New Planet Tech is KILLER of Exploration (all terrain is tiling/repeating/not procedural/random)

Fizzatron

Fizzatron
I've been getting fed up with the proverbial ladies who doth protest too much on here (have all y'all forgotten what a show 2020 was for everyone?), however in this instance I think FDev need to address this pretty sharpish.

I also am supposing that it is an algorithm issue, at least I am hoping so.
 

BlackMaze

BlackMaze
Merkir said:
Thanks for posting this. Having now read what Dr. Ross said carefully, alarm bells should have been ringing. Now we know exactly what she meant when she said:

"For Horizons, that terrain is generated entirely mathematically. There was a lot of effort put into representing the kind of shapes a hill or canyon makes, just using maths."

"For Odyssey... we're talking up 100km worth of terrain for example, which are now generated offline into terrain shapes that we know are formed."
Click to expand...
Yup! This exact statement hurts so much because the mathematical calculation allows for true exploration of the unique outcome of the math!
 

Nordmarken

Nordmarken
freekzy said:
In addition, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/planetary-tech-with-dr-kay-ross-recap.565755/
Click to expand...
"Q: Will large worlds feature tall mountains or geological features?
This is an interesting question! There is a reason why the features are shallower on larger planets. With the increased gravitational strains you can't maintain as tall a natural feature with the strength the material is made out of. so you'll end up with shallower features. I'm afraid it's just how the maths drops out for those, there's a good range of planets but the tiny ones tend to be able to support the more extreme terrain because the large things aren't being destroyed by the gravity pulling it down."

Question now should be "Will worlds feature tall mountains or geological features"?
Answer: "No".
 

RealPuPpEt

RealPuPpEt
BroadswordUK said:
Seems like Dr. Ross is blocking anyone that asks her anything to do with this. I asked for a comment and was blocked. Oh well no problem, this speaks volumes on its own.
Click to expand...
Well if you read pages 3-4-5-6 of this thread you will discover why she's doing that.
And she's right, because sending her private messages or mentioning her thru her personal account is somewhat sad... We are adults, not kids.
Use some common sense.
 
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Jaim Vlazaltadar

J
BroadswordUK said:
Seems like Dr. Ross is blocking anyone that asks her anything to do with this. I asked for a comment and was blocked. Oh well no problem, this speaks volumes on its own.
Click to expand...

Maybe the woman does not feel she can best represent her company if being repeatedly questioned by randoms on her personal account in her own time. Maybe she just does not wish to do intensive company PR work for free. There's nothing wrong with either, in fact I wish more people had such good sense.
 

BroadswordUK

BroadswordUK
If you position your social media account in a manner that directly connects you with a project/company then expect people to ask you questions. I simply asked for a comment on a project that she was directly connected too in a considerable manner. No matter your opinion on Privacy, social media is not private.
 

Deleted member 121570

D
It's really sad tbh - it's very similar to the issues we tried to flag a couple of weeks back in the hooning 'open letter' thread. Was really worried about how the Odyssey planet gen was going to affect surfaces and what variety would be retained, and since then we've seen how that's shaken out. Maybe it wasn't the best thread, but once we'd started to hear the writing on the wall, at least we tried :(
 

Tee Mcgee

T
Ugh, the one thing I was looking forward to, and they ruined it. I didn't even look at the OP video because I knew exactly what it was going to talk about. I've spent most of the time since Odyssey released about 15k light years from the bubble and it's awful.

Odyssey ruined exploration for me.

a) the UI in system and galaxy panel makes exploration a chore

b) random crash sites and buildings literally tens of thousands of light years from civilization. On every single planet. Procedural generation would make me ask "WHY are these here??" the fundamental question that procedural generation is supposed to answer. There obviously is no answer; they're just placed there to "make planets interesting" apparently.

c) Planets and terrain look ugly, especially planets that already existed. I mean REALLY ugly:

https://imgur.com/QSBRfIi
Source: https://i.imgur.com/QSBRfIi.jpeg

https://imgur.com/vuEFXvN
Source: https://i.imgur.com/vuEFXvN.jpg

https://imgur.com/HeDJ5Y0
Source: https://i.imgur.com/HeDJ5Y0.jpg

https://imgur.com/ZyDZc3K
Source: https://i.imgur.com/ZyDZc3K.jpeg


d) they ruined my favorite planet completely, Schieneae FL-Y F660 A1A:
Horizons IMGUR dump:
https://imgur.com/a/YYBoqUE
Source: https://imgur.com/a/YYBoqUE

Odyssey:
https://imgur.com/mdrPfCx
Source: https://i.imgur.com/mdrPfCx.jpeg

https://imgur.com/1ce9Zjd
Source: https://i.imgur.com/1ce9Zjd.jpeg

https://imgur.com/PR1dogg
Source: https://i.imgur.com/PR1dogg.jpeg


and the distinct blue and red binary pair also turned Generic Beige Rocky Ice Yogurt:
https://imgur.com/fj8nJZw
Source: https://i.imgur.com/fj8nJZw.jpg



This is a travesty. Note all those screenshots are on Ultra.
 

