Development Update 1 - June

[Deleted member 182079]

you guys read it in a wrong way - I am not bashing elderly - I'm just saying they keep the game in the state in which it is, because they never complain about anything really. This game is lackluster and they are satisfied with it and worship Mr. Braben for what he did nearly 37 years ago - instead to expect more from the game, they are just satisfied,and that is why nothing goes forward - they don't stop playing and move on to something else, they stick to Elite no matter what - that is what I dislike - this glorification of the past, whereas Elite cannot compete with other space games in the future. This being satisfied with what ED currently is, is what brings it down in the end.

I sort of get what you're trying to get at but I don't think it's the right angle - I reckon the issue isn't the fact people are of a certain age (I played the OG Elite on the C64, and I'm not happy with how ED has turned out on various levels including game design) but possibly because Elite is the only game they play (and perhaps ever have played).

Or it's simply some misplaced loyalty for whatever reason and are simply in denial. And others perhaps just have very low standards (maybe also connected to the fact they don't play a lot of quality games so don't know where the quality bar is in 2021).

 

[Deleted member 182079]

My streaming channel would be sponsored by meat.

Like & subscribe = bangers & mash?

 

[Lysette]

You are "almost" right. It is all the more true that the elite is being pulled by the same players from the last century who played the previous, less functional versions.
But the reason they drag this game from the bottom up is not because they are happy with the content. But because one day the ideas and atmosphere of the Elite entered their minds and blossomed into a myriad of things that “could be” if the game were to be revealed to its fullest potential. This is not just fanaticism for some old game mechanics with old restrictions. But they support the Elite in the hope of seeing everything they have dreamed of for 3 decades.
Don't think that they are all happy. They just have a little more hope of seeing something of their own that a particular CMDR has dreamed of.

You got to the point much better than me actually - this is basically what I wanted to say, but in a way it didn't get through as intended.

 

[MacIntoc]

Well, sure - but if I was in the market for either of the console versions I'd be looking very closely at how they're handling the guinea pigs PC version and would likely come to the conclusion that it's better to hold off until someone reviews it (and most "professional" reviewers can't be trusted either these days) or wait until I hear from fellow consoliero's experiences - though if everyone is taking that approach... well.

It's always at the moment of jumping that you realise the real weight of the ball and chain you've been carrying for years.

I'm also not convinced that the PC version will get true and proper fixes to the current issues - they'll be workarounds and band aids (purely basing this on what's been done so far during the past 5 patches), and just pray that the planet tech won't be dumbed down as part of that.

FDev also don't know if they could even band aids the game after console launch and Horizon merge, if it happen. They have deadlines on others games.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I'm also not convinced that the PC version will get true and proper fixes to the current issues - they'll be workarounds and band aids (purely basing this on what's been done so far during the past 5 patches), and just pray that the planet tech won't be dumbed down as part of that.

Depends, I am pretty optimistic about performance. Some basic shader rework or even just a toggle, better upscaling methods and some improved surface occlusion culling and we should be comfortably cruising 60fps, ultra, 4k with previous gen hardware.

Consoles is another matter, I doubt previous gen supports SR at all for example...

 

[Deleted member 182079]

It's always at the moment of jumping that you realise the real weight of the ball and chain you've been carrying for years.

Not sure I understand what you mean by that, sorry.

FDev also don't know if they could even band aids the game after console launch and Horizon merge, if it happen. They have deadlines on others games.

If it's true that they have a rotating dev team, that sort of explains why EDO looks and plays the way it does, but it's also a concern for its future as they might just drop it altogether eventually in favour of more sexy and promising IP.

 

[Lysette]

'Later life' 'being past middle age' - are you even remotely serious? I find much of what you've written here pretty damn insulting. And as for personal attacks, you know where the report button is - if you were expecting contrition, I don't post something here unless I mean it so sorry to disappoint you.

To be clear, I very much doubt that there are a significant number of people in this multi-million selling game's player base who are in 'later life' or 'past middle age' and who are responsible for anything at all in this game, let alone some nostalgia bias in its development. I think you're talking absolute nonsense.

you might not like the official definition of merriam-websters but that is it - if you like it or not is irrelevant - I can address you as an elderly person if you are past middle age. This is not an insult, just a fact.

