Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Had a look at 3.15 patch, just for a simple game loop test (hauling bulk commodities in a Hercules C2).
Notes from that session, in no particular order:
  • We get to chose one of the "big cities" as a base spawn location, where our whole inventory (ships and equipment) is located. Alright. First issue, it's only one of the planetside cities, tough luck if you wanted your stuff stashed on one of the big orbital stations. Second issue, some of these cannot spawn vehicles, so if you chose any other than New Babbage, these vehicles are now stuck there (of course insurance claims can and will solve everything.. cough). Also, since the game has no NPC taxi service (so you can get back planetside to take another ship), you can get only one ship out of that planet, and that's it since other people cannot park your ships (they are considered as "stolen" then and despawned).
  • Your starting inventory is "somewhere" in that big city, didnt find where physically. It's magically available anywhere in that city, but unlike physical storage locations on ships, it's magic storage.
  • Other than that once you get used to it, it's somewhat serviceable, the huge list on the right can be a mess but considering the usual horrendous UI in this game, it's above par. Of course it's bugged and you will lose items forever. Fun times.
  • Hercules C2 flight model still feels way too light and swift (it's supposed to be a huge cargo hauler..), taking off like a small rocket and going mach 1+ in mere seconds, braking without any effort and hovering in any position with or without VTOL engaged (doesnt seem to make any difference). Oh and filling it with thousands of tons of cargo doesnt make the slightest difference. I get they want the lowest common denominator in flying ships as apparently it's not a space game anymore, but that's always irritating to me. Atmo flight model is still "we limit your max speed to something" and that's it. That's still one of my main gripes about SC in general.
  • Found some commodities i can trade, filling the C2 to max capacity, and getting a decent profit. Only place to sell bulk commodities though is planetside cities, I foresee a huge problem there with those Hull-series mega-haulers that can only dock to space stations.
  • Area18 ATC is completely broken. They will spam random messages, unrelated to your current status.
  • Once landed at the assigned landing pad, ATC will call and tell I'm occupying a reserved pad and should go away immediately. Broken, too...
  • and then going to the spaceport terminal and trying to store the ship, will end up having that ship misplaced somehow to an "Unknown" location. Oops.
  • still could sell the commodities after some tense moments.
  • Had to claim the ship though. Good thing I kinda foresaw issues with the so-called "persistence" and didnt store anything on it.
  • Restricted area above city spaceports (Lorville and Area18) is now invisible (used to be shown as a red wireframe). It's still there though.
  • That "landing tunnel" you had to precisely navigate in and out of these city spaceports is now gone. Backer money well spent, again.
  • The "TVI" (or flight vector indicator) is now an option in the menu that you have to turn on. Should be always on by default IMHO. They FINALLY listened and added a black shadow to it so we can see it on white backgrounds (like on Microtech for instance). About time..
  • Hercules' lift is held by magic, and goes through a closed hatch that wont open when going through it. Terrifying the first time around (as this kind of thing usually means insta-death in SC). It's irritatingly slow to accelerate too, in weird contrast with the ludicrous ship accelerations seen throughout SC.
  • Servers are even more flaky than ever. Had several instances of assets just not loading at all (staring at an empty lift shaft in a city for instance, and of course the button was missing too), and things going sideways for just about everything. Even my very simple test loop was met with a lot of bugs and show stoppers.
  • New show stopper bug appeared where from the orbit of Arccorp you jump to Area18 and frame rate will slow down to a complete stop, freezing the game. Then when it unfreezes either you're dead (in the mean time the ship crashed into the planet..) or disconnected or both. Of course waking up from that with everything lost (ship, inventory, cargo) is not my own definition of fun, also i'll point out that if you happen to be without any money left at that moment, and not on your started planet/city, you are stuck there until some charitable soul accepts to transport you.
  • Framerates with the 3090 are still below what could be defined as acceptable, around cities. Asset loading produces a longer freeze than before, too.
  • (edit) forgot to talk about eating/drinking. This is now non-functional. RIP. Oh you'll still starve etc. but drinking or eating is now not working at all, only way is to log on another server.

That's it for this patch. Will test 3.15.1 for the Ares Inferno but not really holding my breath for any interesting fix to the major issues plaguing this "alpha".
 
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Exploration is a very different thing in SC - let OA tell you all about it ...

Source: https://youtu.be/fHXpHRrHUq4

Funniest bit was the opening lore session about that location (including stuff about novel orbits which it absolutely doesn’t do ;))

In terms of "What’s over that hill?" exploration of big, empty, naturalistic locations though, sure, totally do-able in SC. And pretty while at it.

But as he notes, no game mechanics there really (beyond mining node discovery perhaps / minor trade settlements etc). And much that’s been promised not in attendance ;)

Ain’t my thing generally (I need a reason to broach that hill, and something to do on the other side ;)). But if he vibes out to it, fair play.
 
If by "competition" you mean ED, then that is indeed a big ouch. I never thought of ED's exploration mechanics as "meaningful".
Are you saying that this superficiality can actually be undercut? (not asking for a friend, never played SC)
There will never be exploration gameplay in Star Citizen...at least not in the same sense when using ED or NMS as comparison. Even at a grass roots level, all of the systems in the star citizen Ark starmap have already been discovered in the lore so Elite style exploration was never on the cards... nor has that specific type of exploration gameplay been suggested by Ci¬G at any point. It's too simple to look at the two games as a player strictly from experiences in one of them and figuratively compare apples and oranges... then strangely conclude one is lacking because it's not an orange...an astute observation which works both ways 🤭

What that leaves is anyone's guess...the exploration ships in Star Citizen (Freelancer DUR, Carrack, Endeavour and similar) were reputedly designed to seek out, discover and explore jump points and their surrounding Lagrange clouds, mapping new navigable routes, features and resources within them or investigate inter system POI's and the like. I didn't buy into Star Citizen wanting ED style exploration, I've already got ED for that. What SC offered...or rather, what Ci¬G originally proposed... was something different by way of exploration mechanics...that's what attracted me in the first place.