MCCART

MCCART
Fizzatron said:
I've been getting fed up with the proverbial ladies who doth protest too much on here (have all y'all forgotten what a show 2020 was for everyone?), however in this instance I think FDev need to address this pretty sharpish.

I also am supposing that it is an algorithm issue, at least I am hoping so.
Click to expand...
Who was pushing for Odyssey to release this year?
 

Vi7ER

Vi7ER
There's a BIG problem with Odyssey planets and Dr Ross is central to it (in it's creation and solution). Discussing her will not get the problems sorted any quicker though. Nor will trying to contact her.

Not a chance FDev and Ross are not aware of the problem. Whether they are going to fix it is a much better question!?

Pretty sure the only answer to that one is: Time will tell! 😬
 

BroadswordUK

BroadswordUK
Rat Catcher said:
Yep, it tells the posters to use official channels...
Do you consider a bunch of randoms bombarding her with questions, on her personal account, are entitled to a response?
Click to expand...
I don't consider myself random, I was a follower. And again if you have direct links to projects you have been involved with on your profile, then expect questions to be directed at you. Also if you state on your profile you work for "Company A" and have worked EXTENSIVELY on a project for "Company A" then again, expect questions from people who are interested in the same things. Also Private is only private on social media if you restrict who can see your account from the beginning, not restricting it later because you have been asked some uncomfortable questions.
 

dannysquid

dannysquid
Vikestart said:
Exactly. This is the root of the problem. What a terrible decision to stray away from true procedural generation - at least if they can't produce enough variety with the current method. They should instead have improved upon the formula they already had.
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The problem here isn't that they've strayed from the holy noise functions, it's that they've got caught doing it!

I make digital maps for things for a living, and a problem I regularly have is when that data isn't good enough for what I'm representing -- 90m/pixel when I'm looking at something a few hundred metres across. You can add noise to things to make stuff look more organic but I nearly always cut and paste mountains/hills from somewhere else and blend them in. They have natural qualities that maths struggles with. As ED moves into worlds with weather there'll be a whole load of things that noise functions won't be that great with.

They just need a lot more variety in their cut and pasting and nobody will know the difference.
 

Deleted member 121570

D
Tee Mcgee said:
Ugh, the one thing I was looking forward to, and they ruined it. I didn't even look at the OP video because I knew exactly what it was going to talk about. I've spent most of the time since Odyssey released about 15k light years from the bubble and it's awful.

Odyssey ruined exploration for me.

a) the UI in system and galaxy panel makes exploration a chore

b) random crash sites and buildings literally tens of thousands of light years from civilization. On every single planet. Procedural generation would make me ask "WHY are these here??" the fundamental question that procedural generation is supposed to answer. There obviously is no answer; they're just placed there to "make planets interesting" apparently.

c) Planets and terrain look ugly, especially planets that already existed. I mean REALLY ugly:

https://imgur.com/QSBRfIi
Source: https://i.imgur.com/QSBRfIi.jpeg

https://imgur.com/vuEFXvN
Source: https://i.imgur.com/vuEFXvN.jpg

https://imgur.com/HeDJ5Y0
Source: https://i.imgur.com/HeDJ5Y0.jpg

https://imgur.com/ZyDZc3K
Source: https://i.imgur.com/ZyDZc3K.jpeg


d) they ruined my favorite planet completely, Schieneae FL-Y F660 A1A:
Horizons IMGUR dump:
https://imgur.com/a/YYBoqUE
Source: https://imgur.com/a/YYBoqUE

Odyssey:
https://imgur.com/mdrPfCx
Source: https://i.imgur.com/mdrPfCx.jpeg

https://imgur.com/1ce9Zjd
Source: https://i.imgur.com/1ce9Zjd.jpeg

https://imgur.com/PR1dogg
Source: https://i.imgur.com/PR1dogg.jpeg


and the distinct blue and red binary pair also turned Generic Beige Rocky Ice Yogurt:
https://imgur.com/fj8nJZw
Source: https://i.imgur.com/fj8nJZw.jpg



This is a travesty. Note all those screenshots are on Ultra.
Click to expand...

The flattening in action :(
 
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