Drew Wagar's Thoughts

[Darth Ender]

You're building a windy mobile of speculations here... Hopefully it will remain windless. Of course, we can also throw rubber ducks at each other if you like.

well, it doesn't have to be speculation. it could be addressed by fdev as to why they released what they did (which would go far into explaining why they're reacting the way they're reacting this time). But i doubt that more than I doubt powerplay is going to be completed in patch 7.

but since this thread and the community's repeated interest in free labor for content or suggestions ...has no hope of making fdev do anything they haven't already planned on doing (beyond minor tweaks to balances)... i'll start throwing rubber ducks

 

[Dextio]

Depends on what: "positivity" means to you.

Which is my real friend, when I get a delusion that I can fly, and want to jump off a building? -The smiling sycophant who eggs me on, or the killjoy who tries to talk sense into me? :7

Ok, I've spammed this thread more than enough, by now. tries to put restrainer on typing fingers

Hmm, there's a fallacy in this analogy, but will let it go. I feel like we can dance around this all day ;-)

 

[Gully Foyle]

Drew is pretty spot on.
In my opinion elite requires immediate, urgent, and substantial attention, at all costs.

Flimley

Seconded

 

[Gully Foyle]

In which case, I will happily pay you a tenner...



It used to be a bag under that hedge, but the badgers kept getting a bit randy with passing dogs, so I had to move the whole lot into my storage unit (a crappy old shed).

Now I have the whole problem living/being stored in the garden, but at least I have gotten the council off my back. Plus it means I don't hang around the park so much, which is a good thing for everyone I imagine....



Being the owner of so much stuphs is not an easy job...

Sitting on a park bench

 

[Slange Lands]

Thank you Drew for all you have done for Elite.

When I was in my first 1000 hours of playing, of which I now have at least 6000 hours, I really did not understand why the Alliance, Feds and Imps were always at each others' throats. Their goals of prosperity for all seemed reasonable to me. Yet, their political power struggles had no meaning for me. So then I bought two of Drew's books and read them. It was only through Drew's books that I really could understand how the mindsets of Imperials differ from Feds and the Alliance. Drew's story of the travails and triumphs of an unloved but determined young daughter of an Imperial Senator made the Elite Dangerous universe much more alive for me.

I will always be grateful for that.
o7

 

[Bottom Hat]

Thank you Drew for all you have done for Elite.

When I was in my first 1000 hours of playing, of which I now have at least 6000 hours, I really did not understand why the Alliance, Feds and Imps were always at each others' throats. Their goals of prosperity for all seemed reasonable to me. Yet, their political power struggles had no meaning for me. So then I bought two of Drew's books and read them. It was only through Drew's books that I really could understand how the mindsets of Imperials differ from Feds and the Alliance. Drew's story of the travails and triumphs of an unloved but determined young daughter of an Imperial Senator made the Elite Dangerous universe much more alive for me.

I will always be grateful for that.
o7

I hear that - Drew's books bought the universe alive for me too.

 

[khalismur]

Fully agree with Drew, very well said.

 

[Straker]

Drew makes a lot of good points in his video and I agree with them all. It is a video aimed at providing suggestions for correcting Frontier's strategic mistakes with ED. It is not a video about specific things he wants to see in the game that will 'fix' the perceived issues. It's more about how they develop the game and their lack of engagement with the community and the vast expertise (with ED) contained within it. ED is a live-service game and the way Frontier engages with the community does not reflect the style of game they are developing.

My hope is that people see the video as being aimed at the strategic focus and direction of Frontier and not just someone trying to be negative because from what I've seen, Drew is not a negative guy and always tries to be positive when given the opportunity.

 

[[VR] Orodruin]

New players shouldn't get a G5 Corvette for free just so they can fight a Thargoid 10 minutes

Let me tell you the tragic story of commander Clark Barrow ...

 

[buzzx]

I think what Drews points also highlights is the greatest problem of all with the development of this game and all software to some extent. The people in charge of making decisions about design and development don't actually play or use the software 10+ hours a week like the rest of us. They therefore inevitably end up more focused on other outcomes like deadlines, financials, work loads, or future revenue streams etc. This is where Drews point about community engagement and expertise hits the nail on the head. We are the players/testers with thousands of hours under our belt so they need to find a way to harness that. A simple example of the complete blindness of development is something like the comms phrases that you see come up from time to time that have been the same since the start. For example messages about "wedding barges". This would take literally 10 minutes of development time to think up 10 new random phrases and plonk them into the RNG phrase picker. An easy but simple and nice addition to the game. Hell instead wasting time on live streams watching someone play the game why not post a thread in the forum asking for comms suggestions for general chatter or NPC insults. The community could come up with thousands in a day. They just have to filter out the obscene ones then copy, paste, recompile! So so many little things like this. Why not give us an ideas board where we can submit low development time items that we can vote on.

