Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Intrepid3D]

you seem to forghet that during original pledge campaign they clearly said this future contents would have been paid DLC.
Or maybe you know but like spreading some lies.

They did tho not as clearly as that.

They said they wanted to expand the game.

playable ships to the game.


The initial release of Elite: Dangerous doesn't mark the end of development. We intend to continue expanding the game both with new content and new features. A good example of this is planetary landings. We have an ambitious goal for landings to include new gameplay and a rich variety of worlds to explore. To achieve our goal we want the planets to come to life. We also want to add leaving the ships so you can explore space stations or board enemy vessels or even just to look around your own.

This is how they communicated those expansions would not be free.

The main reason for treating these as expansions is so we can approach these with the proper development resources that we require to do them well. We don't plan or desire to just tick a box, we want to make these additions something significant.

Extra resources here having the meaning of money, so those expansions are DLC's.

When you're reading that in 2013 or whenever it was the communication that each of these expanded features would come at an extra cost post launch is about as clear as mud, but it satisfies the lawyers.

 

[cigwatch]

Are you really going to make me dig up the promises Braben made? You know a lot about the promises CR failed to deliver on but nothing about Braben.

I asked a very specific question because you made a very specific claim. Could you point me to any piece of marketing material that promised ship interiors in EDO? I am not talking about all the promises of CR or of Braben. I am talking about what you said.

Because if you are trying to say that when a company explicitly says "X won't happen at launch", you interpret it as "X confirmed", it is not Braben's fault. Or Chris Roberts' for that matter. Take some responsibility for the claims you are making.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Also, another key difference is that CIG has been charging for those promises since day 1, 9 years on so far, to the tune of 350 mil and counting. It hasn't even stopped. That has been reflected in a commercial commitment via Kickstarter and the Stretch Goals to start with. All of them fulfilled. Plus all the concept ships and contrent sold after that. And they represent a very real product debt by CIG to the buyers. All the risk is on the buyers as CIG can always simply decide to not deliver after all the money has been payed.

In the mean time FDEV is only charging for those original ideas if and when they make it to market in a DLC (unless we want to turn this conversation about the LEP limited tiny minority). Some of those original plans have even been delivered at no additional costs (Fleet Carriers). And the market will have those DLC reviewed and criticized almost instantaneously once released, for us to have all the info we need to decide if we buy or not. Until then no one has to worry about considering even paying up a cent. As we can see with EDO all the risk is on the developer.

The difference is i only have to pay once for the base pledge to access all that content.

 

[Intrepid3D]

I asked a very specific question because you made a very specific claim. Could you point me to any piece of marketing material that promised ship interiors in EDO? I am not talking about all the promises of CR or of Braben. I am talking about what you said.

Because if you are trying to say that when a company explicitly says "X won't happen at launch", you interpret it as "X confirmed", it is not Braben's fault. Or Chris Roberts' for that matter. Take some responsibility for the claims you are making.

because you insist i will dig it out for you tomorrow.

PS, i wait for my ability to board your ship and take a look around, eh?

 

[Viajero]

The difference is i only have to pay once for the base pledge to access all that content.

But paid you have, you and everyone else that has contributed to the 350+ mil. And CIG is basically putting all the risk of non delivery and waste of 350+ mil on you. Unlike FDEV. CIG has a commercial obligation and debt. FDEV on the other hand uses its own funds and will only charge you when a product is released, or about to be.

 

[cigwatch]

because you insist i will dig it out for you tomorrow.

I don't think you will. But please try.

 

[LittleAnt]

Also, another key difference is that CIG has been charging for those promises since day 1, 9 years on so far, to the tune of 350 mil and counting. It hasn't even stopped. That has been reflected in a commercial commitment via Kickstarter and the Stretch Goals to start with. All of them fulfilled from the buyers side. Plus all the concept ships and contrent sold after that. And they represent a very real product debt by CIG to the buyers. All the risk is on the buyers as CIG can always simply decide to not deliver after all the money has been payed.

In the mean time FDEV is only charging for those original ideas if and when they make it to market in a DLC (unless we want to turn this conversation about the LEP limited tiny minority). Some of those original plans have even been delivered at no additional costs (Fleet Carriers). And the market will have those DLC reviewed and criticized almost instantaneously once released, for us to have all the info we need to decide if we buy or not. Until then no one has to worry about considering even paying up a cent. As we can see with EDO all the risk is on the developer.

Which is better ? The one that slowly deliver its promises, with the final goal always in mind or the other one which released some parts faster but gives up during the travel ?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

And any rebuttal to that is white knighting.

What do you think about the Steam reviews this game has?

If any rebuttal to that would be white knighting then maybe there is an even bigger issue!

Not sure what point you are making with the second part. SC/SQ42 aren't on Steam and maybe they never will be.

 

[Viajero]

Which is better ? The one that slowly deliver its promises, with the final goal always in mind or the other one which released some parts faster but gives up during the travel ?

In terms of consumer abuse and manipulation I think it is quite clear.

In terms of actual playable product and content so far it also seems FDEV still has the upper hand, unless CIG can release SQ42 or the PU soon ish.

Now, you may "like" or "have fun" more with one than the other, but that is just a subjective perception.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The difference is i only have to pay once for the base pledge to access all that content.

Funnily enough, if everyone did that, there would never have been a game!

And, you didn't just pay for a base pledge did you?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Which is better ? The one that slowly deliver its promises, with the final goal always in mind or the other one which released some parts faster but gives up during the travel ?

Well, we will see when CIG add the 110 systems people paid for.

Oh right, it doesn't matter if CIG don't deliver on their promises. 110 systems is too many anyway!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Just wanted to say, thread is good again!

 

[VR Golgot]

FDev have put what was promised in the original pledge into 2 DLC's, the latter $40. some of it.

