Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
sovapid said:
No, that can't be. It is impossible. Or so I've heard.
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For DU? Who’ve had their networking solution at the heart of their design from the very start? Who knows man, it’s a long shot. Most of their single shard stuff with significant numbers (30k+ etc) has only been executed with simulated clients, not players, right?

Currently DU seems to be lumbered with poor performance and to have a correspondingly low player count, as backers stay away (including you ;))

But could they get the tech to some kind of launch state? Maybe. Guess we’ll see.

But CIG, who are still popping rivets just maintaining classic 50 player instances after 8+ years in dev? Who were only at this stage in 2020:

VR Golgot said:
  • Devs were still talking in terms of design hypotheticals [April 2020]
  • They had only recently tried getting 2 servers to talk to each other. [Aug 2020]
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Who thought they’d have all this in by 2018. And are currently struggling just to add 'tier 0' servers for fixed zones like planets?

Zero chance. Zero chance of ever hosting 30K players in a dynamic nest of ever-scaling servers forming a single shard. Sure :)
 

cigwatch

cigwatch
The advances of unconstrained streaming achieved in 2018 already allowed CIG to increase the number of players on a single server to over a hundred. In 2019 they will be able to handle up to two hundred players in a single room. The game will be played on a single instance, making it possible for thousands of players to experience the same seamless reality of the 'Verse.
 

thistle

T
VR Golgot said:
For DU? Who’ve had their networking solution at the heart of their design from the very start? Who knows man, it’s a long shot. Most of their single shard stuff with significant numbers (30k+ etc) has only been executed with simulated clients, not players, right?
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Quite. Surely the only way to get this sort of complex system working is by by forgetting the graphics bells&whistles at the start, and get the design sorted first, then test it actually works at scale. And as you say, any demonstrations of the DU shard with thousands of players seems to be "simulated" clients rather than actual clients, and without anything other than their avatars running around a planet.

CIG have started by creating the art assets, stitched them together in to a "game", in a static single level without any semblance of planetary orbits, and THEN tried to create the shard networking after the fact.

Sorry, not tried to create, told the backers they are trying to create.
 

thistle

T
cigwatch said:
The advances of unconstrained streaming achieved in 2018 already allowed CIG to increase the number of players on a single server to over a hundred. In 2019 they will be able to handle up to two hundred players in a single room. The game will be played on a single instance, making it possible for thousands of players to experience the same seamless reality of the 'Verse.
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Imagine what wonders 2020 will bring!
 

thistle

T
Mole HD said:
Well...this is interesting :whistle:

Why does this entire discussion remind me of this I wonder?

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I have cows in my field (well, I say my, I mean the one next to my house :D )

Stupid, stupid cows. If I go in to my garden and clatter about, they will look up and stare at me. And stare. And stare .... until they visibly seem to forget, wait, what was I looking over there for?

(edit - you previously explained what type of cows they were for me based on their colour :) They will be going for the chop soon I think, to the inevitable horror of the little girl who has moved in next door, her mum told me she had named all the cows and shouts to them lol)
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
thistle said:
I have cows in my field (well, I say my, I mean the one next to my house :D )

Stupid, stupid cows. If I go in to my garden and clatter about, they will look up and stare at me. And stare. And stare .... until they visibly seem to forget, wait, what was I looking over there for?

(edit - you previously explained what type of cows they were for me based on their colour :) They will be going for the chop soon I think, to the inevitable horror of the little girl who has moved in next door, her mum told me she had named all the cows and shouts to them lol)
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They must be those nice kind of cows...mine tend to frighten small children :D

7wYZuce.jpg
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
thistle said:
Sorry, not tried to create, told the backers they are trying to create
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I’d say they genuinely have been trying to make Chris’s bizarre power of the cloud babble a reality. Despite the long odds and painfully slow progress.

But given the solid form of Agent’s sources in predicting Turbulent’s upscaling and new roles, including the move into networking… I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is now true too…

TheAgent said:
  • "server meshing" in its original form is scrapped completely as of Q4 2020
  • "no possible way to make it work" with thousands of players in a single instance
  • going forward, areas will be partitioned into about 100 players although "might be less"
  • this is not per system but per arbitrary "zone," that might include planetary bodies, outposts, platforms, etc
  • currently this is working in test bed internals (lol yeah okay we'll loving see)
  • this will be downplayed as "tier 0" or "test version" but will see "no significant improvements"
  • being handled by Turbulent who immediately scrapped the earlier designs and brought in new ideas
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[VR] Merkir

[VR] Merkir
VR Golgot said:
I’d say they genuinely have been trying to make Chris’s bizarre power of the cloud babble a reality. Despite the long odds and painfully slow progress.

But given the solid form of Agent’s sources in predicting Turbulent’s upscaling and new roles, including the move into networking… I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is now true too…
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going forward, areas will be partitioned into about 100 players although "might be less"
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Eventually CIG will have to face reality. They may even reach it one day. The above is one step closer. They've even pre-empted their next step towards reality with "might be less".
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
[VR] Merkir said:
On a more serious note, here's how Dual universe does it:

Source: https://youtu.be/QeZtqoydXpc
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"does it" *

*Larger players numbers only in simulated clients
*Really poor performance so far for real players
*Low player count actually playing it due to poor performance among other issues

And Novaquark attempted this from the ground up. Now imagine a developer trying this following only after assets and gameplay design decisions (which already have a certain network budget) not only have already been taken, but sold to the public.
 
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cigwatch

cigwatch
[VR] Merkir said:
On a more serious note, here's how Dual universe does it:

Source: https://youtu.be/QeZtqoydXpc
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  1. They are saying the simulated players are able to interact with each other but nothing in the video demonstrates it. They are walking in a straight line, nothing more. In this kind of demo, game-breaking lag can be hidden in plain sight. It is the same with that famous 30 000 players video.
  2. Nice that it confirms that they also use the octree approach (see Aether Engine).
  3. Smart approach with fewer updates for players further away.
  4. They are still not really "doing it", do they?
  5. Toilet gameplay confirmed!
    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOdWb7KTZ5I
 
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