I don't like the new ice worlds.
- Thread starter jammedhamed
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Oh man that background. When will Elite have actual space with gazillions of stars instead of a few white dots here and there?Anybody find any worlds that look like this?
Disclaimer - this is NOT a picture from Frontier, but it is something (IRL Pluto) that would call to me and my wallet like a siren
These are nice pictures, I'll give you that, though I'm not sure how I feel about the generic "lumpiness" under your ship in the second picture. There is still many parts of planet surface generation where it just feels like an algorithmic height map rather than a formation from geological processes. On the other hand, it's still very impressive feat to pull off in a procgen universe, so credit where credit is due.And I just sat and watched sunset turn to twilight on HMC that looked very similar to that by approaching at an oblique angle to the light.
You know what I like most about your shots? That 60 fps!
This is a shot I took the other day. Think it's more or less the same when it comes to details etc.
Nice
One question, do your footprints work? Mine didn't, then I remembered something about changing graphics settings and toggled my settings to a preset (because I'm too lazy to go hunting for the file and wanted the game to reset them for me). After that footprints etc started working and it looked a bit better. Still graphical glitches, mind you, but better.
Here's a few I've just taken at a 'boring' ice-planet. I was interested in seeing if I could replicate the claim in the dev videos that you could identify and fly to distinct geological features in the landscape that are visible from orbit.
Here are a few shots of me doing the reverse of that; flying away from an 'ice-flow' feature that you should be able to clearly see in each image. The screenshots range from 16km up to >500km.
I haven't tried to fancy anything up in an artistic sense - and I didn't go looking for a special planet. I'm quite impressed actually...
[Hmmm... all my images disappeared. Does anybody know if this is a common problem on the forums?]
Here are a few shots of me doing the reverse of that; flying away from an 'ice-flow' feature that you should be able to clearly see in each image. The screenshots range from 16km up to >500km.
I haven't tried to fancy anything up in an artistic sense - and I didn't go looking for a special planet. I'm quite impressed actually...
[Hmmm... all my images disappeared. Does anybody know if this is a common problem on the forums?]
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That's already been in Horizons, not sure why they placed so much emphasis on it for Odyssey. And in Horizons there was much less pop-in
There was this one part from one of the earlier dev dairies where they showed one of the ice world surfaces from the cockpit of a chieftain.
Has anyone ever seen anything like that so far?
The light reflection on many of these Ice Worlds looks a bit off to me. Hard to pin point what it is, but they look like melted plastic when directly reflecting the sun, not scattering.
These are pictures (not mine) with the sun in a similar position as many of the screenshots.
And here are are a couple pictures posted in this very thread as "good examples" of Ice Worlds, the reflections still look like melted plastic to me, and not how the sun would actually reflect on ice.
Sure, some of these are good screenshots, but the light's reflection is awkward at best. Not to mention they are very, very dark. Scattering reflection on an icy surface should increase the brightness of the whole surface by a lot!
In all my hiking around Switzerland, including through glaciers and mountain climbing on the Alps, I guess that melted look is somewhat relatable sometimes at the end of winter and when there's strong winds, which blurry landscapes very slightly. A very rare sight and unlikely to be present on full and permanent Ice Worlds. Yet in Odyssey it's present in almost all ice screenshots I've seen. Reflections should in fact look sharper, as there's mostly surface scattering and less atmosphere scattering, as they are very thin.
These are pictures (not mine) with the sun in a similar position as many of the screenshots.
And here are are a couple pictures posted in this very thread as "good examples" of Ice Worlds, the reflections still look like melted plastic to me, and not how the sun would actually reflect on ice.
JAROJINANH system, JAROJINANH 6 E planet
That was from alpha, ice crater on different planet.
Sure, some of these are good screenshots, but the light's reflection is awkward at best. Not to mention they are very, very dark. Scattering reflection on an icy surface should increase the brightness of the whole surface by a lot!
