Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
There are a number of possible reasons:

1) You don't have the game installed on a SSD
2) You don't have enough memory
3) You don't have the game installed on a SSD
4) The servers
5) Chris Roberts
6) You don't have the game installed on a SSD
7) The game just threw a wobbly

And its a long shot, but maybe you don't have it installed on a SSD.
I just think that
8) he doesn’t understand game development.
 
I tried my first FPS mission today (go to a cave by Port Oli and clear out the riff-raff). They were REALLY in there deep. Geez.
FPS quality is strongly tied to server health. On a fresh server AI is good and deadly, seeking cover and hiding. On common servers it reacts one to several seconds later. And on bad server it doesn't react at all.
Chance to be on a fresh server are few (less than 10%) as the game is more stable than before. We have far less server reboot now.

Some death animations can also be pretty long. The max I've seen is 5 seconds for a guy to fall on the floor. Hard to see it if you shoot from distance in the fog.
 
@Agony_Aunt show me one other game that have movable physics grids independent from the world physics grid.

And don't say ARK.
Oh, Im sorry, late reply from 9 sheets ago, i.e. Wednesday, but I said this before, and there's this game called Ship Simulator (a newer version of it is called Ship Simulator Extremes on steam) that is the first place I saw this being used...musta been about 2008. It is a totally unique thing, and Im not sure if other games ever used the system, or needed to, but what struck me as great is being able to disengage from the helm and walk around the ship. On water! And the point of the game is navigating through rough seas, so you quickly realize "oh, wow, Im not sliding off the ship, in rough waves...Im on the ship!" I always test this sort of crap out in games, like GTA or Cyberpunk, and I'll hop on a car or into the back of a pickup where I end up having to 'walk' in the same direction the vehicle is moving so I dont slide off. It's probably why I shelled out the cash to get my Aurora in the first place.

You're confusing abstractions with approximations. They're not the same thing, logically or practically in a development sense, but in general I think I agree.

What you're actually getting at is that for a great many systems the amount of approximation (getting something that looks and feels about right in a simulation even though it's a kludge) isn't enough to be practical, and we are instead seeing systems implemented at a level of complexity that just make the overall job longer.

Lets for example take ship maneuvering thrusters.

Elite approximates this by having thrusters about the ship that fire when the ship moves based on a simple 'yaw, pitch, roll' stat trio. The individual thrusters can't be damaged, can't be altered (altering the thruster grade basically tweaks the YPR values), the centre of rotation of each ship is fixed. It's a kludge, but it works, it's neat enough, and it doesn't actually need to be anything more. Ding ding, point to Elite.

Star Citizen handles this by having each individual thruster gimbal to provide thrust based on an actual centre of mass. Knocking out thrusters on one side actually stops them from working and feeds back to the maneuvering of the ship. The abstraction method provides a location for thrusters relative to centre of mass, force of the thruster, etc. etc. It's super complicated but allows for great depth of simulation. But all that setup needs to be done*, for each and every ship. And at the end of the day, in most situations, it won't behave any differently (other than the thrusters wobbling like a spastic violin player's elbow).

*: This boils down to back-calculating the thruster values from playtested YPR values for the ships.

The questions of 'Do you actually need that?' 'Is that actually fun?' 'Is it worth the time and cost?' are often perhaps answered in ways that we, as either players, or customers awaiting their product might not.

Edit: It bears repeating, I do not class Star Citizen as a game yet. Yes, I've spent money on it (quite a bit, for me, for a game/plaything). I did that knowing I was funding CR's insane fever dream - and that's the important bit. I paid to watch the madness unfold. Don't buy into it if you want a game to play, or at least, certainly don't spend anything you'd be upset about. I've not actually spent that much time on Star Citizen. I've done a few things, looked at others (now need to rebind all my controls which will take a frickin' age). It's a testbed of a developer given almost completely free rein, and it shows 'where could things in game development go' if anything more than 'where will Star Citizen / S42 itself go'.

Also, they did these videos showing how they're making the AI walk paths, and when they go around the corner slowly, they'll lean a little bit, but if they go faster, the lean more. It was such a fascinating video back in 2014 or 2015, and of course they talked about how it's so they can develop stuff faster. I actually misunderstood them, and thought the system making the AI do those animations was actually in the game, so you didn't need the animation. After a year or 4, I realized they just use that system to generate the animation, then they just use that animation in the game. What? Why not just mocap and then....but....oh.. But hey, side project CR, why not make it so there's no animations in the game, but the steps etc are calculated in the game! Then you just need to say "go from point a to be" and the AI will lean if it's going around a corner at a certain pace, and if not, it'd fall over. That's what I would do. Can I have some fidels now? woop woop! Oh, or is that too much fidelity? Scared you a little?