 

[Franc Kaos]

Fdev changing is like asking a glacier to turn 90* - now! It ain't happening unless whoever is in charge of gameplay loops is promoted sideways. Drew's great but he knows what Fdev is like, not sure why he thinks they might listen this time.

Let me buy scopes and night sight for my suits and guns. It's ridiculous they're locked behind a grindingly tedious crafting loop.

 

[photomankc]

Care to explain why I should?

Nope. I wouldn’t care to in the slightest.

 

[Bigmaec]

I always wonder why they don't post their content themselves.
Although to be fair, Drew often does, as does OA lately.

Anyways, Game alive, Game on...

 

[Nerix]

The only area I kinda disagree with Drew is the regarding gating. I'm definitely not a supporter of grind, but I do think there should be a sense of progression and leveling up. New players shouldn't get a G5 Corvette for free just so they can fight a Thargoid 10 minutes after they start a new CMDR. On the other hand, if humanity is at war with the Thargoids, then humanity should be supplying the necessary weapons to fight those Thargoids.

This is where I wish ED had a proper player-driven economy and supply chain. Anti-Thargoid weapons should be purchasable, but imagine if Guardian materials are needed by factories to assemble them. This would allow CMDRs who love hauling stuff to gather and sell Guardian materials to factories which in turn create weapons that combat pilots can buy for their ships. This allows people with different play styles to embrace those play styles with a sense of purpose without forcing one player to be a "jack of all trades" just to do the one thing they really want to do.

Same goes for engineering - some CMDRs love the process of gathering materials and engineering modules, where others just want the end product so they can play the game they want. A [regulated] player market that would allow players to exchange goods (engineered weapons, suits, and even ships) would be amazing IMO. This could even be done between players in solo based on how the game works. Of course to prevent the market from getting flooded, rebuys would need to be reconsidered (no more magic resurrection of engineered modules).

Yes, I know, it kinda sounds like Eve, but I'm thinking more like Eve Lite, where the nuances of the economy is handled behind the scenes and balanced by the fact that NPCs also interact with Elite's galaxy. I'm also thinking of using the cool part of Eve to make Elite less grindy rather than more grindy, while still maintaining a sense of progress (because you'll still need credits and reputation to buy all this stuff).

That'd great indeed, but would require a complete overhaul of how the economic system in ED works. Now it's basically a static one, where the Dev's have to flip many numbers manually (at least that's my impression from the adjustments being made to commodity prices in the past).

And a good working, dynamic economy model is complex, so not happening. And as much I'd like to have this, considering the amount of work and maintenance this would require, FDev should probably focus on other parts of the game.

 

[Engelious]

ON THE GRIND:
I find myself somewhat agreeing with Drew, but i don't think the grind of the game is the precise issue.
Honestly, i think the grindy nature, and extreme that ED is and EDO is, are some of the few things keeping it alive.
Not having a grind, are great for triple AAA games who wants players around for 25-40h of gameplay. A game like this were your hope is players reaching 1000h+
cadre to another player segment entirely.

At current the grind is to imbalanced, in both modes. ED/EDO. It should not be a requirement to do Log-off-ski farming, if you whant to get into a specific role
with in a weeks time, or a specific engineer. That flaws the game, and does not entice multiplayer interaction.

The grind has issues no doubt, but the grind itself is properly what keeps a large part of the community alive.
u can be a casual player ind ED and in some extent EDO, and still slowly get what u need for playing.

The issue that Grind has, is the balance of it, and the loop. accessibility and spawn rates are for sure on the side of punishing and needs adjustment.

On the general game:
Overall ED / EDO are grind games, wich target group is by definition Players willing to set long-term goals, and work hard to get there.
That single aspect is I'm quite sure, what is still making the game live. despite its many flawed methods of having players do this.

Multiplayer:
ED's biggest issue, from birth and till this date is the multiplayer side of it, the MMO side of it, the community side of it.
The game does very little, to give u an incentive to play with others, other than thats what you as a person prefer.
The peer to peer networking for Team / Wing, is by default flawed for a game this size, causing so many issues with
connection fails, CTD's and general instancing failures.

Thoughts:
FDEV is at a very precarious point with the game, where gaming culture and general sentiment for games has changed during the past 10 years,
FDEV is still acting like we were in 2012.

With the launch of odyssey, they opened up a can of worms that had been bottled up for YEARS.

Many players loving the game with its flaws, expected to see a modern release, anno 2021 - and not another 2012 release of a flawed product.
further, FDEV has had poor management towards finishing aspects of the game, and bugs that are as old as the game it self.

