Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Mole HD]

One has to wonder...

From what I've been hearing, the cash sales for the end of year sale are way down on last year...simply because everyone is melting, CCU'ing or a combination of both rather than cash buying. Some of the bigger whales are melting entire 5 or 10 grand packages for store credit, using Idris'sss as CCU tokens then buying the Drake master pack with 2 Krakens and all the other Drake ships, melting that 24 hours later, buying a few more Idris'sss then rinse and repeat to keep an Idris or a Drake master package at current price in buyback. The only ships out of the hull limited capital size that was sold out quickly were the Pioneer and Kraken...but then melted to keep in buyback for next years melting spree and the inevitable price increase.

Even in the traditional F5 wars for the big capital ships...on the day of the Idris'sss sale, at the end of the day there were still some store credit buyable ones left on the shelf which is unheard of... because nobody is interested in them besides using them as tokens...they were bought up with store credit then 24 hours later, they were melted or CCU'd for bigger high value packages. The attraction of the Idris is only the associated F8 Hornet, to shove in buyback or to use as a CCU route to other things...nothing more.

Playing Ci¬G at their own FOMO game

 

[Agony_Aunt]

From what I've been hearing, the cash sales for the end of year sale are way down on last year...simply because everyone is melting, CCU'ing or a combination of both rather than cash buying. Some of the bigger whales are melting entire 5 or 10 grand packages for store credit, using Idris'sss as CCU tokens then buying the Drake master pack with 2 Krakens and all the other Drake ships, melting that 24 hours later, buying a few more Idris'sss then rinse and repeat to keep an Idris or a Drake master package at current price in buyback. The only ships out of the hull limited capital size that was sold out quickly were the Pioneer and Kraken...but then melted to keep in buyback for next years melting spree and the inevitable price increase.

Even in the traditional F5 wars for the big capital ships...on the day of the Idris'sss sale, at the end of the day there were still some store credit buyable ones left on the shelf which is unheard of... because nobody is interested in them besides using them as tokens...they were bought up with store credit then 24 hours later, they were melted or CCU'd for bigger high value packages. The attraction of the Idris is only the associated F8 Hornet, to shove in buyback or to use as a CCU route to other things...nothing more.

Playing Ci¬G at their own FOMO game

Maybe the market is reaching saturation....

Saw a post from a faithful the other day where they were saying "with unlimited money and unlimited time it makes sense to try and make the best game ever and i'm happy to be part of this" (or words to that effect). I don't think they quite grasp that no project will have unlimited time and money. I'm not sure CR grasps that concept either.

 

[Mole HD]

Maybe the market is reaching saturation....

Saw a post from a faithful the other day where they were saying "with unlimited money and unlimited time it makes sense to try and make the best game ever and i'm happy to be part of this" (or words to that effect). I don't think they quite grasp that no project will have unlimited time and money. I'm not sure CR grasps that concept either.

Ci¬G started it all in motion when they attempted to induce FOMO by introducing artificial scarcity and a guaranteed yearly cash sales income by way of warbond...but the very whales they hoped to entice into this mindset aren't quite as dim as the marketing snakes assumed or needed them to be. They started stockpiling the rarer or more expensive ships and packages as CCU tokens knowing full well there would be a guaranteed inflation...sometimes...up to a 50% price increase in the thing they just bought. Now all these artificially inflated and rarified items are being used at their grossly inflated prices to allow store credit buying of a whole raft of new toys to do the same with year after year for no additional cash purchase.

By the time this 'sale' is finished, I'll probably have increased the relative value of my pledge contribution to beyond the next level of concierge (Grand Admiral)...and I'll have spent absolutely nothing except store credit, not one penny of new cash to Ci¬G

 

[Viajero]

I bought one, melted it 24 hours later...but not because it's broken.... but because it's now in my buybacks at the release price with 10 years IAE insurance and I got the store credit back to spend on something else. So far I've bought 7 or 8 ships and a variety of CCU upgrades, melted them after 24 hours just to pad out the buyback list with decent options as well as generating more store credit through CCU'ing a couple of older standalone ships with less than 10 years insurance, melting them, then buying the same ships but now with the 120 month IAE standard insurance...

With all the melting and ship shuffling, I still have a couple more ships than I started with before the sale...but I also have almost a grand ($760 in credit plus a $250 400i CCU token) in store credit to spend on a couple of ships and CCU's I'm waiting for tomorrow....Store Citizen at it's finest

Yup, never spent a penny real cash...just the ships I already had plus $250 standing store credit I keep hanging around just for those end of year open shop 'sales' events... and some creative ship and store credit shuffling. I lost a ROC mining buggy, an old standalone Aquila with 6 months insurance and a Gladius, all converted to store creds...besides losing those 3, I still gained some more ships and a lot more store credit to waste on tomorrow's MISC day.

