Drew Wagar's Thoughts

[Oztig]

I can't see Star Citizen doing anything but collapsing under the weight of hundreds of unnecessarily simulated systems and the inherent pay to win nature of the game.

That being said, their fitting system is leagues better than Elite: Dagnerous system and allows for much more player choice. The addition of ships designed for multi-crew is also nice. But yeah, I just can't see it succeeding. There are definetly some things Elite could learn from it though.

Yep,

they've certainly got the take money from people side of the game finely tuned.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Tourist Beacons - Elite Dangerous Utilities

Elite Dangerous Utilities - A table of Tourist Beacons in Elite Dangerous

elitedangerous.hozbase.co.uk

Sirius is my home base for 1500 hours and until I found the above page I never read those beacons.

Hmm... is that a complete list? Somehow I always thought there'd be more than 'just' 300 beacons in the game.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

There could be pictures, sure. There could be CG's .. and in fact there HAVE been CG's. Colonia Bridge recently will have a direct result, from player actions and if you participated, you'll have a story to tell. The megaships will be added by hand - and maybe the ambition could be for global lore to generate itself some time - but the games Drew harkens back to .. back when Elite did apparently have it's soul .. had none of that. Maybe First Encounters had some in game lore (the only one I didn't play) but all you're seeing in ED today is the Dark Wheel (lore/ novel) being delivered digitally.

That doesn't mean it's not there and while Galnet is still delivering I don't think it's helpful to dump on Frontier for doing something else for a bit (EDO) or saying it's disconnected from the space game when clearly EDO is not done with either. NPC's to interact with are going in (today I think) and they're another tool the game can tell stories through. Probably the most effective yet. The Codex is cool and all but is very, very dry relatively speaking.

I could be wrong of course but the way I understood Drew's "soul" commentary was that this was aimed squarely at EDO in isolation. Story stuff (including tangible assets being added like the megaship bridge as you mentioned) is still ongoing but it's 100% Horizons content. EDO added zilch in terms of lore as far as I could tell. To what extent the delayed consoles launch can be blamed for that, I don't know.

As for EDO not being "done", well it was sold as a feature complete DLC. Things have clearly changed due to the fact it's indeed incomplete (to what extent we don't know) and we'll get the missing bits over time, most likely. Which is quite the opposite of what was promised. Basically it's seasonal content all over again.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

It's a sandbox. The main story sets up the universe and is good enough to explain why you are and why you do, it's pretty good actually - I expected way less. The Long Dark isnt very thicc with lore either. The story mode reveals bit by bit but I can't really play it - they tend to shove the grind and annoying stuff in there. Funnily enough the hardest survival is actually the best. You roll the dice with loot but get sparse, strong and quite meaningful wildlife encounters.

I love The Long Dark. Strangely enough I haven't felt the need to start the story mode even once (own it for years now), survival mode gives me all the 'blazing my own trail' style story content I'd ever want. Sometimes less is more I suppose.

 

[R-Irish]

When playing a simulation game of any sort, you ideally want it close to what would really happen in real life (and build upon that to whatever extent). To suggest leaving your spaceship and having people shoot each other is somehow undermining the experience is hard to comprehend considering if it was 'real life', pilots wouldn't stay in their ships or not engage in conflict on foot and in space. I know that's not exactly the crux of Drew's issue, but the basic concept and experience of Odyssey is adding to Drew's opinion and his feeling that its not going in a direction he enjoys. I got the impression that drew wanted something which was confined to the flying of craft, I know I am probably not including huge amounts of what Drew did not like, but that alone is hard to wrap my head around. Don't meant to sound harsh, I don't know drew, he seem's like a very nice person. That's just my own thoughts on Drew's opinion, at least the part which seemed to make me wonder.

 

[Sighman]

Is the entire (or even a significant percentage) playerbase wanting ship interiors? From some comments here, even walking the length of the docking bay is tiresome...

Perhaps Frotier do understand the majority of their playerbase?

Never mind the docking bay, I find the slight delay getting in and out of the SRV annoying.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I love The Long Dark. Strangely enough I haven't felt the need to start the story mode even once (own it for years now), survival mode gives me all the 'blazing my own trail' style story content I'd ever want. Sometimes less is more I suppose.