 

[Lysette]

I sort of get what you're trying to get at but I don't think it's the right angle - I reckon the issue isn't the fact people are of a certain age (I played the OG Elite on the C64, and I'm not happy with how ED has turned out on various levels including game design) but possibly because Elite is the only game they play (and perhaps ever have played).

Or it's simply some misplaced loyalty for whatever reason and are simply in denial. And others perhaps just have very low standards (maybe also connected to the fact they don't play a lot of quality games so don't know where the quality bar is in 2021).

could well be, yes - like i said I don't try to bash on them at all. i just think they should be more vocal about that ED isn't progressing and be less patient and less loyal as well. FDev doesn't have to do much with players like this, because they will stick to the game no matter what, even when progress is made at a snail pace and isn't much at all.

 

[Vandaahl]

you guys read it in a wrong way - I am not bashing elderly - I'm just saying they keep the game in the state in which it is, because they never complain about anything really. This game is lackluster and they are satisfied with it and worship Mr. Braben for what he did nearly 37 years ago - instead to expect more from the game, they are just satisfied,and that is why nothing goes forward - they don't stop playing and move on to something else, they stick to Elite no matter what - that is what I dislike - this glorification of the past, whereas Elite cannot compete with other space games in the future. This being satisfied with what ED currently is, is what brings it down in the end.

Wow, thats a load of hog wash.

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox IV]

well, it is rather pointless to argue, if you think that ED is graphically stunning.

I sense a troll is loose in this forum.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Depends, I am pretty optimistic about performance. Some basic shader rework or even just a toggle, better upscaling methods and some improved surface occlusion culling and we should be comfortably cruising 60fps, ultra, 4k with previous gen hardware.

Consoles is another matter, I doubt previous gen supports SR at all for example...

What's weird is that we're 5 patches in which have not addressed the issue (always been 1 step forward (for some) 2 steps back (for most)) while some hobbyist comes up with a performance solution/band aid in their free time just like that (even though I don't doubt it works I'm not going to mess with shaders et al, that's Frontier's job and if they're not up to it, I'll rather take a break until they do).

What consistently worried me over the past weeks (with each patch) is

• they listed stuff as fixed where it's not (invisible rocks for example),
• they brightened up the cockpits (something I liked on paper, but absolutely hate in reality now having seen what they did) but going way overboard on it,
• they "fixed" some paintjobs but only those where they get the most flak for while many others are still utterly broken (this cost real money let's not forget, and they're still selling them right now),
• the lighting is still very inconsistent (too bright in one place, too dark elsewhere) so it seems they try to address each symptom individually, even though there seems to be something fundamentally wrong with the renderer.

Up until patch 5 performance was.... manageable for me, I'm used to rock solid 60fps (locked, in reality it'd be a lot higher) and a very clean and stable image with no glitches and the likes, yet I sort of got used to the ropey stuttering and fps drops in various areas, until the terrible lag spikes were introduced with the latest update - that's not to say that I didn't achieve those 60fps in EDO - it's just very inconsistent and I hoped they'd have figured out the causes for these by now.

They seem to be playing whack-a-mole and I can't say I'm confident in them any more that they will sort this out to the extent that the game will run as smoothly as Horizons. It should be, given what's on screen, but... I think Frontier lost control of their software (staff turnover, lack of knowledge sharing, spaghetti code, who knows why), that's certainly how it looks like to an outsider like myself.

 

[Pigletslastand]

And then you remember.. this is all just a game, and you can use your free time however you wish and there are other things and games to do out there..

 

[Ian Skippy]

I sense a troll is loose in this forum.

It depends on what people mean. The screenshot topic shows plenty of stunning things, but some define quality by polycount and such. ED has no RT, doesn't handle high polycount, only one dominant light source and so forth.

ED can look fantastic, but it can also look rather dated. Like all space games, really. X4, ED, NMS,m and SC all have this issue. Partly because they are all running on 'upgraded, old engines.

 

[Ian Skippy]

What's weird is that we're 5 patches in which have not addressed the issue (always been 1 step forward (for some) 2 steps back (for most)) while some hobbyist comes up with a performance solution/band aid in their free time just like that (even though I don't doubt it works I'm not going to mess with shaders et al, that's Frontier's job and if they're not up to it, I'll rather take a break until they do).