It can be annoying if you lose a wing with a thruster on it or you have two main engines and one starts flaming out, you end up trying to fly the ship on the crab or worse going round in circles, i've had one ship barrel role uncontrollably.

That's a little too real for me.

Tho, i have not had any of that happen for a while, i think they turned it off, you do lose chunks of your ship in a fight, some times, perhaps they also decided it was a little too real.

Right, too real. What is SC, a cartoon?

You don't need a super high end rig to run SC.

1440P Highest Graphics settings, Smooth 60+ FPS

AMD Ryzen 5600X: $300
Gigabyte Aorus Elite B550: $160
AMD RX 6700XT: $480 (MSRP)
WD Blue SN550 NVMe: $60
32GB 3200MT/s DDR4: $160

$1160 Total
-----------

1080P Highest Graphics settings.

AMD Ryzen 3600: $200
GIGABYTE B450M DS3H V2: $70
Nvidia RTX 3060: $330 (MSRP)
WD Blue SN550 NVMe: $60
16GB 3200MT/s DDR4: $90

$750
-----------

I will add the RX 6700XT in the first build is about 25% more powerful than mine and mine runs the game at 1440P highest settings more than fine.
The RTX 3060 is about 15% slower than mine, its just that Nvidia or AMD don't currently make anything that fits in the middle for around <$400. My GPU was $480 8 months ago.

All I know is for ground stuff, in EDO, I get 17-19 fps, oh but now I clicked that AMD Fidelity button thing, and it's like 22-25 fps which apparently is fine for me.

Can someone get SC a button like that? I currently get 11 fps in SC. I'd be so happy if that even got up around 17, no joke.

I haven't turned settings down on either, other than that button in ED.

One thing i enjoy is the bargaining down that goes on over in SC land (and i've now seen the same in Odyssey land as well) where people start saying sub 60FPS is fine... in a twitch based shooty shooty game.

I find this amusing in that I've always had subpar systems. What is fine to me is anything around 20 fps and higher. So when I see everyone saying how crappy things are, since they're not getting 60 fps, etc, I just have a chuckle and go enjoy EDO at 19 fps. Im not sure I'd even notice the difference. Brain operates at a low frame rate maybe?
 
Oh, Im sorry, late reply from 9 sheets ago, i.e. Wednesday, but I said this before, and there's this game called Ship Simulator (a newer version of it is called Ship Simulator Extremes on steam) that is the first place I saw this being used...musta been about 2008. It is a totally unique thing, and Im not sure if other games ever used the system, or needed to, but what struck me as great is being able to disengage from the helm and walk around the ship. On water! And the point of the game is navigating through rough seas, so you quickly realize "oh, wow, Im not sliding off the ship, in rough waves...Im on the ship!" I always test this sort of crap out in games, like GTA or Cyberpunk, and I'll hop on a car or into the back of a pickup where I end up having to 'walk' in the same direction the vehicle is moving so I dont slide off. It's probably why I shelled out the cash to get my Aurora in the first place.



Also, they did these videos showing how they're making the AI walk paths, and when they go around the corner slowly, they'll lean a little bit, but if they go faster, the lean more. It was such a fascinating video back in 2014 or 2015, and of course they talked about how it's so they can develop stuff faster. I actually misunderstood them, and thought the system making the AI do those animations was actually in the game, so you didn't need the animation. After a year or 4, I realized they just use that system to generate the animation, then they just use that animation in the game. What? Why not just mocap and then....but....oh.. But hey, side project CR, why not make it so there's no animations in the game, but the steps etc are calculated in the game! Then you just need to say "go from point a to be" and the AI will lean if it's going around a corner at a certain pace, and if not, it'd fall over. That's what I would do. Can I have some fidels now? woop woop! Oh, or is that too much fidelity? Scared you a little?



Right, too real. What is SC, a cartoon?



All I know is for ground stuff, in EDO, I get 17-19 fps, oh but now I clicked that AMD Fidelity button thing, and it's like 22-25 fps which apparently is fine for me.

Can someone get SC a button like that? I currently get 11 fps in SC. I'd be so happy if that even got up around 17, no joke.

I haven't turned settings down on either, other than that button in ED.



