms to distinguish it and to show who operates it. - That shows up on the HUD, and would take a lot of banner work... how many different BGS factions are there, how often do assets get flipped, can these bases be flipped?

The fans could design banners, do a contest. Information on the HUD is insufficient. The base itself is too basic without such decorations.

I think we already know that this entry level stuff is necessary (not everyone is an experienced pilot, let alone marksman), and we already know that ship based missions & combat cover the full spectrum from Mostly Harmless to Thargoid.

Yeah this isn't the final launch version, but lots of people are kinda disappointed and worried that Frontier cannot raise the bar enough before release. This expansion will be compared to triple-A FPS. If it falls short in terms of depth, variety, gameplay then it won't do well.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Well, there's the rub... that was not a smooth run through, that was a compilation of clips from many attempts! Maybe that's as high as they could go with the time and gunslinger resources they had?

Right, well if that's what it was then... uhm.. no further comment.

Edit - I'm going to watch this again now, actually. Maybe it'll grow on me

 

[alexzk]

Not sure if you mentioned here already, but..

Many videos complain about "why NPC allow to walk on base at 1st place".
Well, because they landed in space port, that was not random "farm" place. You can see "refuel" buttons there, which means it is startport dock.
That's why ship flew away, so he would not be jailed on alarm.
And that opens many possibilities, they just powered off startport! Imagine you was docked in that and witnessed their invasion?

 

[Cosmo]

And that opens many possibilities, they just powered off startport! Imagine you was docked in that and witnessed their invasion?

Imagine all the personnel at a base not prepare for such a scenario with backup generators, batteries, sci-fi bazookas to shoot down illegal ships. Nah that is too difficult in the year 3307+.

Well, because they landed in space port, that was not random "farm" place. You can see "refuel" buttons there, which means it is startport dock.

Add animations of NPCs or droids refueling ships (add the illusion) to make the galaxy come alive? Nah the budget and team is too small for such details.

 

[alexzk]

Imagine all the personnel at a base not prepare for such a scenario with backup generators, batteries, sci-fi bazookas to shoot down illegal ships. Nah that is too difficult in the year 3307+.

It was legal initially, Jameson Memorial does not shoot you on sight. They docked as any normal citizens, then stole power cell.