Oh, it's not less. Less scripted, yes. But more free and you decide. And the "Shepards" voice them too. The story itself is not so bad but the episodal presentation is not my cup of tea. The survival however is impeccable and no zombies!

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

I could be wrong of course but the way I understood Drew's "soul" commentary was that this was aimed squarely at EDO in isolation. Story stuff (including tangible assets being added like the megaship bridge as you mentioned) is still ongoing but it's 100% Horizons content. EDO added zilch in terms of lore as far as I could tell. To what extent the delayed consoles launch can be blamed for that, I don't know.

As for EDO not being "done", well it was sold as a feature complete DLC. Things have clearly changed due to the fact it's indeed incomplete (to what extent we don't know) and we'll get the missing bits over time, most likely. Which is quite the opposite of what was promised. Basically it's seasonal content all over again.

The EDO 'Soul' that's being referred to can really be summed up with, there was no new space mechanics in EDO and the planets are generated in a new way we don't like. (BTW, I've been exploring and scanning planets for more than 150 hours now and not seen a single duplicate view while on a planet).

Personally, I though Elite lost it's soul when galnet went away but got it back when the new storylines started to emerge. Might have something to do with the fact that the new Lore changes the origin of the initial thargoid contact from when he worked on the Lore as part of the Kickstarter rewards. Ironically, the only place to find the proper history of Elite Dangerous is in the Elite Encounters RPG which was built on the world building Allen Stroud did as part of his PHD project.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Oh, it's not less. Less scripted, yes. But more free and you decide. And the "Shepards" voice them too. The story itself is not so bad but the episodal presentation is not my cup of tea. The survival however is impeccable and no zombies!

I meant, less as in I don't need the story mode in TLD to keep me engaged - no narration whatsoever (beyond text notes in-game perhaps) feels more than enough for me.

Come to think of it, I did start the story mode once, but didn't get past maybe 10 minutes. Played the game in survival mode since the beginning and story mode (with its tutorial etc.) just feels too restrictive. I'd like to learn more about the back story but I don't want to jump through the associated hoops if that makes sense.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I meant, less as in I don't need the story mode in TLD to keep me engaged - no narration whatsoever (beyond text notes in-game perhaps) feels more than enough for me.

Come to think of it, I did start the story mode once, but didn't get past maybe 10 minutes. Played the game in survival mode since the beginning and story mode (with its tutorial etc.) just feels too restrictive. I'd like to learn more about the back story but I don't want to jump through the associated hoops if that makes sense.

I feel the same. And each episode is basically the same script over and over. You dont miss much.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

The EDO 'Soul' that's being referred to can really be summed up with, there was no new space mechanics in EDO and the planets are generated in a new way we don't like. (BTW, I've been exploring and scanning planets for more than 150 hours now and not seen a single duplicate view while on a planet).

Personally, I though Elite lost it's soul when galnet went away but got it back when the new storylines started to emerge. Might have something to do with the fact that the new Lore changes the origin of the initial thargoid contact

If I'm perfectly honest I was never really a lore anorak with Elite and usually only joined CGs/IIs for the credits, rewards or simply the emergent gameplay because they're player magnets in Open. Stuff like the Gnosis was great too, and the buildup towards the Thargoid/Guardian reveal. It just kind of stopped in terms of the more exciting stuff (aliens) and is more focusing on politics and power games. I can't get too excited about that and if I wanted to read more along those topics I'd just check the RL news.

The problem with EDO is that there's no story that focuses on anything that's driven/affected by on-foot gameplay. It just feels like a theme park, you do a CZ, you run missions, you scan plants. As I said, could be due to the consoles delay but I don't think it's wise to just pause that stuff because of that (if that is indeed the reason). People play Odyssey now, they have paid for the DLC already. That consolieros can't do so isn't (and shouldn't) really those players' problem. It's not like ED was available on consoles in 2015 either.

I feel the same. And each episode is basically the same script over and over. You dont miss much.

Good to know. Maybe I might just read a transcript of events unfolding, not an achievement hunter so I don't really care too much completing it, ever. I'm very selective of the types of games I'm willing to see a story through - TLoU, Witcher 3, CP2077, Fallout to some extent. Even RDR2's story doesn't tickle me at all, whenever I play it I mostly mess around on the map.