I find this amusing in that I've always had subpar systems. What is fine to me is anything around 20 fps and higher. So when I see everyone saying how crappy things are, since they're not getting 60 fps, etc, I just have a chuckle and go enjoy EDO at 19 fps. Im not sure I'd even notice the difference. Brain operates at a low frame rate maybe?

Ah yeah, GTA. It has issues with putting movable things inside movable things. If you've ever tried to airlift bikes in a Titan it often ends up in a SC-like explosion.

It is possible... just. I've transported 4 bikes from Paleto Bay to LSIA in the Titan, but my Titan was practically on fire as i landed and exploded not long after.
 
All I know is for ground stuff, in EDO, I get 17-19 fps, oh but now I clicked that AMD Fidelity button thing, and it's like 22-25 fps which apparently is fine for me.

Can someone get SC a button like that? I currently get 11 fps in SC. I'd be so happy if that even got up around 17, no joke.

I haven't turned settings down on either, other than that button in ED.
EDO has AMD's FSR?

Ok that's cool, its good tech, AMD's answer to DLSS only unlike DLSS its open source, easy to impliment and even works on Nvidia's older GPU's that don't have Tensor Cores.

Is that with the latest patch?

I don't know, SC might get it, if CIG don't put it in a moder might, as i said its open source, people are already starting to plug it in to random older games..

------------------

Anyway. Loreville, yeah my GPU isn't quite as good as i thought it was, at least it is GPU locked, i can do something about that for more performance, and i am running 1440P.

@Agony_Aunt your treat is at 18 minutes if you want to skip forward.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q413YKjCwbA
 
Time for CIG to pounce!


Will CIG be adding VR to on-foot gameplay as a response?

It would seem like adding VR might have been a good response to the 2013 VR streatch goal and subsequent claims to the VR press that it was in hand.

I had an Oculus Rift DK1 back when CIG added that horrendous support for the hangar module, it didn't work - you actually had to fix it yourself by using the command prompt to switch the l/r eyes. Since then we've had two generations of consumer hardware.

Since Ben said "don't hold your breath" on this forum about four years ago, there has only been one junior CIG developer that said they would "love to work on VR" in an interview...

To me that seems to have gone from "give money now and we will absolutly support VR if a target is reached" to "Thanks for the cash, VR is nearly ready" to "nobody working on VR, would love to ...some day... if the money keeps on coming...." in almost a decade.

That isn't a very premium response, why isn't the community putting any kind of pressure on for stuff they were directly asked to pay for back in 2013?
 
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Will CIG be adding VR to on-foot gameplay as a response?

It would seem like adding VR might have been a good response to the 2013 VR streatch goal and subsequent claims to the VR press that it was in hand.

I had an Oculus Rift DK1 back when CIG added that horrendous support for the hangar module, it didn't work - you actually had to fix it yourself by using the command prompt to switch the l/r eyes. Since then we've had two generations of consumer hardware.

Since Ben said "don't hold your breath" on this forum about four years ago, there has only been one junior CIG developer that said they would "love to work on VR" in an interview...

To me that seems to have gone from "give money now and we will absolutly support VR if a target is reached" to "Thanks for the cash, VR is nearly ready" to "nobody working on VR, would love to ...some day... if the money keeps on coming...." in almost a decade.

That isn't a very premium response, why isn't the community putting any kind of pressure on for stuff they were directly asked to pay for back in 2013?

Well, according to some, its fine if CIG walk back on the things they sold to backers or convinced them to pledge in the first place. :p
 
A CEO and a Director of a company funded by individual fans should never have to release a "proof of life" video. Especially after hyping it earlier for weeks, while the content is on the level of "The Clueless and The Mumbling".

Not sure what to think about them moving to the UK and Chris helping with SQ42.
 
EDO has AMD's FSR?

Ok that's cool, its good tech, AMD's answer to DLSS only unlike DLSS its open source, easy to impliment and even works on Nvidia's older GPU's that don't have Tensor Cores.

Is that with the latest patch?

I don't know, SC might get it, if CIG don't put it in a moder might, as i said its open source, people are already starting to plug it in to random older games..

------------------

Anyway. Loreville, yeah my GPU isn't quite as good as i thought it was, at least it is GPU locked, i can do something about that for more performance, and i am running 1440P.

@Agony_Aunt your treat is at 18 minutes if you want to skip forward.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q413YKjCwbA
Oh wow it does.... EDO has AMD's FSR.

Source: https://youtu.be/Or1-0RvmnaA?t=201
 
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