In all my hiking around Switzerland, including through glaciers and mountain climbing on the Alps, I guess that melted look is somewhat relatable sometimes at the end of winter and when there's strong winds, which blurry landscapes very slightly. A very rare sight and unlikely to be present on full and permanent Ice Worlds. Yet in Odyssey it's present in almost all ice screenshots I've seen. Reflections should in fact look sharper, as there's mostly surface scattering and less atmosphere scattering, as they are very thin.
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Yep, Europa looks similarAnybody find any worlds that look like this?
Disclaimer - this is NOT a picture from Frontier, but it is something (IRL Pluto) that would call to me and my wallet like a siren
I've been with the game since the beginning (and I'm certainly no great fan of this expansion) but this was never really in Horizons.
Horizons always feels as if it is morphing between wildly different terrain maps as you descend or climb through different altitudes - so it's often difficult (and mostly impossible) to pick a feature from space and watch it believably resolve as you approach and then land on the surface. To me, 'pop-in' on a descent was much more evident before Odyssey.
In actuality, I still prefer the look of Horizons planets from outer space. Considering the fact that Odyssey's 'improvements' also come with a horrendous drag on performance, some truly horrible lighting problems and a flickering starfield that drives me nuts (not to mention countless new bugs, shallow new game features and a general lack of polish) then I can see why people are peeved.
However, I just thought that I'd try to find something positive...
[still can't attach any screenshots though]
Loharii A 5 A. First icy planet I arrived at after getting home and finishing downloading the update.
Looks good to me.
In fact, I'd say this is damn close to the Frontier promo images.
And look, it's the same lighting conditions (star near horizon, just out of shot at the top of frame).
Lets get a little closer.
Lots of detail. Notice how the shadows cast by the low "sun" throw the many complex surface details into stark relief.
Lets land in a fairly boring area, so I won't be accused of cherry-picking pretty scenes.
The low star causes shadows to form not only behind my character, not only in the hollows in the ground, but behind every ripple, every warp and weft of the terrain at the micro scale. Shaders, I guess, but the ground "detail" is apparent because one side of everything, including every little bump and crease, is in shadow.
You can't see it well in the screenshot, but the land under the sun from my perspective is glittering and twinkling dazzlingly as the oblique rays are bounced by tiny ice crystals (or shaders approximating their effect) straight into the "camera".
So lets go elsewhere on the same planet, where the sun is directly overhead.
Aaaaand...
Well, actually, there's a ton of detail here as well. Dammit!
But you'll agree, it isn't nearly as visible and dramatic here at noon as it is in the late afternoon/evening area of the planet, because the overhead star is casting little-to-no shadow to make the whitish-on-whitish details of the ice planet stand out.
Here it is on the human scale.
Still looks cool -- maybe I did choose a particularly nice planet purely by accident -- but notice how all the surface details are "filled in" by the overhead sun. There is very little contrast and appearance of detail. The "soil" is pale in colour, the "stones" and "lumps" are just slightly different shades of pale, there are no shadows to break it up because the sun is shining down into every nook and cranny... how else can it possibly look?
Is there more FDev can do to make planets look better under direct overhead sunlight? Probably. (Though on close inspection, they look pretty decent here too.)
But have FDev "lied" to us, as some have suggested? No, I don't think so.
What's happening is they took all their promo images with the sun low in the sky (which represents most of the sunlit surface btw), where the planets look their best.
Players testing out the new planetary system are arriving hot from the star (having just jumped into a system, we arrive at the star, and therefore approach planets from the direction of the light source), and they're landing at the first place they see, which is almost always noon at the planet's equator. Where it just so happens the planets (quite realistically) look their most boring.
Hopefully this illustrates what I've been trying to say about taking into account the lighting conditions when comparing promotional images to gameplay and crying scandal.
You need to compare like with like.
Looks good to me.
In fact, I'd say this is damn close to the Frontier promo images.
