Does that mean we can't have the stuphs?
Taking a break until EDO is fixed.
- Thread starter drew
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You can. Here for example.
I played the Alpha series of EDO, I really enjoyed it, I hadn't played on release due to work bits and the like.
Ita sad to see threads like this now, especially from dyed in the wool old timers. I havent had the spirit within me to fire it up even since seeing all the threads about it. How has this happened.
Never mind I'm hopeful I'll come back again some rainy tuesday when I have time and see people who's opinions I trust are enjoying it.
Ita sad to see threads like this now, especially from dyed in the wool old timers. I havent had the spirit within me to fire it up even since seeing all the threads about it. How has this happened.
Never mind I'm hopeful I'll come back again some rainy tuesday when I have time and see people who's opinions I trust are enjoying it.
I wasn't going to log back in here, but @Old Duck sent me a very nice little note which I had to answer. 
First things first, thanks for all the notes of support (and also those who are either indifferent or disagree - all opinions are valid).
It will come as no surprise that I am very disappointed with Fdev's behaviour of the release of EDO. Lying is a strong word and I would only normally attribute it to an individual - I don't consider any particular individual within Fdev to have lied to us, but I do find the collective behaviour of Frontier Developments to be misleading at best and deceptive at worst. Where the actual truth lies along that spectrum is difficult to gauge. I have a little more knowledge of the internal behaviour of this company than most and I attribute most of what has happened to carelessness, lack of cohesion and ossified management. Individual contributors, I'm convinced, care deeply about the work they do.
I also have a slightly dim view of some of the moderation team on this forum. This is by no means universal, as I know some of them IRL and they're a decent sort, but I have (IMHO) been unreasonably moderated in the past, and the move of this post to this lovely tranquil backwater without explanation when it clearly was 'on topic' has been interpreted by me as censorship. I'm aware that discussing moderation actions is "illegal" by the rules of the forum - ban me if you wish, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."
To clarify on my criticism of Elite and Frontier, I review all of my statements and videos to ensure I feel they are as objective as possible. I am by no means perfect in this regard and have a strong mischievous element (as you'll have seen in my little Portal ditty). However my recent "Debacle" video is part of a series on the history of Elite from start to finish, cataloguing both the highs and the lows in a dispassionate manner. This is definitely a low.
I absolutely do not condone personal attacks on individuals at Frontier. This is unacceptable, no ifs or buts. Of the current CM team I have only met one in person, that being the wonderful @sallymorganmoore who is an absolute delight and a complete gem. I will also mention @Zac Cocken who acknowledged an issue with me streaming EDO a few weeks ago and helped solve it. These people are working very hard in a very difficult situation and deserve praise for their efforts. It's not their fault that they have little in the way of good news to offer us right now.
As for Elite itself. Well, it remains in the same position it's been for many years. It has vast potential, it lacks a cohesive vision, it has a vast repository of unused lore, it is full of elements which are individually interesting, yet incomplete and do not work together in harmony and its gameplay mechanics are mainly focussed on a tedious grind. The current iteration is beset by bugs affecting a considerable portion of the player base in a variety of ways. In short it is a mess.
I genuinely hope it will get tidied up, integrated together, embrace the rich lore of the universe it resides in and, once again, become the definitive space game of the genre. That's going to take a lot of effort, but crucially it requires Fdev (the org) to acknowledge what has gone wrong, how they got here and figure out a way forward. That's a big ask. It's not impossible, but it's a big ask.
If I'm banned for this post, then so be it. I don't have time for such silly games. I feel this is fair and honest criticism. I hope to be back playing ED (and EDO) at some point in the future - when it's fixed. Until then, a fond farewell.
Right on, Commanders and o7.
Cheers,
Drew.
- Class of 84.
First things first, thanks for all the notes of support (and also those who are either indifferent or disagree - all opinions are valid).
