A possible way to inspire people to play in Open

[[VR] James Constantine]

I disagree. I am not a PvPer, but when you log in to open it clearly states the conditions. Given that it is a video game and not an actual life thing, you should expect people to behave as if it is. They are under no obligation to make your simulation experience more realistic and calling them out to be psycopaths is taking it a step too far.

I called it psychopathic behaviour because in the real world that is what it would be - impulsive, complete lack of empathy or concern for consequences. Of course they're not actual psychopaths, just as they're not really star ship commanders. But if you're going to simulate a game world, it does help if you make it believable.

As for not being obligated to make 'my' simulation experience more realistic, that's a bit creepy, TBH. We all would like to see the game changed in different ways and discussing such things is what these forums are for - so your personalized response is more than a bit over the top.

The only way of reugulating this would be a more punishing crime and punishment system (but resetting someone’s commander is not a reasonable step).

I'd agree with this. Presently I think the current status quo is probably the best solution presently available. Doesn't hurt to discuss other options though.

 

[galahad2069]

You do understand that one can be aware that something is not real, but a simulation and yet point out where that simulation is not very realistic?

What you don't appear to understand is that if the game departs from what is realistic, too much then it loses it's appeal. It's one of the reasons that many people prefer ED over similar space sims, such as NMS.

I perfectly understand that ED is not a simulation, but a game.
There's a whole lot of unrealistic things in it.

For example you cannot buy iron anywhere in the ED universe, you need to shoot rocks using an SRV to lay your hands on some of the most basic materials. Out of the hundreds of billions of human beings populating the Galaxy there are like 3 who can engineer your thrusters to G5.

IRL there are no such things as supercruise, hyperspace jumps, arbitrary 500 something m/s speed limit in normal space, WW1 style dogfighting is space and many many other things that are in the game not to simulate something, but because it's a game that needs to be entertaining, not realistic.

You want simulation? Okay, then go play iron man mode. I blow your pixel spaceship up and your character dies: he's no more, you lose your whole progression, you'll need to choose a different CMDR name and you can start the game over in a Sidewinder. That would be a simulation, sounds fun, isn't it?

 

[Lysette]

I perfectly understand that ED is not a simulation, but a game.
There's a whole lot of unrealistic things in it.

For example you cannot buy iron anywhere in the ED universe, you need to shoot rocks using an SRV to lay your hands on some of the most basic materials. Out of the hundreds of billions of human beings populating the Galaxy there are like 3 who can engineer your thrusters to G5.

IRL there are no such things as supercruise, hyperspace jumps, arbitrary 500 something m/s speed limit in normal space, WW1 style dogfighting is space and many many other things that are in the game not to simulate something, but because it's a game that needs to be entertaining, not realistic.

You want simulation? Okay, then go play iron man mode. I blow your pixel spaceship up and your character dies: he's no more, you lose your whole progression, you'll need to choose a different CMDR name and you can start the game over in a Sidewinder. That would be a simulation, sounds fun, isn't it?

Well, there would be a lot less annoying people around, if it would be like this - because they finally would have to care for something - as in - not getting killed at all.

 

[galahad2069]

Well, there would be a lot less annoying people around, if it would be like this - because they finally would have to care for something - as in - not getting killed at all.

You believe that? LMAO.
We'd sooner run out of the entire carebear population (all of them having been sidewindered) before we'd lose a perceptible number of gankers.

 

[Lysette]

You believe that? LMAO.
We'd sooner run out of the entire carebear population (all of them having been sidewindered) before we'd lose a perceptible number of gankers.

yeah, I believe that - because they are cowards, who can't deal with permadeath. Whenever I suggested something like this in any game forum, exactly these kind of people were against it, because they are used to getting killed - not getting killed at all is alien to them and to actually have to deal with fear and consequences.

Try it out - make a deal with yourself, the next time you get killed in ED you start over - no rebuy, just delete your save and start over again. If you are serious about that, you will experience that you are not playing like before, because now it matters. But I doubt that you will be brave enough to do that.

 

[galahad2069]

yeah, I believe that - because they are cowards, who can't deal with permadeath. Whenever I suggested something like this in any game forum, exactly these kind of people were against it, because they are used to getting killed - not getting killed at all is alien to them and to actually have to deal with fear and consequences.

LOL
How many PvPers do you know (talked to; played together with)?

 

[Lysette]

LOL
How many PvPers do you know (talked to; played together with)?

well, try it - show that you are brave enough to do it -next time you die you start all over again - from scratch, deleting your save. Are you willing and brave enough to do that?

Now i wait for a bunch of excuses why you can't do that - like all the other "pvp" guys, too afraid to risk anything of value.

 

[galahad2069]

well, try it - show that you are brave enough to do it -next time you die you start all over again - from scratch, deleting your save. Are you willing and brave enough to do that?

Now i wait for a bunch of excuses why you can't do that - like all the other "pvp" guys, too afraid to risk anything of value.

The next time I'll face the rebuy screen will be in an organized wingfight in the rings, lmao, just like the last 1000.
Ofc I'm totally not willing to make all the other 7 people wait for me for months before the next round.
But feel free to try and kill me in organic PvP.

