Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Ed02349]

so release 1.0 gold next week? Yay about time CiG, looking forward to the finished game and its reviews

What? Really? Is this true? No more two more years?

Chris Roberts and his family take "about ten percent" of all incoming revenue .... Does that include external investment ?? If so, the CRoberts Tribe have skimmed off roughly $40 Million .... Over (almost) 10 Years ..... $4 million a year isnt a bad gig, no wonder they are in no hurry to release the game

He needs all he can get, neither of them (CR & SG) are likely to find jobs they're competent in. I'm not even trying to be mean, their employment history speaks for itself.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Aka you intentionally lied for some unknown reason.

That's one hell of a way to treat someone.

We all know what the story is with these capital ships, we all know they don't have interiors in these events, i'm not going to word everything i write in a way to appease some fascistic policing of this thread.
If you can't get along with me i suggest you block me because i'm not going to be bullied by people like you.

 

[VR Golgot]

It’s not fascistic to insist on factual accuracy.

When it comes to items sold for thousands of dollars, it’s a public service

The Javelin is sold for $3000. Its advertising bumph says it holds a max crew of 80. The current server maximum is 50. The proposed functionality cannot be supported by the game.

The Bengal interiors have been shown in various glossy mock ups since the initial Kickstarter in 2012. It is now 2021, and the best they can support in the game is an empty shell.

They’re putting the best that they can achieve into the game right now for the sales event, and it’s nowhere near the sales blurb. It’s perfectly reasonable to assume that they might never achieve that sales blurb. That the Bengal may not trundle around with its enormous interior rendered, holding 755 crew...

Just write 'Is supposed to have' instead of 'has'. Or 'might have'. Or ‘may get', or whatever. Reflect reality.

Every time you don’t the majority of the thread is gonna come knocking. Because this crap matters when it’s being monetised. Your call.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Whatever you might say about Star Citizen vs Elite, in my opinion SC does the ships better.
The ridiculous scale of Elite's cockpits always make them look a bit weird,
and if I compare the Herc @Mole HD showed us with, say, a Type 9, I would always chose the Star Citizen ships.
Can't we just merge them? The game from Elite and the looks from SC ?

Star Dangerous?

Elite Citizen?

Oh, that latter one would make sense considering the prices of ships.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Just in case that gets misinterpreted it means in the UK there are laws that forced CIG to be open about their financials development coz thats what it takes apparently to find out where the money went

Remember when CIG said they were going to be open about their financials?

It appears that turned out to mean simply showing how much money backers have given them, not the full picture.

 

[Intrepid3D]

It’s not fascistic to insist on factual accuracy.

When it comes to items sold for thousands of dollars, it’s a public service

The Javelin is sold for $3000. Its advertising bumph says it holds a max crew of 80. The current server maximum is 50. The proposed functionality cannot be supported by the game.

The Bengal interiors have been shown in various glossy mock ups since the initial Kickstarter in 2012. It is now 2021, and the best they can support in the game is an empty shell.

They’re putting the best that they can achieve into the game right now for the sales event, and it’s nowhere near the sales blurb. It’s perfectly reasonable to assume that they might never achieve that sales blurb. That the Bengal may not trundle around with its enormous interior rendered, holding 755 crew...

Just write 'Is supposed to have' instead of 'has'. Or 'might have'. Or ‘may get', or whatever. Reflect reality.

Every time you don’t the majority of the thread is gonna come knocking. Because this crap matters when it’s being monetised. Your call.

No PC, no Hardware can support the amount of data contained with in a 1KM ship, even if or when all this pans out your PC will not have to, even if or when these ship's have their interior in game it will not be there for you when you're looking at it from the outside, or even on the inside, from your computers perspective the only thing its rendering is what you can see.

You're thinking this is nothing new, you're right it isn't, but the Gen12 render, Vulkan is much more efficient, much better at doing this.

 

[Factabulous]

Vulkan is much more efficient, much better at doing this

Where is LittleAnt? He loved Vulkan

 

[ECity]

Whatever you might say about Star Citizen vs Elite, in my opinion SC does the ships better.

It's easier to do ships when you don't have to engineer a video game that they work in. And $400,000,000 also makes it easier.

you keep your dirty modes ... off of my star citizen

There should be an interesting community reaction if the Agent's starter non-PvP area rumor is true.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Where is LittleAnt? He loved Vulkan

I don't know who that is,
As a side; if you were to refer to what Species Spock is that's Vulcan, with a C.

Vulkan is an agnostic graphics API developed originally by AMD, it was originally called "Mantle" AMD gave it to the Khronos Group to further develop it as an agnostic alternative to the utterly crap and very aged DX11.