It will come as no surprise that I am very disappointed with Fdev's behaviour of the release of EDO. Lying is a strong word and I would only normally attribute it to an individual - I don't consider any particular individual within Fdev to have lied to us, but I do find the collective behaviour of Frontier Developments to be misleading at best and deceptive at worst. Where the actual truth lies along that spectrum is difficult to gauge. I have a little more knowledge of the internal behaviour of this company than most and I attribute most of what has happened to carelessness, lack of cohesion and ossified management. Individual contributors, I'm convinced, care deeply about the work they do.
I also have a slightly dim view of some of the moderation team on this forum. This is by no means universal, as I know some of them IRL and they're a decent sort, but I have (IMHO) been unreasonably moderated in the past, and the move of this post to this lovely tranquil backwater without explanation when it clearly was 'on topic' has been interpreted by me as censorship. I'm aware that discussing moderation actions is "illegal" by the rules of the forum - ban me if you wish, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."
To clarify on my criticism of Elite and Frontier, I review all of my statements and videos to ensure I feel they are as objective as possible. I am by no means perfect in this regard and have a strong mischievous element (as you'll have seen in my little Portal ditty). However my recent "Debacle" video is part of a series on the history of Elite from start to finish, cataloguing both the highs and the lows in a dispassionate manner. This is definitely a low.
I absolutely do not condone personal attacks on individuals at Frontier. This is unacceptable, no ifs or buts. Of the current CM team I have only met one in person, that being the wonderful @sallymorganmoore who is an absolute delight and a complete gem. I will also mention @Zac Cocken who acknowledged an issue with me streaming EDO a few weeks ago and helped solve it. These people are working very hard in a very difficult situation and deserve praise for their efforts. It's not their fault that they have little in the way of good news to offer us right now.
As for Elite itself. Well, it remains in the same position it's been for many years. It has vast potential, it lacks a cohesive vision, it has a vast repository of unused lore, it is full of elements which are individually interesting, yet incomplete and do not work together in harmony and its gameplay mechanics are mainly focussed on a tedious grind. The current iteration is beset by bugs affecting a considerable portion of the player base in a variety of ways. In short it is a mess.
I genuinely hope it will get tidied up, integrated together, embrace the rich lore of the universe it resides in and, once again, become the definitive space game of the genre. That's going to take a lot of effort, but crucially it requires Fdev (the org) to acknowledge what has gone wrong, how they got here and figure out a way forward. That's a big ask. It's not impossible, but it's a big ask.
If I'm banned for this post, then so be it. I don't have time for such silly games. I feel this is fair and honest criticism. I hope to be back playing ED (and EDO) at some point in the future - when it's fixed. Until then, a fond farewell.
Right on, Commanders and o7.
Cheers,
Drew.
- Class of 84.
You've hit the nail on the head.
E: D's problems aren't that Odyssey is broken, or this or that gameplay mechanic lacks depth (although these are all very important and pressing issues) but the main problem as I see it is a lack of cohesion, direction and leadership. Nobody has (at least as far as I can see) taken a holistic view of the whole game and figured out how to join all the dots they've put down into a complete picture. Everything is disconnected - Odyssey, as their largest update so far, particularly so... because like the others it was developed in complete isolation from the rest of the game. Gameplay wise, nothing in Odyssey feeds back into the main game, and vice versa. It may as well be a separate game entirely.
This is why there is now a hard split between the users of the two game clients.
My worry is that FDev (as an entity) have far too much institutional hubris to recognise this and fix it. I have no doubt they have talented & dedicated people, but through lack of proper direction and vision, they have built a house of cards... which Odyssey has now made collapse.
I don't see why you should be banned, but I'm not a mod. I would like to think that FDev will learn humility and Make Elite Great Again, but I'm not hopeful based on past and current evidence.
o7 Commander.
The sad part is I think this sort of thing after each update, but it never happens. The problem too is once the magic and enthusiasm dies in the minds of those who play it, no amount of fixing will sort it either. You play it again and its just another game- but perhaps thats a good thing in a way....it means FD have to win people continually and not ride on nostalgia or promises.
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I've screenshot this in case it magically disappears.I wasn't going to log back in here, but @Old Duck sent me a very nice little note which I had to answer.
First things first, thanks for all the notes of support (and also those who are either indifferent or disagree - all opinions are valid).
