The Mining discussion thread.

Good Idea?

  • Total voters
    7

harag

harag
I think it will be the latter and classed as stolen, unless you swoop in and scoop it up before the "owner" does.
 

Hawkmoon

H
Well the first problem the thief will have is that the newly mined ore will be almost worthless until it has been processed, the ore processor will be part of your mining kit and will separate the valuable minerals from the worthless junk. Going on ores on earth the ratio of mineral to rock could be a fraction of one percent, even if you were mining gold at 5% and a thief stole twenty tonnes of raw ore he would only end up with one tonne of gold. You are far more likely to get ambushed on your way back to a station to sell the minerals, just like the old prospectors during the gold rush, why steal a few hundred tonnes of ore when they can let you process it and then just steal the gold?
 

Karnak

K
harag said:
I think it will be the latter and classed as stolen, unless you swoop in and scoop it up before the "owner" does.
Click to expand...

That leads to the question, will scooping up ore mined by another player/NPC be an offense that allows the player/NPC to fire on you without incurring an offense?
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
harag said:
I think it will be the latter and classed as stolen, unless you swoop in and scoop it up before the "owner" does.
Click to expand...
If this is possible I can guarantee it'll lead to players doing exactly this. Either for profit or just because they can.

And no one will be able to stop them doing it besides racing to scoop it. Which wouldn't be a very fun or fair mechanic.

Eve had the issue of players loitering with intent to ninja cargo in space. It was a massive point of contention, though it only happened because the "owner" choose to leave cargo in space for others to scoop up, on mining runs.

I think mined fragments should have ownership for a period of time. If left too long it's free for anyone to scoop, or it should disintegrate. Stealing someone's mining haul would always be a crime. I don't see any benefit to game play in allowing the potential for other players to scoop it before the miner does, with impunity.

A pirate must force a player to give up their cargo by threat of force. Thus giving their prey the chance to refuse and then defend themselves if the pirate attempts to enforce their threat. If a pirate were able to simply swoop in and steal freshly mined ore, with the only penalty being it's flagged as stolen - or even worse, not even that - then it will happen. They may not be able to process it without a mining laser module. But they'll still do it. Because they can.

Might as well nip that in the bud and make it a crime, so it's a choice that pirates can attempt to enforce, keeping it within the current game design.
 

Morlock5K

M
Mining and Salvaging in Beta 3

Taken directly from this thread

"Low-life vultures picking the flesh off the dead" Salvage in Elite Dangerous
Hello lovely DDF backers!

I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas and a great start to the New Year!

So, thank you all very much for your comments on vouchers and micro transactions, and for your patience as we transitioned to Alpha!

But now it’s high time for a new topic, so here it is; salvage! It’s a relatively simple concept, but with some interesting potential (and potentially interesting issues). Enough with the preamble!

Salvage Rules



•Salvage specifically represents the ability to make money from the husks of ships and abandoned structures
•A ship husk/structure can be scanned using mining sensors to identify potentially valuable assets that can be mined from it

•This mimics standard mining
•Using mining equipment salvage chunks can be generated from the husk

•The mining equipment is used as if the husk/structure was an asteroid
•Each husk can only generate a finite number of resources, based on type and a hidden quality value
•Each husk can only receive a finite amount of damage from attacks or mining before it is completely destroyed, or in the case of larger structures, ruined (no more mining possible)
•Salvage chunks can be scooped or collected by drones as long as the commander has the cargo space and empty cargo canisters
•Salvage is generally low value, however, occasionally a salvage chunk may be special:

•Rare and valuable materials can be contained in a salvage chunk, dramatically increasing its value.
•Mission/event critical information can be contained in a salvage chunk
•Dangerous contaminants may be contained within a salvage chunk
•Scanning a salvage chunk or salvage canister will reveal such additional elements
Salvaging and the law


•The act of salvaging within a jurisdiction is normally (but not always) a crime, and can be witnessed and reported by NPC ships
•There is a chance that a salvage chunk might contain information identifying the ship or structure it came from

•The more salvage chunks obtained from a single source, the greater the chance that one of them will contain such information
•If the salvage chunk was obtained illegally (from a jurisdiction) such canisters are considered stolen goods

•A salvage chunk or salvage chunk canister must be scanned with a cargo scanner to reveal this information, otherwise it is simply described as “un-scanned salvage”
•Commanders may purchase system salvaging permits whilst docked from authority factions, allowing them to legally salvage within that faction’s jurisdiction in the system

•Not all docks can offer this administrative service
•Not all systems offer this service
•Permits are transitory and game-time based

Salvaging and ship death


•When a ship is destroyed it may leave behind a husk

•The chance of a husk being left is decreased based on excess damage from the killing blow and technical limitations
•Such a husk can be salvaged

•Ship husks may be removed from a session based on technical requirements

Salvaging and the background simulation


•The chance of ship husks and structures being generated is affected by various factors:

•Levels of piracy
•Conflict
•Hazardous environments
•In addition, some events can be entirely salvage based, such as the husk of a large interdictor vessel being present at a location for a length of time

Hopefully this is a refreshing return to good old game mechanics; I’d love to hear your opinions on them.

