Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Dementropy]

I don't have any numbers to back this up, but I think Arts/Design/Marketing people are more likely to use/update Linkedin than the tech guys.

Marketing definitely, but LinkedIn stats get murky when trying to tease apart professional marketers vs. people who use LinkedIn for marketing. The latter will always skew demographics because they saturate every platform.

Were Shakespeare alive today, I suspect it wouldn't just be the lawyers he'd want to eradicate.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I thought Arts & Design was typically the majority of ppl (well, apart from Marketing ) on a game? Like Valheim only had a handful of people - one was a dev, the rest were down as design & art I think.

I think so. A couple write logic. The rest creates the world. Writing, painting, animating and so on. Of course you don't need so much modelling on a 2D game - and that's why those usually are quite spiffy with game mechanics.

 

[Space Menace]

You have got to remember the good old days. We would be able to fly out from our own hangars and return to them when we wanted to.
I had a number of ships early on & top hangar. This was the first I bought:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgMZCftgQQM


Them were the days lad... aye lad, them were the days.

 

[Gregstrom]

Marketing definitely, but LinkedIn stats get murky when trying to tease apart professional marketers vs. people who use LinkedIn for marketing. The latter will always skew demographics because they saturate every platform.

Were Shakespeare alive today, I suspect it wouldn't just be the lawyers he'd want to eradicate.

Douglas Adams took over nicely on the ideas front.

 

[Space Menace]

One of the reasons a mate of mine and me moved over to building games (space ones). The scale in games like Space Engineers and Empyrion is way ahead of ED, SC, X4 etc.. Plus we wanted air, pressurised areas, make and feed the fuel to the engines and make/store the power. There is so much more in building ships than flying someone elses.

This video he made back in 2014 is a gem imo, he made videos that captured the scale of ships and environments in space building games, compared with the usual standard space game. The ships were a truer size, you were able to walk around and explore the ships in larger areas.

This wasn't his or my ship, but one from the w/s all those years back. It was a great reproduction of a Freelancer but in a 'proper' scale. He built his own freelancer, better than this one, but I can't find a video of it.

Anyway a Freelancer Constellation. In Space Engineers (2014).

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8wb6gGAMw

 

[Intrepid3D]

One of the reasons a mate of mine and me moved over to building games (space ones). The scale in games like Space Engineers and Empyrion is way ahead of ED, SC, X4 etc.. Plus we wanted air, pressurised areas, make and feed the fuel to the engines and make/store the power. There is so much more in building ships than flying someone elses.

This video he made back in 2014 is a gem imo, he made videos that captured the scale of ships and environments in space building games, compared with the usual standard space game. The ships were a truer size, you were able to walk around and explore the ships in larger areas.

This wasn't his or my ship, but one from the w/s all those years back. It was a great reproduction of a Freelancer but in a 'proper' scale. He built his own freelancer, better than this one, but I can't find a video of it.

Anyway a Freelancer Constellation. In Space Engineers (2014).

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8wb6gGAMw

Cool.

For real...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvKF_ecRcso

 

[Space Menace]

Cool.

For real...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvKF_ecRcso

Nice. Is it automatic docking now ?

 

[Intrepid3D]

Nice. Is it automatic docking now ?

Yes, you can do it manually, tho i don't recomend it its very difficult, or automatic. In the video it was automatic.

 

[VR Golgot]

I find this guy incredibly endearing, with his earnest take on all things CIG...

Here's his lovely 'for the layman' presentation on the Server Meshing plans, full of fluffy dreams and delightful diagrams...

And some interesting turns of phrase...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDXX4JEnagU&t=463s

That would be 'Static Server Meshing', and anybody who knows human nature, much less gamer nature, will immediately see why it would be an utter disaster...

He's close, but for the wrong reasons. It wouldn't be a disaster. He thinks everything would break if everyone headed to 'the Orison server' and smashed it. But CIG could just use instancing for each geographical location. Job done. A workable system. And planetary servers do seem to be their target for 'SSM'. (It would just imperil stuff like seamless transitions, and wouldn't be the '100k players in one area' dreamland. So a dream death disaster maybe. But hey. It'd work )

He then goes on for another 7 minutes to talk about 'Dynamic Server Meshing' dreams though. And lord love him, he recognises a lot of the challenges. (If postulating fairly pointlessly about limiting sniper ranges between servers, while forgetting about ship combat ranges...). But throughout he talks about it very much in terms of it happening...