It will come as no surprise that I am very disappointed with Fdev's behaviour of the release of EDO. Lying is a strong word and I would only normally attribute it to an individual - I don't consider any particular individual within Fdev to have lied to us, but I do find the collective behaviour of Frontier Developments to be misleading at best and deceptive at worst. Where the actual truth lies along that spectrum is difficult to gauge. I have a little more knowledge of the internal behaviour of this company than most and I attribute most of what has happened to carelessness, lack of cohesion and ossified management. Individual contributors, I'm convinced, care deeply about the work they do.
I also have a slightly dim view of some of the moderation team on this forum. This is by no means universal, as I know some of them IRL and they're a decent sort, but I have (IMHO) been unreasonably moderated in the past, and the move of this post to this lovely tranquil backwater without explanation when it clearly was 'on topic' has been interpreted by me as censorship. I'm aware that discussing moderation actions is "illegal" by the rules of the forum - ban me if you wish, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."
To clarify on my criticism of Elite and Frontier, I review all of my statements and videos to ensure I feel they are as objective as possible. I am by no means perfect in this regard and have a strong mischievous element (as you'll have seen in my little Portal ditty). However my recent "Debacle" video is part of a series on the history of Elite from start to finish, cataloguing both the highs and the lows in a dispassionate manner. This is definitely a low.
I absolutely do not condone personal attacks on individuals at Frontier. This is unacceptable, no ifs or buts. Of the current CM team I have only met one in person, that being the wonderful @sallymorganmoore who is an absolute delight and a complete gem. I will also mention @Zac Cocken who acknowledged an issue with me streaming EDO a few weeks ago and helped solve it. These people are working very hard in a very difficult situation and deserve praise for their efforts. It's not their fault that they have little in the way of good news to offer us right now.
As for Elite itself. Well, it remains in the same position it's been for many years. It has vast potential, it lacks a cohesive vision, it has a vast repository of unused lore, it is full of elements which are individually interesting, yet incomplete and do not work together in harmony and its gameplay mechanics are mainly focussed on a tedious grind. The current iteration is beset by bugs affecting a considerable portion of the player base in a variety of ways. In short it is a mess.
I genuinely hope it will get tidied up, integrated together, embrace the rich lore of the universe it resides in and, once again, become the definitive space game of the genre. That's going to take a lot of effort, but crucially it requires Fdev (the org) to acknowledge what has gone wrong, how they got here and figure out a way forward. That's a big ask. It's not impossible, but it's a big ask.
If I'm banned for this post, then so be it. I don't have time for such silly games. I feel this is fair and honest criticism. I hope to be back playing ED (and EDO) at some point in the future - when it's fixed. Until then, a fond farewell.
Right on, Commanders and o7.
Cheers,
Drew.
- Class of 84.
After what is effectively 9 years since the Kickstarter, the promises have worn very thin. As "Arf" says, words mean little. Actions are what matter. I had cautious hope for Beyond, that this would be the bringing together of everything in the game and make it a cohesive whole. Didn't really happen. I had similar hopes for Odyssey, as the "new era", they would go back and refactor everything about the game that had caused them problems in the past... new planetary tech, new version of Cobra, etc. Again, we know the story.
FDev continually makes the same mistakes over and over again... and every time I hope they've learned, and I set the bar lower and lower for each update, they always manage to disappoint. It's very sad.
We have lowered our expectations to an acceptable level of disappointment . Is the phrase I like to use .
Well the fallout from EDO has been considerable, and cut FD deep really for the first time- maybe it will be a painful lesson? But then, I look at SC and broken games are quite profitable, if you keep things tricking along. FD are nowhere near as bad but, well, I just wish they'd separate things out and have a regular balance update and then content updates.After what is effectively 9 years since the Kickstarter, the promises have worn very thin. As "Arf" says, words mean little. Actions are what matter. I had cautious hope for Beyond, that this would be the bringing together of everything in the game and make it a cohesive whole. Didn't really happen. I had similar hopes for Odyssey, as the "new era", they would go back and refactor everything about the game that had caused them problems in the past... new planetary tech, new version of Cobra, etc. Again, we know the story.