FDEV's blindness is perfectly expressed in Odyssey engineering, where they go BACK to a system, already proven not to work in the original ED.
This shows such a clear failure to understand your own player base, history and current gaming culture that is mind boggling.

Alot of the tube, strem and general content creators going so salty that even a saltmine seems less toxic, is in earnest their own doing.
For years, they promised improvements that just hasn't happened.

Unless FDev manage to bring their work and devlopment style in to the 2021 era, the game will have serious future issues with the consequences that follows.

THe game Wont Die, but it will eventually become a lot smaller game (player-wise) and the future will not hold much content, since there aint money to be had
in a product too few will play.
as such i consider this the Pivot of ED's future.

Either they get their act together, and the game will grow and expand with future content and player bases


or

'They continue their 2012 ways, and the game will not be viable for future money spending on content and expansions.


LAST:

im a diehard fan of the game, and i love it to bits. I see its flaws and the future that brings unless changed.
i highly doubt that FDEV have the willingness / resolve to truly change their ways around elite dangerous.
So ill play the game, love its good sides, enjoy the fun i have with good freinds and teams......

ED is litterly on a timer, if they dont step up, its only a matter of time before another develepor sees a marked, and cash opportunity
THERE IS SO MANY PLAYERS OUT THERE, who loves this gametype... otherwise SC would never have gotten so MANY millions of $$$$
for something that dosent even come close to being a game.

Wen gaming history will look back at ED/EDO im quite sure that This point in time, will be were they will place the singe point.
Either it will be a story of an amazing comeback, or the one of "were it all went wrong."


Thats my 2 bits.

 

[zimms]

I always wonder why they don't post their content themselves.
Although to be fair, Drew often does, as does OA lately.

Anyways, Game alive, Game on...

Because they'd get even more hate for self promotion.

There are already enough condescending posts in this thread and it would be much worse. Some people really don't like "content creators" posting their opinion online - while posting their opinion on this forum. There's some irony to that.

 

[CMDR Saigon]

For those who haven't seen it yet. Here are Drew's thoughts on Odyssey.

Source: https://youtu.be/qGsQUSd-9cM?t=170

Great constructive feedback!

 

[Engelious]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SbLPULbqIU

 

[Comandante]

That'd great indeed, but would require a complete overhaul of how the economic system in ED works. Now it's basically a static one, where the Dev's have to flip many numbers manually (at least that's my impression from the adjustments being made to commodity prices in the past).

And a good working, dynamic economy model is complex, so not happening. And as much I'd like to have this, considering the amount of work and maintenance this would require, FDev should probably focus on other parts of the game.

Speaking for Odyssey only, not sure it would need an overhaul of the economic system; I played the game organically (no grinding - to begin...) and I was able to get almost all materials and data that I needed, albeit a few missions apart at times.

The only bottlenecks were Opinion Polls and Settlement Defense Plans. These were woefully lacking. The other data types - entertainment type media for Beck, Financial Projections for Velasquez, the genetic/biological-based needed for Geiger etc. - I was getting those in small, healthy doses such that I felt that I was getting somewhere.

When it became clear that it was going to take well over a year (closer to two years) to just collect enough Opinion Polls, I took to the relog - out of frustration at the same time just after patch 5 since I could no longer play the way I was getting used to.

Regardless of that - +1 @drew , great video - short, succinct and to the point. I've added FDev listening - and acting on - your points in your video to my Christmas list. All I need to do now is be good for the rest of the year.

A part of me wants to talk about some of the points in more detail - but a (greater) part of me knows that even if any of this got through to FDev, they wouldn't listen and Super Cruise News is going to be the greatest communication connection between us and them that we could ever hope for. That saddens me having been one of the KS backers - I think I was spoiled to have been 'involved' - on whatever level - from the start, to what we have now. Still, criticisms aside I am really enjoying Odyssey.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Because they'd get even more hate for self promotion.

There are already enough condescending posts in this thread and it would be much worse. Some people really don't like "content creators" posting their opinion online - while posting their opinion on this forum. There's some irony to that.

The forum is full of irony, I'm pretty cetain you may have noticed that already - little things like a member suggesting that Frontier lose enough money to have to let Devs go, but disliking when the same analogy is made back to themselves... (that one was a doozy!)

Even your own post is doing exactly that which you are making a comment on, Ironic?

Drew did some lore, wrote a couple of books on the back of the elite galaxy - was there anything else of import?

I'd have considered, with his excellent writing skills, that he might have delivered a written summary of his opinions too, for those who prefer the flavour of the written word rather then yet another video selling "snake oil" (as some of the CCs & influencers claim ED is either dying or offer their own "surefire" ways to get it back on its feet)