 

[VR Golgot]

No PC, no Hardware can support the amount of data contained with in a 1KM ship, even if or when all this pans out your PC will not have to, even if or when these ship's have their interior in game it will not be there for you when you're looking at it from the outside, or even on the inside, from your computers perspective the only thing its rendering is what you can see.

You're thinking this is nothing new, you're right it isn't, but the Gen12 render, Vulkan is much more efficient, much better at doing this.

How CIG might support giant player-piloted capital ships with huge working interiors in the PU is relatively immaterial to the point at hand. IE:

• They’ve pre-sold that reality
• They haven’t achieved that reality
• Using language that suggests they have is dubious

(PS Vulkan support will not make a working player Javelin as advertised a reality. Just throwing that out there )

 

[MTBFritz]

Chris Roberts and his family take "about ten percent" of all incoming revenue .... Does that include external investment ?? If so, the CRoberts Tribe have skimmed off roughly $40 Million .... Over (almost) 10 Years ..... $4 million a year isnt a bad gig, no wonder they are in no hurry to release the game

The personal enrichment before release already is a gigantic red flag but combined with everything we know about the project there really isnt a doubt in my mind as to what exactly we are looking at. The only question is (and has been for years) as to WHEN the project transitioned from an honest attempt to what it currently is or if it started out as that all along.

I mean is there anybody out there who d be surprised if CiG announced failure and bankruptcy a month from now? Someone who wouldnt say "the writing was on the wall all along"? On the other hand sudden news of a gold release would surprise probably everybody...thats how far off course Star Citizen is in terms of development progress.

A conspiracy would require stuff like "organisation", and "planning"...

Come to think of it....that might very well be the case and is not particularly outlandish a thought.

It’s not fascistic to insist on factual accuracy.

I made the mistake to confuse demands for accuracy as personal attacks myself in the past but hope to have grown out of that. I even go so far as to admit that tho I write walls of text my mastery of the written word is mediocre at best, why else would I NEED to write that many words to begin with? So accuracy is important and disregarding it on the assumption that "everybody knows better" doesnt change the fact that it might summon discrepancies (why else do you think SC expectations have become so freakish as they are? Because of CiGs year-long behavior pattern to be maximally vague). So corrections or demands for accuracy should be allowed and met, its not some "agenda" of this thread, its how it was for the longest time.

That being said theres this disruptive pattern called "trolling" where people mince words or argue technicalities which dont further the discussion besides generating more hot air. I hate those. If you were inaccurate accept the correction and move on or maybe try to incorporate a more accurate expression in the future. If you are being trolled report or ignore. I "get" that its not always possible to ignore childish jibes and snides or tolerate people who just want to be jerks. This is the world we live in tho /sigh

It's easier to do ships when you don't have to engineer a video game that they work in. And $400,000,000 also makes it easier.

And on that account, if CiGs sole goal is to "make things better than ED" then frankly...I m not impressed. I d be able to admire SC ships as being "nice" or "cool looking" but I wouldnt say they are better because....what ED did and is doing is so much more difficult and impressive than just making nice pictures and textures. The proposed game the world is waiting on, the thing that makes SC stand out...that is still missing and nowhere in sight. The best we can do right now is catch a glimpse sometimes of future possibilities but even that is only possible if you are very VERY generous with your interpretations and tolerance. The more you demand hard facts and reality...the smaller SC becomes.

 

[Intrepid3D]

How CIG might support giant player-piloted capital ships with huge working interiors in the PU is relatively immaterial to the point at hand. IE:

• They’ve pre-sold that reality
• They haven’t achieved that reality
• Using language that suggests they have is dubious

(PS Vulkan support will not make a working player Javelin as advertised a reality. Just throwing that out there )

Many game developments are started and never completed due to difficulty and / or a lack of funds, they never see the light of day and you might never know about them.

Star Citizen is one of those projects that is extremely complex and expensive, CIG didn't exist until the project started, it didn't have any of its own money and it never would have been attempted under an existing publisher such as EA or Ubisoft because of the complexity and expense.

But it is not impossible, the technology to make it happen exists, what it needs is a lot of middle aged space nerds with deep pockets to support it, it has that and its their choice to support it.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Star Citizen is one of those projects that is extremely complex and expensive, CIG didn't exist until the project started, it didn't have any of its own money and it never would have been attempted under an existing publisher such as EA or Ubisoft because of the complexity and expense.

But it is not impossible, the technology to make it happen exists, what it needs is a lot of middle aged space nerds with deep pockets to support it, it has that and its their choice to support it.

Perhaps EA or Ubisoft and likewise publishers would not touch thing even with long stick because...well Chris Roberts, and due to fact that many of things Chris promised would be actually impossible to do with current or near future commodity hardware. You know those publishers DO know something about game development and its limitations.