And look, it's the same lighting conditions (star near horizon, just out of shot at the top of frame).
Lets get a little closer.
Lots of detail. Notice how the shadows cast by the low "sun" throw the many complex surface details into stark relief.
Lets land in a fairly boring area, so I won't be accused of cherry-picking pretty scenes.
The low star causes shadows to form not only behind my character, not only in the hollows in the ground, but behind every ripple, every warp and weft of the terrain at the micro scale. Shaders, I guess, but the ground "detail" is apparent because one side of everything, including every little bump and crease, is in shadow.
You can't see it well in the screenshot, but the land under the sun from my perspective is glittering and twinkling dazzlingly as the oblique rays are bounced by tiny ice crystals (or shaders approximating their effect) straight into the "camera".
So lets go elsewhere on the same planet, where the sun is directly overhead.
Aaaaand...
Well, actually, there's a ton of detail here as well. Dammit!
But you'll agree, it isn't nearly as visible and dramatic here at noon as it is in the late afternoon/evening area of the planet, because the overhead star is casting little-to-no shadow to make the whitish-on-whitish details of the ice planet stand out.Here it is on the human scale.
Still looks cool -- maybe I did choose a particularly nice planet purely by accident -- but notice how all the surface details are "filled in" by the overhead sun. There is very little contrast and appearance of detail. The "soil" is pale in colour, the "stones" and "lumps" are just slightly different shades of pale, there are no shadows to break it up because the sun is shining down into every nook and cranny... how else can it possibly look?
Is there more FDev can do to make planets look better under direct overhead sunlight? Probably. (Though on close inspection, they look pretty decent here too.)
But have FDev "lied" to us, as some have suggested? No, I don't think so.
What's happening is they took all their promo images with the sun low in the sky (which represents most of the sunlit surface btw), where the planets look their best.
Players testing out the new planetary system are arriving hot from the star (having just jumped into a system, we arrive at the star, and therefore approach planets from the direction of the light source), and they're landing at the first place they see, which is almost always noon at the planet's equator. Where it just so happens the planets (quite realistically) look their most boring.
Hopefully this illustrates what I've been trying to say about taking into account the lighting conditions when comparing promotional images to gameplay and crying scandal.
You need to compare like with like.
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The light reflection on many of these Ice Worlds looks a bit off to me. Hard to pin point what it is, but they look like melted plastic when directly reflecting the sun, not scattering.
These are pictures (not mine) with the sun in a similar position as many of the screenshots.
And here are are a couple pictures posted in this very thread as "good examples" of Ice Worlds, the reflections still look like melted plastic to me, and not how the sun would actually reflect on ice.
Sure, some of these are good screenshots, but the light's reflection is awkward at best. Not to mention they are very, very dark. Scattering reflection on an icy surface should increase the brightness of the whole surface by a lot!
In all my hiking around Switzerland, including through glaciers and mountain climbing on the Alps, I guess that melted look is somewhat relatable sometimes at the end of winter and when there's strong winds, which blurry landscapes very slightly. A very rare sight and unlikely to be present on full and permanent Ice Worlds. Yet in Odyssey it's present in almost all ice screenshots I've seen. Reflections should in fact look sharper, as there's mostly surface scattering and less atmosphere scattering, as they are very thin.
I suspect there's intention behind it. Likely that these ice planets are very cold and low atmosphere, and the ice is essentially these planets' solid geology (in the same way that stone and quartz and whatnot is ours) rather something that has fallen as snow to form a powder or impacted matte ice containing lots of air.
So I'd expect it to look different to ice caps on Earth.
However, I'd love to see more stuff like what you posted regardless.
Exactly. Unless they're deliberately going for a low contrast look.
Or shooting in near infra red.