What you are talking about is post pledge promises as if the original pledge never happened.

Nope. I’m pointing out to you that the most detailed the original pledge got was this:

We do intend to release small, free updates after launch, but expansions that include significant new features and content will be charged for separately. For example, our current roadmap is to add (in no particular order):

• Landing/ driving / prospecting on airless rocky planets, moons & asteroids
• Walking around interiors and combative boarding of other ships
• Combat and other interactions with other players and AIs in the internal areas of star ports
• Accessing richly detailed planetary surfaces
• Availability of giant ‘executive control’ ships to players

Neither the original pitch, nor the EDO pitch, advertised ship interiors as coming in the 2nd paid DLC. You are wrong to state that they did.

I understand you being wrong on it, and others too. And on everyone being angry at the timeframe. And as I’ve said ample blame lies with FDev on those fronts.

But you’re still wrong on your specific claims.

And that includes the one about CIG and FDev being as bad as each other . For all the reasons mentioned (which you have studiously ignored to date).

 

[Intrepid3D]

But paid you have, you and everyone else that has contributed to the 350+ mil. And CIG is basically putting all the risk of non delivery and waste of 350+ mil on you. Unlike FDEV. CIG has a commercial obligation and debt. FDEV on the other hand uses its own funds and will only charge you when a product is released, or about to be.

Braben has about $80 of my hard earned cash, probably enough to pay for one of his funky shirts, and he might get more of it, i don't know yet, lets see how it goes.

Its still ok to pay Braben for his work, it doesn't mark you out as stupid, and why would it, in here?

 

[Viajero]

Braben has about $80 of my hard earned cash, probably enough to pay for one of his funky shirts, and he might get more of it, i don't know yet, lets see how it goes.

Its still ok to pay Braben for his work, it doesn't mark you out as stupid, and why would it, in here?

You mean the LEP? Not sure if you are trying to equate and conflate a limited LEP sale purchased by a tiny minority of the player base population in a very limited time window, explicitly without any guarantees in terms of delivery or dates, with 350+ millions of also hard earned cash payed by the totality of the SC player base population in exchange of very specific content committed to in Kickstarter and Stretch Goals and very specific dates. A player base that is still paying up to this date and for the foreseeable.

I mean the rest of the forum has quite a number of threads regarding the ED LEP but not sure you can conflate those two cases here, I am afraid. Several orders of magnitude different.

 

[Mole HD]

It was interesting to watch. I can see why some consider what there is in SC fun. I also appreciate the continued honesty about the problems she's encountered. It's that honesty that silences the part of me that wonders how many dozens of hours were required to get 30 minutes of nice looking gameplay.

I must admit that I rolled my eyes at the two "Only in Star Citizen" comments, given that formation flying is fairly common in games that feature space ships, and there are other games where you can stand behind a pilot as they fly their ship. Though I must admit the latter isn't all that common.

I forgave her the eye rollers of "Only in Star Citizen!"...you wouldn't believe how many times I see that in game chat from new players

Being a 5,500 hour Elite player myself and watching Kate's experiences in SC, most of them for the first time, I can understand her reactions. Seeing Star Citizen as a 'game', as Kate is doing and not what we do on here disecting Ci¬G's lies, the deceitful and shameful business practises and tearing the mismanaged development hell of the project to bits....

That's why I enjoy her videos, she's more than likely well aware of all the things we class as 'important' topics of discussion on here, but she's still enjoying experiencing the gameplay outside of or despite that...a bit like me playing... but a lot less cynical

 

[Intrepid3D]

You mean the LEP? Not sure if you are trying to equate and conflate a limited LEP sale purchased by a tiny minority of the player base population in a very limited time window, explicitly without any guarantees in terms of delivery or dates, with 350+ millions of also hard earned cash payed by the totality of the SC player base population in exchange of very specific content committed to in Kickstarter and Stretch Goals and very specific dates, plus additional specific concept sales. A player base that is still paying up to this date and for the foreseeable.

I mean the rest of the forum has quite a number of threads regarding the ED LEP but not sure you can conflate those two cases here, I am afraid. Several orders of magnitude different.

The game is there to see warts and all, we are all grown-up able to make our own choices, what's your point about the money? Is Braben more deserving of it?

 

[Darkfyre99]

Most people just play the game, they don't concern themselves with the politics of CR, they judge the game on how they experience it not by how big of a ######### CR is.

And that's the most annoying thing about this whole thing for me.

I was promised a game in 2012, which would be released 2014: Star Citizen, which consisted of single-player campaign (Squadron 42) that would flow into a persistent online MMO. The fact that some enjoy the game as it currently is doesn't erase the years of broken promises by the company as a whole, and Chris Roberts in particular. The fact that some enjoy the game as it currently is doesn't erase nearly half a billion dollars of mostly backer money that has been frittered away by this company due to massive mismanagement, and the tens of millions that has been squirreled away by the Roberts Clan via Hollywood accounting.

Quite frankly, it would be infuriating if I hadn't successfully gotten a refund after I learned about CIG's dozens of shell companies. And despite it all, Star Citizen still remains a game I very much like to play. I just don't see CIG being able to deliver that game as described, with or without Roberts at the helm.

 

[VR Golgot]

or the other one which released some parts faster but gives up during the travel ?

I guess if/when it happens it would be worth discussing as a hypothetical.

Currently FDev haven’t stopped making ED. Or indeed ruled out attempting ship interiors (which is what you’re referring to I imagine). They’ve ruled out ship interiors for this DLC.

Both of these games will be judged best, and most accurately, when they’re both dead it seems

 

[Intrepid3D]

@Darkfyre99

CR made some promises he can not deliver on, yet or if ever.

Ok i heard that a million times, so now what? what am i supposed to do about that?