What I hope this really impresses you is that the full implementation of 'Dynamic Server Meshing' will be truly revolutionary both in terms of having a much more lively dynamic and densely populated world but also in something really never having been done before. Having game servers communicate through the back end so that one can see the other, having game servers be completely isolated, is something that has been a hard rule from the start of multiplayer online games. I hope this is make you much more appreciative of how massive a challenge the full dynamic server meshing implementation will be

And how does he describe the magic sauce that will make all this never-done-before stuff happen?

The most likely way all this will get accomplished is by some sort of huge back-end process where we're all reporting everything going on on our local servers and some sort of back-end process based on size and distance informs each of the other servers of the extra things that they have to render to their users.

Ahhhhh OK. Big backend thingies. Sounds like a plan.

Can't imagine CIG not getting that to work, and getting stuck with very-much-done-before fixed regional instances. That'd be disastrous

 

[Intrepid3D]

Well that's why it's odd that so many cmdr's are have been playing it when so many here had been saying it was unplayable and there was nothing to do...
There's a great disparity between what was said about the state of this game, if it was due to ignorance or malice that is still to be decided. Probably a bit of both.

Kate's still going with their series so her sc "honey moon phase" seems to have lasted way longer than her odyssey did.
Hawks and many other cmdr's likewise

And I've been watching D2EA stream it for a while now, seems they are flying in Bespin from Star Wars.

How cool is that?

They loaded in with a whole instance to themselves

Source: https://youtu.be/8BVomPECso0?t=2993

 

[Intrepid3D]

I find this guy incredibly endearing, with his earnest take on all things CIG...

Here's his lovely 'for the layman' presentation on the Server Meshing plans, full of fluffy dreams and delightful diagrams...

And some interesting turns of phrase...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDXX4JEnagU&t=463s




He's close, but for the wrong reasons. It wouldn't be a disaster. He thinks everything would break if everyone headed to 'the Orison server' and smashed it. But CIG could just use instancing for each geographical location. Job done. A workable system. And planetary servers do seem to be their target for 'SSM'. (It would just imperil stuff like seamless transitions, and wouldn't be the '100k players in one area' dreamland. So a dream death disaster maybe. But hey. It'd work )

He then goes on for another 7 minutes to talk about 'Dynamic Server Meshing' dreams though. And lord love him, he recognises a lot of the challenges. (If postulating fairly pointlessly about limiting sniper ranges between servers, while forgetting about ship combat ranges...). But throughout he talks about it very much in terms of it happening...



And how does he describe the magic sauce that will make all this never-done-before stuff happen?



Ahhhhh OK. Big backend thingies. Sounds like a plan.

Can't imagine CIG not getting that to work, and getting stuck with very-much-done-before fixed regional instances. That'd be disastrous

This is excellent stuff.

Its like i said in a Discord conversation about this a couple of days ago, what CIG are doing is not meshing multiple servers running multiple instances but meshing multiple servers in a single instance.

In the former all you're doing is keeping live persistence across multiple servers, but you still have to load between instances, so if my friend is on a different server i have to load in to his instance or he to mine.

SC right now you have 50 people per server, lets say Stanton has 200 people in it, there are around 50 at MicroTech, 50 at Hurston, 50 at Crusader and 50 at ArcCorp.
In this case each planet would run its own server.
Now here is the fun part, lets say those 200 people all wanted to pile in to an 890 Jump, what would happen then is the 890 Jump gets split in to 4 servers, for arguments sake lets say 4 quarters, lets say the main lobby of the 890 is one server, there 40 people in it, lets say 30 people come out of their bedrooms, dining areas ecte... and move to the lobby, this is the point where now with 70 people on that server it will start to fall down.

