Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[StanleyDunkan]

I just agreed that FDev dangling the giant carrots of the DLC, putting no timeframe on their delivery, and pre-selling the same is bad practice, and more than worthy of criticism. I criticise them plenty for it

What CIG have done is worse though, all the way down the line. Yes.

Promising a perpetually growing list of detailed functionality, funded via the perpetual pre-selling of macro items, while perpetually roadmapping big pillar feature additions (and perpetually failing to deliver many them) etc etc. They have dangled way more carrots, pre-sold them way more heavily, and they just… don’t… stop…

FDev gets near to the same foibles, but comparatively they are saved by: (A) only having pre-sold these deep-time items for two key periods (the £80 & £120 lifetime pass sales); (B) Having mainly held off from promising more and more detailed additions to their dream pitches, and (C) Having delivered products to market that fulfil on some of those pitches. (If less so on EDO performance to date ).

That’s not an argument for FDev being fine, or merely misunderstood. It’s an argument for CIG’s behaviour being worse. It’s that simple.




Yes I’m fully aware of everything he’s said. None of those statements ever put a timeframe on delivery, other than 'in a future DLC' though.

If you look at the marketing material used to sell the LEPs (like the roadmap in the link I provided), and at the text from point of sale, this is particularly clear.

All of this means that they absolutely have pre-sold ship interiors. And they absolutely have to attempt them, for as long as ED is a going concern. And we all absolutely have the right to hold their feet to the fire over that.

But it all also still means you are wrong to state that they advertised this DLC as containing ship interiors. None of the lifetime pass pre-sales make that commitment (if anything, they do the opposite, in terms of not committing to a scheduling order). EDO itself wasn’t advertised as having those features.

Be angry about them still not being in the game, and at hints that they might be, for sure. Be more than that if ED folds and they never deliver them.

But while you’re at it, be thankful that you didn’t buy a Javelin for $3000. Or SQ42 in 2012

You'll notice that Star Citizen, achieved more on the Road Map already.

 

[VR Golgot]

You'll notice that Star Citizen, achieved more on this Road Map than Elite Dangerous did in the same time frame. And i think that is the part of why more and more Elite Dangerous players are looking at Star Citizen. Because they see things that were promissed in ED to be already in Star Citizen.

Oh I totally get why there’s a slide over to SC. Especially from the ship interior and 'I want a space beer dammit' crowd.

Some will find after a few months that SC’s alpha take on these features isn’t quite 'achieved' as yet though. It doesn’t have the mod cons of a delivered game, because it’s still a half-built alpha. The tendency to die if you match large armour with small ramp, or what have you, will mean it won’t be the sandbox for everyone

But some will like it for sure. (And others will buy many, many ship interiors . Even though they absolutely don’t have to…)

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

I think if Star Citizen went up on Steam it would be Overwhelmingly Negative in a day.

As a new player, really what is holding this game back is the servers. It touches all aspects of the game (that I've tried). That's why I think it would be basically negative reviewed into oblivion. You can't really play the game without their poor servers slapping you in the face, and if your game doesn't work, Steam reviews are going to eat it alive. They don't care if it's an Alpha.

I've enjoyed my time with Star Citizen. I don't mind a janky Alpha with weird bugs. I do mind the servers being a trash fire, and the game depending so heavily on the servers you can't pick up a rock without its say-so (as I just recently found out from trying out on-foot mining). Bounty hunting in ships seems to be the most reliable gameplay loop, and even that, every other time I engage in it my NPC opponent will teleport mid fight and I'm certain the game isn't registering my hits.

I think Star Citizen would be great with an offline mode (bugs and all).

 

[Zetta]

Assumptions backed up by blanket statements doubled down by more assumptions and there we go, righteous in a bigoted slur at his nationality..

This was the first thing that hit me about this thread, a small number people either making a lot of assumptions or looking for reason to react to people in a way that is beyond reason.

The only assumptions and doubling down going on here is by yourself. You didn't know my intentions and whether they came from a bigotted place or not. I however, do know that I am not bigoted, xenophobic, racist or any of that crap.

There was repeated behaviour to his many comments which showed his intentions, observing that is not making assumptions.
What is making assumptions is leaping to a conclusion based on a single post.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

@Darkfyre99

CR made some promises he can not deliver on, yet or if ever.

Ok i heard that a million times, so now what? what am i supposed to do about that?

Buy an Idris of course.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I've absolutely no idea...I just fly pixel space ships in both games and generally enjoy the experience... I don't do business or forum politics. Considering I'm the epitome of apparently deeply misguided idiots having spent a considerable amount of time and money supporting Star Citizen...as well as ED, I seem to have an easy time of it on here...no idea why

Because you don't make SC to be out more than it is. Its not the second coming of Chris. Its just a game, potentially a decent one, eventually, that is somewhat playable now. You don't run to CIG's defense whenever it is criticized. You just say you enjoy what is there. You don't bemoan the fact that there is no other game out there where you can do exactly the same things that SC offers (while ignoring what it doesn't offer) and say "in what other game can i land on a high fidelity planet and watch the sun rise?" or whatever the actual quote was from LA. You don't make minor things out to be major stuff.