They need to add a graphics benchmark test with a varied bunch of scripted scenery, then you'd have something to base your mininum/average/maximum FPS on.

Imagine if they did. Probably would double FC prices and wipe your Arx balance.

I liked it when the interdiction UI disappeared as well. I've been interdicted a couple of dozen times this week (NPCs) and got away from all of them no problem, but not having the arcade game bars made it more tense.

Yeah, I can easily escape interdiction by NPCs, but I can't imagine it's of great help if another player interdicted you - in my experience with those the UI helped greatly as I could see when it was time to submit to avoid the longer FSD reboot time.

 

[Ozric]

You do know that you can just reply to multiple people in the same post don't you? Or just edit your previous post if no one has posted since your last? Rather than making separate posts.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

You do know that you can just reply to multiple people in the same post don't you? Or just edit your previous post if no one has posted since your last? Rather than making separate posts.

Yes I know... but sometimes I shoot from the hip, and it's too much faffing about especially when on a phone. My sincerest apologies.

 

[St0rmFury]

As for EDO not being "done", well it was sold as a feature complete DLC. Things have clearly changed due to the fact it's indeed incomplete (to what extent we don't know) and we'll get the missing bits over time, most likely. Which is quite the opposite of what was promised. Basically it's seasonal content all over again.

But don't you see, EDO is complete!

FDev is just adding more features to make it even more complete!

Why aren't you grateful?

/s

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

If I'm perfectly honest I was never really a lore anorak with Elite and usually only joined CGs/IIs for the credits, rewards or simply the emergent gameplay because they're player magnets in Open. Stuff like the Gnosis was great too, and the buildup towards the Thargoid/Guardian reveal. It just kind of stopped in terms of the more exciting stuff (aliens) and is more focusing on politics and power games. I can't get too excited about that and if I wanted to read more along those topics I'd just check the RL news.

The problem with EDO is that there's no story that focuses on anything that's driven/affected by on-foot gameplay. It just feels like a theme park, you do a CZ, you run missions, you scan plants. As I said, could be due to the consoles delay but I don't think it's wise to just pause that stuff because of that (if that is indeed the reason). People play Odyssey now, they have paid for the DLC already. That consolieros can't do so isn't (and shouldn't) really those players' problem. It's not like ED was available on consoles in 2015 either.

That's the issue, as soon as fdev start putting in story that can only be accessed by Odyssey content, then the salt levels on the forums would go through the roof. It took ages for the community to accept the planet side only content when it started to arrive in Horizons.

The thing is going forward, people are going to have to realise that fdev are only going to develop for Odyssey. There will be fixes to keep any Horizon's content in line but the new stuff will be Odyssey only. For example, the new SRV. Have they said it's available for people in Horizons? You don't have the fourth seat in Horizon's multi-crew?

 

[zimms]

That's the issue, as soon as fdev start putting in story that can only be accessed by Odyssey content, then the salt levels on the forums would go through the roof. It took ages for the community to accept the planet side only content when it started to arrive in Horizons.

The thing is going forward, people are going to have to realise that fdev are only going to develop for Odyssey. There will be fixes to keep any Horizon's content in line but the new stuff will be Odyssey only. For example, the new SRV. Have they said it's available for people in Horizons? You don't have the fourth seat in Horizon's multi-crew?

It really all comes down to Odyssey's performance problems again. Because the issue here is that console players can't buy Odyssey.

Otherwise it would be easy to say "Tough luck, you got to enjoy Horizons for years and you can continue to do so in its status quo, but if you want to participate in the new content you'll have to buy the DLC."

That argument would - understandably - be a hard sell at the moment.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

That's the issue, as soon as fdev start putting in story that can only be accessed by Odyssey content, then the salt levels on the forums would go through the roof. It took ages for the community to accept the planet side only content when it started to arrive in Horizons.

Thankfully I wasn't active in the forums so completely missed any drama. I would've thought it's quite simple - you buy a DLC, that comes with its own content. I guess you could argue whether segregating the player base in terms of the sandbox (and engineers - ouch, that was a poor choice as it was basically P2W if you were into PvP) is really such a good idea.