 

[cigwatch]

No PC, no Hardware can support the amount of data contained with in a 1KM ship, even if or when all this pans out your PC will not have to, even if or when these ship's have their interior in game it will not be there for you when you're looking at it from the outside, or even on the inside, from your computers perspective the only thing its rendering is what you can see.

You're thinking this is nothing new, you're right it isn't, but the Gen12 render, Vulkan is much more efficient, much better at doing this.

I am slowly getting lost in the argument you are making. I think plenty of people here will understand what streaming or culling means. There are reasons for those techniques -memory management in various forms has been with us since the dawn of computer entertainment and it is a fascinating technical area on its own.

But that is not the point. And before you read the rest, please be assured it is not an attack on your person, it is an attempt at accuracy. And if you find anything I said lacking it - please go ahead and point it out.

CIG sold something with the promise they can implement it in the future. Over the years they have kept earning tens of millions of dollars each year riding mostly on these promises (let's not fool ourselves, most of CIG's income comes from dream.txt, not from the actual game as it is). Are you saying what they were selling for years is impossible?

And, if they knowingly sold something they knew they could not deliver (that would not be the first time), what would you call such practice?

This is why so many people became so bitter about CIG and SC. And this is why some people's detectors are turning red at a smallest whiff of someone channeling the way they communicate. There is no reason to talk about "as it is intended" or "flyable" or any kind of "it is planned". This will make people call you out pretty fast. The amount of dishonesty and mistrust CIG generated around themselves over the last decade is only on them. Not on you, not on the person who is asking you to be accurate.

On them.

No need to help them spread the creep even further.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Perhaps EA or Ubisoft and likewise publishers would not touch thing even with long stick because...well Chris Roberts, and due to fact that many of things Chris promised would be actually impossible to do with current or near future commodity hardware. You know those publishers DO know something about game development and its limitations.

A lot of things said by people to be "impossible" turned out not to be.

Nothing about Star Citizen is impossible, extremely difficult, yes, pushing technology to its limits, yes but the technology is there.

 

[cigwatch]

the technology to make it happen exists

This is a really strong claim.

 

[ECity]

Many game developments are started and never completed due to difficulty and / or a lack of funds, they never see the light of day and you might never know about them.

Chris Roberts was lying from the moment the project started (lied about what the Crytek demo was, lied about who Sandi was, gave his incompetent wife part of the money being pledged, etc.). And the game Chris describes can't be made. It's a scam and was a scam from the start.

 

[Intrepid3D]

I am slowly getting lost in the argument you are making. I think plenty of people here will understand what streaming or culling means. There are reasons for those techniques -memory management in various forms has been with us since the dawn of computer entertainment and it is a fascinating technical area on its own.

But that is not the point. And before you read the rest, please be assured it is not an attack on your person, it is an attempt at accuracy. And if you find anything I said lacking it - please go ahead and point it out.

CIG sold something with the promise they can implement it in the future. Over the years they have kept earning tens of millions of dollars each year riding mostly on these promises (let's not fool ourselves, most of CIG's income comes from dream.txt, not from the actual game as it is). Are you saying what they were selling for years is impossible?

And, if they knowingly sold something they knew they could not deliver (that would not be the first time), what would you call such practice?

This is why so many people became so bitter about CIG and SC. And this is why some people's detectors are turning red at a smallest whiff of someone channeling the way they communicate. There is no reason to talk about "as it is intended" or "flyable" or any kind of "it is planned". This will make people call you out pretty fast. The amount of dishonesty and mistrust CIG generated around themselves over the last decade is only on them. Not on you, not on the person who is asking you to be accurate.

On them.

No need to help them spread the creep even further.

Perhaps we might gain a better understand of each other if you define or expand on what you mean by "Impossible"

 

[Intrepid3D]

This is a really strong claim.

You're the one making the assertions, explain them.

 

[VR Golgot]

Many game developments are started and never completed due to difficulty and / or a lack of funds, they never see the light of day and you might never know about them.

Yes but they didn’t raise $357,556,706 from players in the process. That’s the difference.

Dreaming big on a project is one thing. Making it your pre-order sales pitch is another.

Come on man, this SC 101.

But it is not impossible, the technology to make it happen exists, what it needs is a lot of middle aged space nerds with deep pockets to support it, it has that and its their choice to support it.

Neither you nor CIG know that. That is part of the problem with the pre-selling.

There is no precedent for an MMO using twitch gameplay supporting 1000s of players concurrently. There is no precedent for large mobile maps the size of the Javelin being piloted by players and engaging others in the same. CIG have genuinely pre-sold 'never been done before' functionality.

And they’re still yet to achieve any of those benchmarks.

The reasons for that are interesting, but that is the simple reality which sits in front of us. And which SC statements of facts are best based upon. What they’ve managed to do, not what they say they’ll do...