That's why you get an easy time. For you, its just a game. Plus you accept you're a wally for giving CIG money

 

[govny]

They did tho not as clearly as that.

since it seems you slyly ignore my previous post that you are misinformed or are simply lying I repost, this time with some reference that even you can find easily.
On the page of ED kickstarter:
"Some new features and content will be paid for, especially those that build significantly on the game. If you have pledged to £90 tier or higher then any expansions or updates are free."
to me it seams clear enogh. what do you think?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

That newsletter 29, has a Road Map:

• Landing/ driving / prospecting on airless rocky planets, moons & asteroids
• Walking around interiors and combative boarding of other ships
• Combat and other interactions with other players and AIs in the internal areas of star ports
• Accessing richly detailed planetary surfaces
• Availability of giant ‘executive control’ ships to players

You'll notice that Star Citizen, achieved more on this Road Map than Elite Dangerous did in the same time frame. And i think that is the part of why more and more Elite Dangerous players are looking at Star Citizen. Because they see things that were promissed in ED to be already in Star Citizen.

While i don't necessarily agree with your assessment of whether CIG did more in that time, at the end of the day, CIG really should be doing more in the same time! A lot more. 700 devs, almost half a billion in funding total and millions per month through pledges vs 100 devs and whatever funding FD are allocating.

Then there is NMS, which seems to outpace both games in terms of content with a relatively tiny team... go figure.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I think if Star Citizen went up on Steam it would be Overwhelmingly Negative in a day.

If they didn't stop reviews behind an early access label, which CIG totally would.

But if they dared to put a release label on what is there... oh boy. The reviews would make Odyssey look positively good in comparison.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

DB said some stuff...CR said some stuff...some stuff is unlikely to happen due to finances, development costs and business contraints in both cases. Both DB and CR are heads of studios selling their product to an audience at the end of the day. Whether I'd trust the word of one over the other is down to personal perception, past history in the field of game development...or whatever bias I care to throw in to try and convince other people...

In my eyes, DB has the edge, purely from the business accumen and past history as a developer...but that's just me

There is one difference, when DB says "game will have this, and that", and later that does not happen he does not owe anything to gamers. As game is sold when released, or at least very late in development playable pre-release. While when you buy SC you basically do not buy a game, but rather "pledge to help development of game", CR's saying are PROMISES that he OVES to people who have pledged money. Small but meaningfull difference.

 

[cigwatch]

Because you don't make SC to be out more than it is. Its not the second coming of Chris. Its just a game, potentially a decent one, eventually, that is somewhat playable now. You don't run to CIG's defense whenever it is criticized. You just say you enjoy what is there. You don't bemoan the fact that there is no other game out there where you can do exactly the same things that SC offers (while ignoring what it doesn't offer) and say "in what other game can i land on a high fidelity planet and watch the sun rise?" or whatever the actual quote was from LA. You don't make minor things out to be major stuff.

Surprisingly, for every game X there is only one game, X, that offers exactly what X offers

 

[TNTDany]

Kate turns bounty hunter in her purchased in game Cutty black and tries out flying as turret crew for a mate in the latest of her dives into Star Citizen....I must admit, I'm really enjoying her series of videos as well as her continued enthusiasm as an SC newbie

Lovely videos by Kate showing clearly that there's much more of a game there to have fun with and with features that many scold or said Frontier would be better ignoring and following their own path...

Attention to details and immersion are valued by many players and something that Frontier shouldn't neglect with weak excuses of "it gets boring after a while". It doesn't! It makes you appreciate the work they put in the game even more and leaves you eager for more.

Well... didn't turned out that well now did and Kate's videos and all the other Elite content creators having fun in SC and having no problem to acknowledge just how much better a lot of it's features are when compared with ED.

It is clear and decisive unbiased proof that even those who've been challenging anyone who stated as much all these years can't deny or ignore leaving them with a huge egg on their faces. (maybe why some usual posters have gone missing suddenly).

Look at the comments in Kate's videos or in DtEA's tutorial for SC (I've noticed some have a thing for random coments here):

Or in the latest EliteWeek rantcast praising SC and how the dev's interact with their community.

Frontier very much needs that, the community wants some of that passion from the first years when Braben was seen as totally committed into making Elite: Dangerous the game he pitched us in the kickstarter.

Shame that it took a troubled (and deceitful) release by Frontier for this thread to come to realisation to just how wrong those negating the game's virtues have been all these years. Even more shameful is the double standards and hypocrisy about the deceitful nature of odyssey's release but that's whole other story.

 

[Iron Golem]

.

Ill get the Tsu's chicken with a side of lo-mein. Extra duck sauce please.

 

[Red Martian]

Are we pointlessly comparing the business practises of FDev and Ci¬G and fighting again?