What consistently worried me over the past weeks (with each patch) is

• they listed stuff as fixed where it's not (invisible rocks for example),
• they brightened up the cockpits (something I liked on paper, but absolutely hate in reality now having seen what they did) but going way overboard on it,
• they "fixed" some paintjobs but only those where they get the most flak for while many others are still utterly broken (this cost real money let's not forget, and they're still selling them right now),
• the lighting is still very inconsistent (too bright in one place, too dark elsewhere) so it seems they try to address each symptom individually, even though there seems to be something fundamentally wrong with the renderer.

Up until patch 5 performance was.... manageable for me, I'm used to rock solid 60fps (locked, in reality it'd be a lot higher) and a very clean and stable image with no glitches and the likes, yet I sort of got used to the ropey stuttering and fps drops in various areas, until the terrible lag spikes were introduced with the latest update - that's not to say that I didn't achieve those 60fps in EDO - it's just very inconsistent and I hoped they'd have figured out the causes for these by now.

They seem to be playing whack-a-mole and I can't say I'm confident in them any more that they will sort this out to the extent that the game will run as smoothly as Horizons. It should be, given what's on screen, but... I think Frontier lost control of their software (staff turnover, lack of knowledge sharing, spaghetti code, who knows why), that's certainly how it looks like to an outsider like myself.

I am guessing the 'quickly, push out patches to placate them!' order from management didn't help. What you see is a stressed out team rushing stuff. I can't imagine a number of months of working in silence won't help a lot.

The current cycle doesn't allow for any kind of meaningful QA anyway.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

And then you remember.. this is all just a game, and you can use your free time however you wish and there are other things and games to do out there..

Absolutely, I try to keep reminding myself that all this drama (myself taking actively part in it no less) is over a pooter game.

Then again - it's been a sizeable part of my entertainment for the past 6/7 years so there's a fair bit of emotional investment... suppose you could - at a stretch - compare it to telling a football fan that he can no longer watch football? Not the end of the world in the greater scheme of things but still a bit of a bummer for the individual concerned.

 

[Lysette]

It depends on what people mean. The screenshot topic shows plenty of stunning things, but some define quality by polycount and such. ED has no RT, doesn't handle high polycount, only one dominant light source and so forth.

ED can look fantastic, but it can also look rather dated. Like all space games, really. X4, ED, NMS,m and SC all have this issue. Partly because they are all running on 'upgraded, old engines.

This is a fair evalulation.

 

[Pigletslastand]

Absolutely, I try to keep reminding myself that all this drama (myself taking actively part in it no less) is over a pooter game.

Then again - it's been a sizeable part of my entertainment for the past 6/7 years so there's a fair bit of emotional investment... suppose you could - at a stretch - compare it to telling a football fan that he can no longer watch football? Not the end of the world in the greater scheme of things but still a bit of a bummer for the individual concerned.

Yeah i know and the fact I'm here means I'm just as invested. I was being overly flippant because of how jaded I am tbh. And the fact that I've given up hope of them actually fixing it properly now.

 

[MacIntoc]

Not sure I understand what you mean by that, sorry.

I think FDev knew their game technology was not state of the art but, with Odyssey launch, they discovered that their technology was in fact not able to evolve properly without going through some parts overhaul.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I am guessing the 'quickly, push out patches to placate them!' order from management didn't help. What you see is a stressed out team rushing stuff. I can't imagine a number of months of working in silence won't help a lot.

The current cycle doesn't allow for any kind of meaningful QA anyway.

Yeah that crossed my mind also, they entered panic mode and fell over themselves trying to fix the game. I always thought weekly patches were quite ambitious (just like the live version 2 weeks after "Alpha" lol) and it opened them up to wonky updates (though they do have form in this, rushed or not tbh).

Probably best if they slow things down but they would need to explain what they're doing because just being quiet now is just as bad if not worse. Although if they slow things down purely for consoles and perhaps worse, other IP taking priority, maybe best to keep that to themselves

 

[Pigletslastand]

Just what in heavens name have they been doing for three years though?? It's baffling!