Elite Dangerous: Odyssey Update 4

Jarsil

J
Patrick_68000 said:
Frontier always in the front line in the fight. (y)

And as usual when I see the awesome lists of updates, I wonder how it is possible to make so many mistakes originally. :unsure:

😷
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One of the reasons are we users.
During the beta testing, one should report each and every bug encountered, but lots of people take betas (i mean open ones) as "Play before the others". This happens on every game.

I'm a software programmer, and my bugfix list is always a km long, even when I personally tested everything (or I think I did).
 

Amy Pendergast

Amy Pendergast
Jarsil said:
One of the reasons are we users.
During the beta testing, one should report each and every bug encountered, but lots of people take betas (i mean open ones) as "Play before the others". This happens on every game.

I'm a software programmer, and my bugfix list is always a km long, even when I personally tested everything (or I think I did).
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Not exactly. There were about a thousand tickets posted in Alpha, mostly not resolved but partly now patched in Updates 1-4.

So people do what they can and file bugs, leave descriptions etc but the tickets rather get stale than answered on that issue tracker.
 

Chazzie

Chazzie
Scoob101 said:
Id really like to see a statement from the CM`s relating to the quantity of serious outstanding bugs which are expected to remain unfixed after the next update is rolled out, and the view of the team on where that leaves the game in the months leading up to console release.

If there is an acceptance that we still have serious unresolved issues following the rollout of update 5, there needs to be an earnest review of the current timelines, and consideration for pushing back console release to allow Odyssey to get closer to release quality via additional updates.
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This, right now the huge amount of bugs that I keep running into every time I play odyssey is starting to make me worry. Update 5 will have to be massive in scope, and content, in order to bring it to release candidate standard.

Right now, and I mean this respectfully, I don’t think that Update 5 is going to get a majority of the serious bugs fixed and is more than likely to introduce a load of new ones, then what? Do we have to wait till console release to get those issues fixed?

I don’t know, we’ll have to wait and see - but given the state of the game right now, I don’t have high hopes.
 

Winterdyne

W
@sallymorganmoore , @Zac Cocken , @Arthur Tolmie :

The above is a common concern - that update 5 will not address a sufficient number of the outstanding issues and we'll be left hanging or with very sporadic bugfix drops till console relase.

Can you please broach it in the community update or post a thread addressing it and reassuring the community that bugfixing what's been released and paid for already is the top priority for Frontier?
 

Adam Kafei

A
[ACTIV DREAMER] Frillop Freyraum said:
So much hate in this context is pretty damaged, just to be clear. Nothing provides an excuse for so much hate for a pixel product.
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Not sure what you mean by "damaged" but to address the second part of that statement; emotions don't care if something is real or imagined, so why would they act any differently when it's pixels and code? You might ask people to be more mature about things but, equally, anyone who hates something cares about it in some way or another and in games it's usually that they want it to be better (even if what they might think is better is something others think is the worst thing imaginable).

That's not to excuse taking it out on people, staff or otherwise, but one should refrain from avoiding or dismissing feedback based on how it's voiced.
 

Adam Kafei

A
[ACTIV DREAMER] Frillop Freyraum said:
I'm not sure where you're coming from, but where I live, hate is not considered a basic human right. Some forum participants almost pretend that it is, and that expressions of hate should also be specially protected and cultivated. The result of this vicious trend is indeed a certain form of feedback that I reject (which does not need to bother you since I'm not a CM or developer).

But perhaps it's also a matter of language: the word "hate" is used far too often here, whereas in my language one would rather speak of "dislike". Hate is reserved for the last ultimative escalation (in my language), for what you only got something ridiculous like "absolute hate".
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I wouldn't say that hate is a "human right" but, like every other emotion, I would say it is intrinsic to any sentient being. The question is how people act on it and react to it, I'd say that rejecting feedback born of hate is almost as much a mistake as posting such feedback without filtering it through a more detatched logic, in that it is no less legitimate criticism; though it is perhaps better described as "coming from a place of wanting something to be less bad" than "coming from a place of wanting to make something better".

There is perhaps a legitimate debate to be had about the possible dilution of the English word "hate", people are very good at diluting words and the internet is even worse for it with the unfortunate result of the simplification of language, nonetheless "hate" is now the accepted word for anything much beyond minor displeasure.
 

Jarsil

J
Amy Pendergast said:
Not exactly. There were about a thousand tickets posted in Alpha, mostly not resolved but partly now patched in Updates 1-4.