Those are really nice. But it's not just the angle of the sun. It really feels like different CMDRs are getting totally different graphical experiences based on screenshots I've seen. Maybe it's the settings, though if a CMDR uses low quality settings and then complains "This looks terrible", well then that's obviously on them. I think it's something else. For example, in your shots everything is very sharp and well-defined. It looks like a nice, high-def image. Also, notice how nice the shadow is coming off your character. I've seen many photos and videos where that shadow is blurry and disconnected, like a blurry Peter Pan shadow. I mean, looking at your photos, it almost feels like an entirely different game than some of the other photos and videos I've seen.Loharii A 5 A. First icy planet I arrived at after getting home and finishing downloading the update.
Looks good to me.
View attachment 229467
In fact, I'd say this is damn close to the Frontier promo images.
And look, it's the same lighting conditions (star near horizon, just out of shot at the top of frame).
Lets get a little closer.
View attachment 229470
Lots of detail. Notice how the shadows cast by the low "sun" throw the many complex surface details into stark relief.
Lets land in a fairly boring area, so I won't be accused of cherry-picking pretty scenes.
View attachment 229471
The low star causes shadows to form not only behind my character, not only in the hollows in the ground, but behind every ripple, every warp and weft of the terrain at the micro scale. Shaders, I guess, but the ground "detail" is apparent because one side of everything, including every little bump and crease, is in shadow.
You can't see it well in the screenshot, but the land under the sun from my perspective is glittering and twinkling dazzlingly as the oblique rays are bounced by tiny ice crystals (or shaders approximating their effect) straight into the "camera".
So lets go elsewhere on the same planet, where the sun is directly overhead.
Aaaaand...
View attachment 229474
Well, actually, there's a ton of detail here as well. Dammit!
View attachment 229475
Here it is on the human scale.
View attachment 229477
Still looks cool -- maybe I did choose a particularly nice planet purely by accident -- but notice how all the surface details are "filled in" by the overhead sun. There is very little contrast and appearance of detail. The "soil" is pale in colour, the "stones" and "lumps" are just slightly different shades of pale, there are no shadows to break it up because the sun is shining down into every nook and cranny... how else can it possibly look?
View attachment 229479
Is there more FDev can do to make planets look better under direct overhead sunlight? Probably. (Though on close inspection, they look pretty decent here too.)
But have FDev "lied" to us, as some have suggested? No, I don't think so.
What's happening is they took all their promo images with the sun low in the sky (which represents most of the sunlit surface btw), where the planets look their best.
Players testing out the new planetary system are arriving hot from the star (having just jumped into a system, we arrive at the star, and therefore approach planets from the direction of the light source), and they're landing at the first place they see, which is almost always noon at the planet's equator. Where it just so happens the planets (quite realistically) look their most boring.
Hopefully this illustrates what I've been trying to say about taking into account the lighting conditions when comparing promotional images to gameplay and crying scandal.
You need to compare like with like.
I'm curious - how is your framerate, and how is the rendering as you approach a planet? Are you getting the texture pop-in, geometry "dancing", and flickering shadows I've seen reported by others like Obsidian Ant?
FYI, if everyone was posting images like yours, I'd be much more likely to invest in Odyssey sooner vs later.
Well then that begs the question, why? It also doesn't instill much faith in me to buy Odyssey right now, because which Odyssey will I get - the beautiful one or the ugly one?
I'm using a Ryzen 2600 and RX 580 (not an up-to-date or high end machine at all) and the framerate is mostly between 50 and 60 on planets at 1080p, high settings with a few things on ultra. I do see a wee bit of pop-in but it's not distracting. Don't know if that's just me having a higher tolerance for it than others.
The shadow does sometimes "disconnect" from my feet, you can kinda see it a bit if you look closely at the image above; you can see a tiny bit of illuminated ground behind my legs. It's worse when you're on a slope, seemingly.
Well, the good news is that the aforementioned images in this thread prove that Odyssey can deliver some stunning planetary visuals, and that gives me a lot of hope.
Now about that UI.... (no no, save that for another thread)