I did plan to buy an Endeavour and a Hull D with the store credits (for the loaners and future melt/CCU value more than the ships themselves)...or CCU the 400i to one of them...but I'll have a look at this new MISC Odyssey jpeg, see what the loaners are as well as the price. It might be worth a punt considering the price will go up as it nears flyable. It's all about the prospective CCU or melt value for future upgrades. If the ship or package value rises, CCU it with store creds for something bigger...if it stays static or rises just a little, melt it for the store credit...same for the stuff in buyback.

The buybacks are a bit more complicated since to get ships or packages out, you either need cash or a buyback token in order to use store credits. At the moment, we get one or two of those a year...but that's changing so we have access to more if needed. As concierge, we can also ask concierge support for an extra buyback token mid year...they don't always give you one but sometimes they do... depending on when you ask or what it's for.

You do you obviously but all this stuff seems to me insane for a game still far from release. Unless of course we think of this as being actually the game. Props to CIG in any event, who knows really well how to keep backers busy with all this nonsense while the game remains broken and unreleased after 9+ years.

Might as well "play" Star Atlas and be done with the pretense of a game to be honest.

Edit: Need to read rest of posts, ninjaed really hard by everyone else

 

[Viajero]

From what I've been hearing, the cash sales for the end of year sale are way down on last year...simply because everyone is melting, CCU'ing or a combination of both rather than cash buying.

Last year was probably a record for everyone in the gaming industry. Either way, unless mistaken, I count around 10 million in the first 8 days of the IAE this year, and around the same amount in the first 8 days last year, no?:

Crowdfunding Development Spreadsheet Version 2.0

docs.google.com

Assuming the tracker is an accurate reflection of reality of course. Is there any hint that melting and buying with melted credits is part of the tracker?

 

[varonica]

Of course, there's no guarantee any of this stuff from the "ALPHA" will actually carry over to the live released game, despite what anyone has said they could just wipe it all and make people buy it all over again.....that seems to be the way it's going!

 

[Surefoot]

That sounds like a far more in depth game loop than the mining or trading in the game.

TBH mining is their most defined aspect. The game loop is almost complete (without the production chain out of refined minerals at the end). And while there are some bugs, they are not show stoppers unlike every other aspect of the game. If space mining is your thing, you can do it for hours.
Trading yeah, that was coded in 5 minutes by a beginner. There's absolutely nothing to it.

Maybe the market is reaching saturation....

Or maybe people realize Idris and other capital ships will either never exist or will never be used as intended since it's now acted that there wont be enough player slots on each server to populate just one ship. Even using bots, a single Idris with its fighter complement will fill the slots, and will be completely useless (as there's no meaningful PVE for ships this size). Other bigger ships like the Starfarer are also becoming irrelevant since there wont be any "long distance" refuelling needed, as we'll be lucky to reach 5 systems by 2030.

 

[VR Golgot]

The buybacks are a bit more complicated since to get ships or packages out, you either need cash or a buyback token in order to use store credits. At the moment, we get one or two of those a year...but that's changing so we have access to more if needed. As concierge, we can also ask concierge support for an extra buyback token mid year...they don't always give you one but sometimes they do... depending on when you ask or what it's for.

Ah that rings a bell. (Weren’t the buyback tokens limited a while back?)

Guess there’s a spending carrot in tucking bonus ones behind the concierge wall though.

Although…

By the time this 'sale' is finished, I'll probably have increased the relative value of my pledge contribution to beyond the next level of concierge (Grand Admiral)...and I'll have spent absolutely nothing except store credit, not one penny of new cash to Ci¬G

What? How does that work? So these credit games are recognised as more money spent ultimately? On your personal purchases page etc? (Eventually triggering the old fancy boy’s club letter etc as you hit a new tier?)

That’s actually the most suggestive thing I’ve heard yet on the ole 'credit games might bump funding figures' front. That seems super odd.

 

[VR Golgot]

Tip of the Day:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/r3avdw/_/hm9gwoy

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/r3avdw/serious_bug_i_very_frequently_lose_armor/hm9gwoy/

 

[Ebob]

Of course, there's no guarantee any of this stuff from the "ALPHA" will actually carry over to the live released game, despite what anyone has said they could just wipe it all and make people buy it all over again.....that seems to be the way it's going!

Yeah no I don't think they'd fancy a thousand lawsuits.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Last year was probably a record for everyone in the gaming industry. Either way, unless mistaken, I count around 10 million in the first 8 days of the IAE this year, and around the same amount in the first 8 days last year, no?:

Crowdfunding Development Spreadsheet Version 2.0

docs.google.com

Assuming the tracker is an accurate reflection of reality of course. Is there any hint that melting and buying with melted credits is part of the tracker?

IAE started at $398.5 Million, they are currently at $409.5 Million, it ends on the 1'st of December, they will make $12 Million + from this event. Which is not great, definitely slow this year.

I don't know if they measure annual income by calender year or financial year, one would think financial year.
On the 1'st of January 2020 they reached $261.2 Million
On the 1'st of April 2020 they reached $275.5 Million

Either way they will hit $150 Million for this years cycle of revenue, which is a record by a long way, 2020 was a record at about $80 Million.

I think @Mole HD is right, 2021 has been an utter blow-out year for them but that seems to be over now, 2022 will not be a great year for CIG.