The thing is going forward, people are going to have to realise that fdev are only going to develop for Odyssey. There will be fixes to keep any Horizon's content in line but the new stuff will be Odyssey only. For example, the new SRV. Have they said it's available for people in Horizons? You don't have the fourth seat in Horizon's multi-crew?

See, this could well be true and it would make me kind of sad... maybe it's too early to judge, but yeah the entire focus in terms of 'new' features seems to be Odyssey. Does that mean that we won't get new ships, SLFs, weapons, ship based gameplay loops or assets, added to the game at all? I mean the game is still about flying spaceships first and foremost... especially for those who might not be interested in legs stuff and will just stick with the Horizons bit of the game.

I do get the impression from Frontier that that bit is pretty much "done" (and I'm not talking about the next major pDLC. It's worth every now and then to chuck in new content for free, like a new ship, to keep the playerbase engaged). At least there's absolutely nothing that suggests otherwise at the moment.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Thankfully I wasn't active in the forums so completely missed any drama. I would've thought it's quite simple - you buy a DLC, that comes with its own content. I guess you could argue whether segregating the player base in terms of the sandbox (and engineers - ouch, that was a poor choice as it was basically P2W if you were into PvP) is really such a good idea.

See, this could well be true and it would make me kind of sad... maybe it's too early to judge, but yeah the entire focus in terms of 'new' features seems to be Odyssey. Does that mean that we won't get new ships, SLFs, weapons, ship based gameplay loops or assets, added to the game at all? I mean the game is still about flying spaceships first and foremost... especially for those who might not be interested in legs stuff and will just stick with the Horizons bit of the game.

I do get the impression from Frontier that that bit is pretty much "done" (and I'm not talking about the next major pDLC. It's worth every now and then to chuck in new content for free, like a new ship, to keep the playerbase engaged). At least there's absolutely nothing that suggests otherwise at the moment.

Oh there still might be, after all Base Game Elite owners still got passenger missions / ships when Horizons were doing planet side stuff and you can still take on Thargoids but it helps if you've visited the Guardian sites to upgrade to the more powerful weapons. However, those upgrades were few and far between (and don't get me started on what happened to the poor Mac version owners, which was mostly Apple's fault and not fdevs).

It would be daft for a company not to dangle carrots in front of the community to tempt them to upgrade.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Oh there still might be, after all Base Game Elite owners still got passenger missions / ships when Horizons were doing planet side stuff and you can still take on Thargoids but it helps if you've visited the Guardian sites to upgrade to the more powerful weapons. However, those upgrades were few and far between (and don't get me started on what happened to the poor Mac version owners, which was mostly Apple's fault and not fdevs).

It would be daft for a company not to dangle carrots in front of the community to tempt them to upgrade.

Not disagreeing with any of that, it's just weird that a game about flying spaceships won't get updates to the spaceship flying part of it. Which is more of a problem now simply because EDO added nothing to the space game (planet tech doesn't count because Horizons players will be able to... experience it sooner or later regardless).

I would love new ships every now and then. There are still gaps that could be filled if simply having more choice isn't a good enough argument (medium Saud, medium Imp, a super hauler like the Panther Clipper for FC loading). There are other games where new vehicles are introduced continuously... I know some posters here pull their nose up at the idea ("Elite doesn't need more ships!") but this is an attitude I can't say I've seen anywhere else. Of course I'd want more cars in Forza/Assetto, more trains in Train Sims, or planes in flight sims, etc. etc.

Besides that - there are still so many areas that desperately need fleshing out. We all know what they are at this point.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I don't really play much of the AssCreeds out there (actually none) but had some FarCry, Vice City Rockstar, Fallout yadayada. I think Bethesda Fallout kinda stands out from the crowd with the world building, but like I say no Watchdog, AC, Horizon, Red Dead thungas. These Open Worlds kinda have a "pearl collier" as storyline. It's there to guide around the map as literally a guide. The good ones of them don't need it and the world is actually the game. They usually don't shine much in story quality either. And the RPG aspect like character building is very limited - down to non-existant for companions.