So people do what they can and file bugs, leave descriptions etc but the tickets rather get stale than answered on that issue tracker.
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I've explicitly written about "open betas" not Alpha. Alpha is a closed stage in which people is well motivated to help developers. Open betas not always.
 

Jarsil

J
Amy Pendergast said:
Yes, but here I wished they had made it a beta. Instead they called it a release.
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as I said, being a software developer myself, I can't blame them. Being a customer it's way easier. They're working on it, the game works reasonably well, it can be certainly improved, but still, they did an amazing job in the last couple years.
In my experience, disastrous releases are way worse then the way they launched Odissey :)

The only single episode of miscommunication I remember was when they decided to drop the mac version. It wasn't their fault, but still they lacked the ability to properly explain the situation and thing went bad for everyone.
 

Amy Pendergast

Amy Pendergast
Jarsil said:
as I said, being a software developer myself, I can't blame them. Being a customer it's way easier. They're working on it, the game works reasonably well, it can be certainly improved, but still, they did an amazing job in the last couple years.
In my experience, disastrous releases are way worse then the way they launched Odissey :)

The only single episode of miscommunication I remember was when they decided to drop the mac version. It wasn't their fault, but still they lacked the ability to properly explain the situation and thing went bad for everyone.
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I'm working myself in the software industry, not as a programmer but as a DevOps after programming for years.

The gaming industry is the only one I know in which this quality would be acceptable as a release version.

For the Mac version: They explained it really good, most consumers just didn't understand. It was not their fault that the pixel shader in the first Metal Versions where unable to deliver the performance Horizon needed. Clear as water. I wish we would get explanations like that now but understand that this would do nothing for the majority of us :)

Don't get me wrong, I'm still all for Elite, but this time they really borked it up. And they know it.
 

Franc Kaos

Franc Kaos
Jarsil said:
as I said, being a software developer myself, I can't blame them. Being a customer it's way easier. They're working on it, the game works reasonably well, it can be certainly improved, but still, they did an amazing job in the last couple years.
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I'm not a software developer, just a customer, but if you think lying to your customer base is an ok way to do business please tell me what you're developing so I can steer well clear of it.

Fdev sold this as a release version that I consider alpha (correct me if I'm wrong but beta is close to final version and looking for issues?) with bugs obvious from playing for five minutes, optimisation unfinished, broken planet generation and lighting system (neither likely to be fixed before the console release).

It's also obvious lots got cut from the 'final' release (the amount of plants populating 400 billion systems), the triangle of combat - ship, srv, foot, not to mention foot based Thargoid battles (one and done DLC not a seasons pack remember) and a clear demarcation between on foot ahd ship based gameplay...

And the concourse is a joke, so much more to do than with ship internals!
 

Jarsil

J
Franc Kaos said:
I'm not a software developer, just a customer, but if you think lying to your customer base is an ok way to do business please tell me what you're developing so I can steer well clear of it.

Fdev sold this as a release version that I consider alpha (correct me if I'm wrong but beta is close to final version and looking for issues?) with bugs obvious from playing for five minutes, optimisation unfinished, broken planet generation and lighting system (neither likely to be fixed before the console release).

It's also obvious lots got cut from the 'final' release (the amount of plants populating 400 billion systems), the triangle of combat - ship, srv, foot, not to mention foot based Thargoid battles (one and done DLC not a seasons pack remember) and a clear demarcation between on foot ahd ship based gameplay...

And the concourse is a joke, so much more to do than with ship internals!
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I will let the first sentence pass, because I'm not easily insulted by people who doesn't know anything about developing software. You're just plain wrong, but it's not my problem.

FDev is made of people. People made wrong judgement calls sometimes, not necessarily they just plain lie to their customers. I'm not saying Odissey is perfect. It isn't. They know perfectly well. The fact is, they are working to address issues, and if after 4 patches some issue still persists means that the issue is just not easy to fix.
Passing judgements from people who doesn't work in the sector is a wrong thing to do. To each their job.

And no, beta is not necessarily close to release, it depends on the company internal production cycle. They may have an open beta stage, one or more release candidates, so, the assumption that beta is close to release is not necessarily true (nor wrong, though, it's just an assumption and not a fact).

I respect the opinion of a unsatisfied customer, as long as it remains an opinion and not a technical comment unless it comes from a technical person. I, too, as a customer, I'm actually unsatisfied with the results (the Neutron star lightning problem is awful to say the least), but I can't say that they don't know what they're doing, because it would just be wrong.
 
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