Whether any of that actually ever comes to realisation...your guess is as good as mine...my uneducated guess being that we'll never see exploration gameplay in any form since the direction and focus of the project is inexorably creeping toward being an arcade space shooter/trading game with some pretty planets and associated moons and satellites contained in 3 to 5 reasonably well featured and designed systems... perhaps a couple more systems being added over a greater period of time...That doesn't mean it'll be bad... assuming they fill out the systems and planets with enough engaging gameplay and features... just different and minus an Elite Dangerous style exploration gameplay mechanic that was never suggested in the first place...

Star Citizen certainly won't ever be the 100 system game that was advertised at kickstarter, the scope and direction of the project has moved too far away from that original idea to even be considered realistic, whether that's for good or bad...we'll have to wait and see :)
 
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Star Citizen certainly won't ever be the 100 system game that was advertised at kickstarter, the scope and direction of the project has moved too far away from that original idea to even be considered realistic, whether that's for good or bad...we'll have to wait and see :)
So far their velocity for completing another system is about 4 to 5 years, that's if they deliver Pyro in 2022. No idea how far they are on Nyx or if they have started it at all. Given their production notes (seen during latest Citizencon) I cant see them going any faster, as they do place every rock and patch of grass manually. About 5 systems by 2030 seems realistic given a bit of asset reuse and increased team sizes. That rules out any kind of long range exploration through jump points of course, maybe long range inside one system, towards uncharted objects in that system ? They wont stay uncharted for long though. My thoughts to people who bought $800+ exploration monster ships with associated gameplay loops that will never even start to be designed (Endeavour...). Not to mention that gameplay loop is completely out of place in the current arcade shooter with low TTK that is SC.
 
'Exploration' can have a couple of meanings: a thorough examination of something (often a subject), or exploring an unfamiliar area.
I can go into Leeds - a city I have never particularly been to - and 'explore' it. But it's not exploration in a Robert Scott, Roald Amundsen, or Sir Ernest Shackleton way - which is the way it is meant here. I know what I'll get: the area's well mapped, and there will be a Starbucks, a McDonalds and a Greggs. I will find interesting statuary and buildings, but only ones that have been seen by millions of other people. It might be an enjoyable day out, an adventure, but it's not really meaningful exploration.

IMV there is a difference between the people above, who were truly exploring virgin lands, and those of (say) Ranulph Fiennes, who has achieved amazing feats of endurance in well-charted lands. The former are adventurers and explorers; Fiennes is an adventurer.

I'd argue the only places left to 'explore' on Earth is the deep oceans, where we still have remarkably little knowledge - although it is increasing all the time.

So: SC will give you adventuring: going to places and having adventures. Most places will be explored very quickly. Games like ED or NMS give you true exploring; going out into the black and finding new places no-one has ever seen before. But like Antarctica in real life, most places are very samey. One glacier looks pretty much like another glacier. One crevasse is pretty much like another one.

TLDR: adventuring != exploration
 
So far their velocity for completing another system is about 4 to 5 years, that's if they deliver Pyro in 2022. No idea how far they are on Nyx or if they have started it at all. Given their production notes (seen during latest Citizencon) I cant see them going any faster, as they do place every rock and patch of grass manually. About 5 systems by 2030 seems realistic given a bit of asset reuse and increased team sizes. That rules out any kind of long range exploration through jump points of course, maybe long range inside one system, towards uncharted objects in that system ? They wont stay uncharted for long though. My thoughts to people who bought $800+ exploration monster ships with associated gameplay loops that will never even start to be designed (Endeavour...). Not to mention that gameplay loop is completely out of place in the current arcade shooter with low TTK that is SC.

You didn't hear? Once the pipelines are in place they will be able to pump out a new system every month or two!

Get with the programme you FUDster!
 
Its grim up north... although for you it would be south.
If the natives are driven to eating wheel nuts with their chips...it's grim indeed. It's not like they could have nicked the wheels, I've got 2 locking nuts on each wheel including the spare. The muppets should have looked through the window...being so used to having zero crime or needing to lock anything living way up here, I had left my keys in the ignition :D
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
If by "competition" you mean ED, then that is indeed a big ouch. I never thought of ED's exploration mechanics as "meaningful".
Are you saying that this superficiality can actually be undercut? (not asking for a friend, never played SC)
Well, even the word “meaningful” can be subjective indeed so you do you, but exploration in Elite (in all its dimensions, and which go way beyond the obvious “what’s after the next hill” kind of exploration) is top tier among piers yes, at least imo.
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
By exploration, I meant primarily the exploration mechanic, the part that makes exploration in and through the game meaningful - that is, beyond what we add with our imagination. When I hear about explorers in Elite, it's mostly about beautiful or interesting vistas, screenshots etc. but that's about it.
Well imo that is a somewhat restrictive definition of what exploration is. The mechanics in the king of games, chess, are just moving pieces from tile A to tile B for hours. Equally the mechanics in rock climbing are just about moving limbs from rock A to rock B for hours.

No, imo much like in those two examples there is indeed tons of gameplay and depth in Elite's Exploration (and I am not just referring to what we add with our imagination). There is much more to it than just vistas or pressing a honk button. If we restrict the definition like that then it simply means that we just do not like most of the actual Exploration gameplay (which is fine) or that it just eludes that personal and perhaps a bit too narrow definition.
 
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