 

[Lysette]

The next time I'll face the rebuy screen will be in an organized wingfight in the rings, lmao, just like the last 1000.
Ofc I'm totally not willing to make all the other 7 people wait for me for months before the next round.
But feel free to try and kill me in organic PvP.

q.e.d. - you are not brave enough just finding excuses - i didn't expect anything else from you.

i have no intend to kill you - it was about permadeath as a suggestion for the game - not about you and me at all. you said i wouldn't know your kind - i well do, and you aren't like you think you are - no elite at all - not brave enough to play permadeath and live with harsh consequences. you know, a dead hero is a corpse - if you got killed, you aren't elite, but dead.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

I perfectly understand that ED is not a simulation, but a game.
There's a whole lot of unrealistic things in it.

Sigh You don't really get it do you. So, why do many people prefer ED to NMS?

 

[Codger]

This same thread. It never dies, it just returns and returns, with the same old bad logic and poor assumptions and the same replies.

Give it a rest. People play the way they want to play. It's ok.

 

[galahad2069]

q.e.d. - you are not brave enough just finding excuses - i didn't expect anything else from you.

i have no intend to kill you - it was about permadeath as a suggestion for the game - not about you and me at all. you said i wouldn't know your kind - i will do, and you aren't like you think you are - no elite at all - not brave enough to play permadeath and live with harsh consequences.

My "kind" (which you obviously don't know) are doing organized wingfights in rings. That's something like 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 matches. The fact that I'm not willing to wipe my save after every single "death" has nothing to do with cowardice, it would be utterly stupid to do so for obvious reasons.

That said, I could not care less if permadeath were a thing in organic PvP (as long as it applied to everyone and it could be disabled during organized fights).

 

[Lysette]

My "kind" (which you obviously don't know) are doing organized wingfights in rings. That's something like 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 matches. The fact that I'm not willing to wipe my save after every single "death" has nothing to do with cowardice, it would be utterly stupid to do so for obvious reasons.

That said, I could not care less if permadeath were a thing in organic PvP (as long as it applied to everyone and it could be disabled during organized fights).

why disable it?- you are afraid again- even if everyone would have the same permadeath rule?- not even then you are brave enough?

to me that would be the ideal state - wipe everything and start all over with permadeath - for everyone of course - that would help with it a lot, and the galaxy would be a safer place.

 

[galahad2069]

Sigh You don't really get it do you. So, why do many people prefer ED to NMS?

Because of the flight model?

 

[galahad2069]

why disable it?- you are afraid again- even if everyone would have the same permadeath rule?- not even then you are brave enough?

OK, you're obviously trolling, but I'll explain it slowly once again.
In a 4v4 wingfight at least 4 people are guaranteed to end up at the rebuy screen every single time. If they all wiped their saves, they would be unable to come out to the next round. Tournaments would be glacially slow, now would they not? What does it have to do with courage?
You get it now, or do you want me to make a drawing as an illustration? Be warned, my paint skillz are limited.

 

[[VR] James Constantine]

Because of the flight model?

And why would they prefer ED's flight model?

 

[Lysette]

OK, you're obviously trolling, but I'll explain it slowly once again.
In a 4v4 wingfight at least 4 people are guaranteed to end up at the rebuy screen every single time. If they all wiped their saves, they would be unable to come out to the next round. Tournaments would be glacially slow, now would they not? What does it have to do with courage?
You get it now, or do you want me to make a drawing as an illustration? Be warned, my paint skillz are limited.

i got that you do a tournament style event - what do people do in a tournament, if they can't win - they surrender - and the other can accept it or not. it would require some kind of surrender mechanic.

A surrender mechanic would be different than to just make an exception from permadeath - because if you don't surrender and take the risk, because you might just need a few more seconds to take the other down, then you are doing that at full risk - just like the other, if he doesn't surrender. it would be an interesting mechanic imo.

 

[galahad2069]

i got that you do a tournament style event - what do people do in a tournament, if they can't win - they surrender - and the other can accept it or not. it would require some kind of surrender mechanic.

Had you ever tried it (you should btw, it's fun) you would know that it wouldn't work.
You can just die anytime to a TC plasmaram or just to a desync ram from nearly full hull before you had time to raise your hand to give up.
Besides, explosions are pretty.

 

[galahad2069]

And why would they prefer ED's flight model?

Certainly not because it's realistic (it's not), but it's literally the best flight model of all the existing space games atm.

 

[Lysette]

Had you ever tried it (you should btw, it's fun) you would know that it wouldn't work.
You can just die anytime to a TC plasmaram or just to a desync ram from nearly full hull before you had time to raise your hand to give up.
Besides, explosions are pretty.

Hm yes, you are probably right with this in ED - in EVE we had it a bit easier, because you are in a capsule and if the ship is blown up, you are still alive in your capsule - just if that capsule is destroyed your clone dies as well and you wake up in your medical clone again. So tournaments there were easier to do and all you really risked was your ship.

well, my pvp times are over by several reasons - one of them is I'm living in Australia and we have marvelous 280ms ping at best, but more likely are 360ms - pvp is not going well with such a delay. Furthermore I lost the aggression required to do and enjoy PvP - the only PvP I really enjoy in EVE is now market pvp in a niche market.