This is how CIG would get thousands of people in to a single instance and no loading between servers, but it is not fool proof because you can't infinitely tighten down the amount of servers running a space, as he said you can't have 4 servers dividing up a single room, if you wanted to break it cram 200 people into your hab room.

And no, that ^^^^ as far as i'm aware has never been done before. And i would imagine extremely complex.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I find this guy incredibly endearing, with his earnest take on all things CIG...

Here's his lovely 'for the layman' presentation on the Server Meshing plans, full of fluffy dreams and delightful diagrams...

And some interesting turns of phrase...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDXX4JEnagU&t=463s




He's close, but for the wrong reasons. It wouldn't be a disaster. He thinks everything would break if everyone headed to 'the Orison server' and smashed it. But CIG could just use instancing for each geographical location. Job done. A workable system. And planetary servers do seem to be their target for 'SSM'. (It would just imperil stuff like seamless transitions, and wouldn't be the '100k players in one area' dreamland. So a dream death disaster maybe. But hey. It'd work )

He then goes on for another 7 minutes to talk about 'Dynamic Server Meshing' dreams though. And lord love him, he recognises a lot of the challenges. (If postulating fairly pointlessly about limiting sniper ranges between servers, while forgetting about ship combat ranges...). But throughout he talks about it very much in terms of it happening...



And how does he describe the magic sauce that will make all this never-done-before stuff happen?



Ahhhhh OK. Big backend thingies. Sounds like a plan.

Can't imagine CIG not getting that to work, and getting stuck with very-much-done-before fixed regional instances. That'd be disastrous

Is it BlueDrake? Sounds like BlueDrake. BD likes to hype up any sheet that comes up and it's the coming of the future of all gaming. This changes everything. Yadayada. Most of the stuff doesn't even hit early access phase and actually never has any impact on gaming.
It's usually FP shooter stuff. With the odd really interesting concept. Last I heard is him working on a FP shooter project himself. It's even past the prototype stage now.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

This is excellent stuff.

Its like i said in a Discord conversation about this a couple of days ago, what CIG are doing is not meshing multiple servers running multiple instances but meshing multiple servers in a single instance.

In the former all you're doing is keeping live persistence across multiple servers, but you still have to load between instances, so if my friend is on a different server i have to load in to his instance or he to mine.

SC right now you have 50 people per server, lets say Stanton has 200 people in it, there are around 50 at MicroTech, 50 at Hurston, 50 at Crusader and 50 at ArcCorp.
In this case each planet would run its own server.
Now here is the fun part, lets say those 200 people all wanted to pile in to an 890 Jump, what would happen then is the 890 Jump gets split in to 4 servers, for arguments sake lets say 4 quarters, lets say the main lobby of the 890 is one server, there 40 people in it, lets say 30 people come out of their bedrooms, dining areas ecte... and move to the lobby, this is the point where now with 70 people on that server it will start to fall down.

This is how CIG would get thousands of people in to a single instance and no loading between servers, but it is not fool proof because you can't infinitely tighten down the amount of servers running a space, as he said you can't have 4 servers dividing up a single room, if you wanted to break it cram 200 people into your hab room.

And no, that ^^^^ as far as i'm aware has never been done before. And i would imagine extremely complex.

Which 890 Jump? The one at Hurston or at Crusader? Or is there just one 890 Jump at every system?

 

[StuartGT]

This is excellent stuff.

Its like i said in a Discord conversation about this a couple of days ago, what CIG are doing is not meshing multiple servers running multiple instances but meshing multiple servers in a single instance.

In the former all you're doing is keeping live persistence across multiple servers, but you still have to load between instances, so if my friend is on a different server i have to load in to his instance or he to mine.

SC right now you have 50 people per server, lets say Stanton has 200 people in it, there are around 50 at MicroTech, 50 at Hurston, 50 at Crusader and 50 at ArcCorp.
In this case each planet would run its own server.
Now here is the fun part, lets say those 200 people all wanted to pile in to an 890 Jump, what would happen then is the 890 Jump gets split in to 4 servers, for arguments sake lets say 4 quarters, lets say the main lobby of the 890 is one server, there 40 people in it, lets say 30 people come out of their bedrooms, dining areas ecte... and move to the lobby, this is the point where now with 70 people on that server it will start to fall down.