One of the issues we have been discussing is the potential for unwanted wealth generation thanks to player ships potentially yielding salvage. Do you guys think this is worth worrying about?

It’s also worth noting that this system is separate from cargo, which may be ejected from ships, though not particularly when they are destroyed. This is one of the main reasons that salvaging is not particularly profitable or efficient – I don’t want to make it a path of least resistance: the pirate collects cargo from their prey then boils them anyway for additional salvage loot. Do you think this might still be a cause for concern?

Finally, what magic have we missed and what other blunders are we walking into? I wait with baited breath!

Start mining!
Click to expand...


After reading the above I'm even more excited for mining. Does anyone know if we will be able to start salvaging in Beta 3 with the addition of the mining laser. The above seems to suggest it could do. Also interested to see what systems will be offering the mentioned salvage license, this is great as it offers yet another role to play in the galaxy. Also I was wondering how long a license to salvage will last or will it be usuable to a total tonnage. Just a few thoughts, please add any further ideas.
 

Grinchy

Grinchy
Not a big fan of salvaging counting as stolen goods... maybe your just returning it to the owner for a reward? Or just eco mad, and cleaning is your right! ;)
And what if a miner is blasting rocks, and leaves behind valuable minerals for whatever reason... if you scoop the fruits of his labor, is that also classed as stolen?
 
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hobblygobbly

hobblygobbly
Grinchy said:
Not a big fan of salvaging counting as stolen goods... maybe your just returning it to the owner for a reward? Or just eco mad, and cleaning is your right! ;)
And what if a miner is blasting rocks, and leaves behind valuable minerals for whatever reason... if you scoop the fruits of his labor, is that also classed as stolen?
Click to expand...

I agree. I feel that items in space should go down into two different categories, stolen and salvaged. The factors to determine when an item in space is categorised can be a number of things, from the basic elapsed time in space left untouched by the owner to NPCs/Players being able to mark their cannisters as "free for all" based on some other factors. Perhaps one needs to jettison cargo and doesn't mind who takes it, why should this be considered at stolen? I believe it can open up some more gameplay areas to be created that wouldn't otherwise exist. Does a jurisdiction lay claim by default if something is not in possession of its owner and therefore it's considered stolen because at that point its the ownership of the jurisdiction?
 

Grinchy

Grinchy
The system works well with piracy though, if you took away jettisoned cargo as non stolen, there would be a lot more pirates out there.
Would be funny if a pirate could demand credits that you could jettison rather than your cargo... a bribe of sorts :p
 
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Morlock5K

M
I think there should be a count down on salvaging goods and minerals, something like an hour, this give adequate time for the person who dumped the load or got their ship blown up, to return to the site and reclaim what they can. If something has been floating around for ages then it should become fair game.
 

Rhaedas

Rhaedas
I doubt that objects will persist that long, but also don't think they need to be that long, as at some point in the less anarchy systems law enforcement will come to the victim's aid, so the pirate won't be able to just wait out the timer to grab the cargo safe from being marked as stolen. Mining products should have a smaller timer, both so someone can claim rejected material before it disappears. It would be a different niche, some who processes the lesser yielding ores, but also doesn't have a lot invested in the tools, as they scavenge off others' work, legally or not.
 

Sgt Doom

Sgt Doom
Doubt anyone other than the devs knows the full details yet. The devs weren't particularly descriptive about exploration mechanics, either. It's presumably as simple as scan asteroid to determine content, blast with laser to break chunks off it, collect chunks with cargo scoop; and therefore any ship that can fit the mining laser can do it.
 

Vandaahl

Vandaahl
;)
seagulls-mine-300x300.jpg
 

Facerafter

F
As seen from screenshots, there will be mining lasers.
And im asuming that its a module you can fit on your ship.
So every ship who can fit the module can mine.
 

TranZdog

T
I thought you would find the rock, scan it, select the pick you wanted to use, get out of your ship and hack away at the rock and put the rock in the trunk....


I might be wrong though
 
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