Yay! \o/

Why is it that every time those utterly banal comparisons are made...usually after some random person from the internet decides to foolishly announce that they actually like Star Citizen...the entire population of this forum turns into really bad accountants or armchair developers?

It's actually OK to like and play both games

This. I own Odyssey, and I don't play it right now because while the first week or so wasn't too bad, it actually started borking real bad for me soon after, and so I uninstalled for a while. I currently have SC installed, as there are few options that I own.

I like Odyssey when it's working right, and I'm steamed (no pun intended) about the lack of VR support in foot mode.
I like Star Citizen when it's working right, and I am highly critical of it because it's a 9 year old alpha that plays like a 2 year old alpha.

I have bought every expansion of ED. I'm sure at some point Odyssey will be worth its price. Honestly, with more than 830 hours in ED, I've got my money's worth out of it.
I have a Constellation Phoenix in Star Citizen. Those do not come cheap. Yeah, it was over the course of buying and melting for 3 years, but I have invested enough to buy one, and I did. Unfortunately, right now it's only purpose is to look pretty and not explode. One of those two things it does fairly well, the other... not so much.

I want ED to be better. I want space legs and ship interiors that offer a smoother, more immersive experience.
I want SC to be better. Actually, I want SC to be done. Tier 1 the crap out of the core mechanics and release it, and work on it as you go. This working on the roof while the basement collapses isn't smart.

I can be critical of both, I can enjoy both. I like Star Trek AND Star Wars. I like peanut butter AND chocolate. I like the Captain AND Tennille.
Fighting over which rich CEO of a game studio is the worst lying liar just really chafes my panties. They've both lied to satisfy their immediate financial deficits. That doesn't make them good or bad, but it does make them flawed and fallible, like other humans. We can do better than that.

Now, let's continue the petty debating. I'm going to go get a Coke.

 

[Winterdyne]

I spent a good while this weekend farting around in Star Citizen (3.13). Haven't actually been on it since 3.11 I think.

It's fun. Bit demanding for my Ryzen 3400 / 1600 super rig. Got a bit better by shoving the install onto a 2nd SSD. Fun though. Looks GORGEOUS. Ground textures (lots of displacement mapping) in particular take a wee on odyssey from a great hight.

 

[Winterdyne]

This. I own Odyssey, and I don't play it right now because while the first week or so wasn't too bad, it actually started borking real bad for me soon after, and so I uninstalled for a while. I currently have SC installed, as there are few options that I own.

I like Odyssey when it's working right, and I'm steamed (no pun intended) about the lack of VR support in foot mode.
I like Star Citizen when it's working right, and I am highly critical of it because it's a 9 year old alpha that plays like a 2 year old alpha.

I have bought every expansion of ED. I'm sure at some point Odyssey will be worth its price. Honestly, with more than 830 hours in ED, I've got my money's worth out of it.
I have a Constellation Phoenix in Star Citizen. Those do not come cheap. Yeah, it was over the course of buying and melting for 3 years, but I have invested enough to buy one, and I did. Unfortunately, right now it's only purpose is to look pretty and not explode. One of those two things it does fairly well, the other... not so much.

I want ED to be better. I want space legs and ship interiors that offer a smoother, more immersive experience.
I want SC to be better. Actually, I want SC to be done. Tier 1 the crap out of the core mechanics and release it, and work on it as you go. This working on the roof while the basement collapses isn't smart.

I can be critical of both, I can enjoy both. I like Star Trek AND Star Wars. I like peanut butter AND chocolate. I like the Captain AND Tennille.
Fighting over which rich CEO of a game studio is the worst lying liar just really chafes my panties. They've both lied to satisfy their immediate financial deficits. That doesn't make them good or bad, but it does make them flawed and fallible, like other humans. We can do better than that.

Now, let's continue the petty debating. I'm going to go get a Coke.

Q F T

 

[Phlegm]

I'll just leave that here. While some studios work on outdated AWS/Twitch integration, real innovation is taking place elsewhere.

Behold the first ever mmo/Tinder integration:

Looks more like they integrated with Grindr, not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[StuartGT]

If they didn't stop reviews behind an early access label, which CIG totally would.

But if they dared to put a release label on what is there... oh boy. The reviews would make Odyssey look positively good in comparison.

Early Access games still have reviews on Steam.

Odyssey should have been marked Early Access.

 

[StanleyDunkan]

I have a Constellation Phoenix in Star Citizen. Those do not come cheap. Yeah, it was over the course of buying and melting for 3 years, but I have invested enough to buy one, and I did. Unfortunately, right now it's only purpose is to look pretty and not explode. One of those two things it does fairly well, the other... not so much.

Wait over 3 years? People were saying each major patch your in-game currency UEC resets - was that not true?

 

[Fishy]

Wait over 3 years? People were saying each major patch your in-game currency UEC resets - was that not true?

3 years of adding real money to his real-money-ingame-gold. That doesn't get reset. And there is a process to convert your real-money ships for credits that you can use to buy other ships. So you can buy more stuff over time and later convert it to something else.