This is how CIG would get thousands of people in to a single instance and no loading between servers, but it is not fool proof because you can't infinitely tighten down the amount of servers running a space, as he said you can't have 4 servers dividing up a single room, if you wanted to break it cram 200 people into your hab room.

And no, that ^^^^ as far as i'm aware has never been done before. And i would imagine extremely complex.

Dual Universe does it.

That's the overall goal of CIG's dynamic server meshing that they've talked about for many years.

CIG's first step, static server meshing, is what's currently in development and would act like traditional location-based (i.e. "map") instancing, with Quantum Travel being the transition medium (like Elite's jump to/from SuperCruise is).

 

[Intrepid3D]

Which 890 Jump? The one at Hurston or at Crusader? Or is there just one 890 Jump at every system?

Just one. It could be anywhere, lets say its at Everest Harbour, which is in orbit at Hurston, its already its own server with 50 people on it, there are 200 people total across Stanton on 4 servers.
Those same 200 people all make their way to the 890, new servers are spun up just for the 890, you as the player are handed from server to server as you're moving across the system until eventually you board the 890 and you're passed on to that final server, if you're coming from Crusader and were the last to leave that system its server gets shut down as you're handed out of it, there is no one there so there is no need to keep it running.
If however the 201'st person loads in and spawns at Orison a new server for Crusader will spin up.

@StuartGT thanks

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Just one. It could be anywhere, lets say its at Everest Harbour, which is in orbit at Hurston, its already its own server with 50 people on it, there are 200 people total across Stanton on 4 servers.
Those same 200 people all make their way to the 890, new servers are spun up just for the 890, you as the player are handed from server to server as you're moving across the system until eventually you board the 890 and you're passed on to that final server, if you're coming from Crusader and were the last to leave that system its server gets shut down as you're handed out of it, there is no one there so there is no need to keep it running.
If however the 201'st person loads in and spawns at Orison a new server for Crusader will spin up.

@StuartGT thanks

So this one ship is like a gateway to other places? I go from Algol to 890 and leave to Rigel. Like the resto at the end of the universe?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

But what if I wanted to pack the cow dung in cargo hold and along comes Mole and claims he has a load of Harlech peach spirits? And then Littel Ant comes and vents both our cargo in the void? What if I want a ship for me own? Maybe I don't need all this meshugga stuff.

 

[Intrepid3D]

But what if I wanted to pack the cow dung in cargo hold and along comes Mole and claims he has a load of Harlech peach spirits? And then Littel Ant comes and vents both our cargo in the void? What if I want a ship for me own? Maybe I don't need all this meshugga stuff.

Those servers don't have physical walls that are the hull of the ship, vented cargo would still run on the same server until i guess its out of sight.
You could take offence to Moles cow and get the Captains Yacht out of the hanger to run off in a huff to do your own thing, you will remain on the same server until such time you're out of the range where you could have an effect on the 890 at which point you're handed to a different server..
What you see and do client side is simply maths to the server, the server doesn't have boundaries, it just asks "how much workload can i handle, is it necessary for me to continue with this person or can i hand them off to another server that might be more relevant to them?"

 

[Xink]

Smells like cow manure to me.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Those servers don't have physical walls that are the hull of the ship, vented cargo would still run on the same server until i guess its out of sight.
You could take offence to Moles cow and get the Captains Yacht out of the hanger to run off in a huff to do your own thing, you will remain on the same server until such time you're out of the range where you could have an effect on the 890 at which point you're handed to a different server..
What you see and do client side is simply maths to the server, the server doesn't have boundaries, it just asks "how much workload can i handle, is it necessary for me to continue with this person or can i hand them off to another server that might be more relevant to them?"

So it's all different 890 Jumps but in the same instance? Is like Mole selects the Easy listening muzak Radio staion, I opt for hard rock, and Agony Auntie wants Electropop and now the server meshes all three broadcasts into one and transmits it loud and proud to everyone.