FDev continually makes the same mistakes over and over again... and every time I hope they've learned, and I set the bar lower and lower for each update, they always manage to disappoint. It's very sad.
To be fair the CMs started this, with balance passes but it got cut short with EDO coming. But it needs to come back to keep the space side fresh and coherent too. To be fair as well I think FD are working as hard as they can to get things ironed out, its just a shame that all this was not before and not after.
Sadly though it still shows no clear idea of what ED 'is'. ED has gone through four phases of teams / leadership (Brookes, Sandro, Chaos Period and Now™) and as time has gone on ED has slowly come apart, and ignored its own lore / internal consistency.
I don't know. I feel like ED was a light aircraft with a misfiring engine. Its glided as far as it could after getting airborne, but now its running out of altitude.
In a game where an owner of a Fleet Carrier "Megaship" has to him/herself refuel it by transferring fuel from the carrier to a ship then back to the carrier again, the EDO debacle should come as no surprise if stupid little details like this can make it to the final cut. I think it shows the real attitude, "it will do, shove it out of the door". There just doesn't seem to be any pride in the work. I don't mean at the individual level. I echo Drews comments on some of the hard working and passion shown by certain individuals. I love Sally and Zac especially. But it seems to me like there is a cultural failing. We are paying customers in the end, but I don't feel like one if I'm honest.
Not going to be drawn on this too much here in this thread, but SC is different in that it is not broken but simply unfinished and they have always been upfront about that. Honesty counts, at least for me. This makes Frontier worse than CIG in Odyssey's case IMO, because it wasn't released as early access.
Could've, should've, would've. Hindsight is a wonderful thing... but only when you learn from it and don't make the same mistakes over and over... as I said, institutional hubris is the problem more than the state of the game.
Correct. And supposedly, through all those leadership changes, Braben was supposedly the guiding hand. I remember an interview with Michael Brookes about a year after E: D was released, and he was asked what involvement David Braben still had in E: D if he was the one running things. His response was very clear - "It's David's game".
Either that was misleading, or Braben has lost interest, or there are other pressures internally at FDev that have caused this. I couldn't say.
For me it's like the new season of a television show that's been on telly for many years. I'm not sure if it's because I'm a little tired of the show, or if management are now using cheaper writers
When Elite: Dangerous was first launched you could see the attention to detail. One example of this was working out that the space stations were spinning at the correct rate to simulate gravity. An example of the lack of detail of Odyssey also involves gravity.. the kipple in the microgravity outposts that stick to the floor
When Elite: Dangerous was first launched you could see the attention to detail. One example of this was working out that the space stations were spinning at the correct rate to simulate gravity. An example of the lack of detail of Odyssey also involves gravity.. the kipple in the microgravity outposts that stick to the floor
They jumped the shark.
Broken, unfinished, constantly "fundraising", lies from day 1, $450 million spent, 9 years an alpha etc.
There really is no comparison to be made at all.
SC is an alpha sold as a real game when it suits (mainly for tax purposes and lawsuits by irate engine devs). Ships are sold based on future gameplay and plots of land sold, along with continually broken releases that never really get better. FD should have marked it early access (so in some ways they are similar), but they don't sell Panther Clipper pictures either. I find it comical that people hold up SC monthly updates when a lot of the time SC cut content or kick the can down the road. People who back SC are used to it now, while EDO has shown a lot of players ED side what that feels like.
And thats true- FD have flip flopped between GaaS and monolithic releases and internally its chopped and changed. But now its hit the share price, which really ups the ante- and on Brabens reason and calling card.
I think DB is concerned with Frontier as a whole, and has delegated.Correct. And supposedly, through all those leadership changes, Braben was supposedly the guiding hand. I remember an interview with Michael Brookes about a year after E: D was released, and he was asked what involvement David Braben still had in E: D if he was the one running things. His response was very clear - "It's David's game".
Either that was misleading, or Braben has lost interest, or there are other pressures internally at FDev that have caused this. I couldn't say.
A very good analogy!
You get to fly on animals in the new NMS update 
- flay safe
- flay safe- Status