 

[Ebob]

Other bigger ships like the Starfarer are also becoming irrelevant since there wont be any "long distance" refuelling needed, as we'll be lucky to reach 5 systems by 2030.

Actually - refueling is very heavily needed for Pyro to even begin to think about crossing the system. It's huge compared to Stanton. So no, the Starfarer wont be irrelevant any time soon.

Also, 5 Systems by 2030? Well I mean that would require them to fire most of those 100 people just working on the Systems at their new studio, just have a single guy making System names up and writing dates. As Nyx is most likely finishing up Planet wise, there's gonna be 3 Systems done by the end of next year if we're lucky.

 

[fzfq3m]

Ah that rings a bell. (Weren’t the buyback tokens limited a while back?)

Guess there’s a spending carrot in tucking bonus ones behind the concierge wall though.

Although…




What? How does that work? So these credit games are recognised as more money spent ultimately? On your personal purchases page etc? (Eventually triggering the old fancy boy’s club letter etc as you hit a new tier?)

That’s actually the most suggestive thing I’ve heard yet on the ole 'credit games might bump funding figures' front. That seems super odd.

Relative value, after it sums up the current value of all his ships the amount ends up above or near $2500
just as example: say you bought an Idris for $1300 real cash, you get high admiral… now, after X amount of time CIG says we need more money we need to increase Idris price because is more capable and expensive (wink wink )
Now the price is $2600, which mean that the relative value of your Idris is now above Grand Admiral level, bit you don’t get the perks or title of course

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Actually - refueling is very heavily needed for Pyro

Or more accurately, "will be", or even more accurately "might be".

 

[Ebob]

Or more accurately, "will be", or even more accurately "might be".

"Might be" How? They've stated it on multiple occasions, and after half a decade of silence are now working on refuel mechanics for the Starfarer which is set to release in 3.16.
Pyro is in lore 13 AU in diameter, while Stanton is 4AU in diameter. Small Ships already have trouble jumping more than a few Planets in Stanton.

So yeah, it is literally beyond any doubt that refueling will be needed in Pyro for a lot of ships.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

"Might be" How? They've stated it on multiple occasions, and after half a decade of silence are now working on refuel mechanics for the Starfarer which is set to release in 3.16.
Pyro is in lore 13 AU in diameter, while Stanton is 4AU in diameter. Small Ships already have trouble jumping more than a few Planets in Stanton.

So yeah, it is literally beyond any doubt that refueling will be needed in Pyro for a lot of ships.

Oh, sorry, you're not aware of the Backer's creed? ITS ALPHA, things can change, CR said that years ago, it no longer applies.

You see, when a skeptic say "But CR said..." we get it thrown in our face that things can change in game development, that plans change, that being alpha everything can change.

So, when someone says "it will be this way" they are basically saying that things won't change, that it will be the way that CIG said it would be when it was defined.

As always with CIG, nothing is definite until actually delivered, and then it can still be changed after delivery anyway, because ALPHA!

What if they discover they can'\t make Pyro as big as initially planned? Or if after release at that size people massively complain about travel times, so CIG decide to walk back on that?

Too many conditionals at the moment regarding Pyro, the biggest being whether they will ever actually deliver it.

 

[Ebob]

What if they discover they can'\t make Pyro as big as initially planned? Or if after release at that size people massively complain about travel times, so CIG decide to walk back on that?

They've been working on it for a few years now, i'm sure with something as influential as that, lore articles would have been updated long ago. But they haven't.

Too many conditionals at the moment regarding Pyro, the biggest being whether they will ever actually deliver it.

They'll deliver it, eventually. Proposal! I'll eat a sock if Pyro isn't scheduled to be coming out in a Q4/Q1 Patch at the end of next year.

 

[Mole HD]

Ah that rings a bell. (Weren’t the buyback tokens limited a while back?)

Guess there’s a spending carrot in tucking bonus ones behind the concierge wall though.

Although…




What? How does that work? So these credit games are recognised as more money spent ultimately? On your personal purchases page etc? (Eventually triggering the old fancy boy’s club letter etc as you hit a new tier?)

That’s actually the most suggestive thing I’ve heard yet on the ole 'credit games might bump funding figures' front. That seems super odd.

I'm not talking many hundreds of bucks here...since I was 90-odd percent there already...but you can, by clever melting and CCU'ing increase your pledge contribution. It means nothing of course since none of this has any intrinsic value outside of the world of SC...we're talking 'value' in Ci¬G's artificial terms, which is only a percieved value, truly meaningless and mostly pointless outside of Star Citizen. It was converting old cheaper packages and ships, some old horse traded grey market purchases via CCU to reflect their new prices...then melting them at the increased price to gain more store credit...etc, etc

 

[Factabulous]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464578201133461507

Source: https://twitter.com/drewwagar/status/1464578201133461507?s=20


Who wants to advise Drew to buy an Idris?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They've been working on it for a few years now, i'm sure with something as influential as that, lore articles would have been updated long ago. But they haven't.

They'll deliver it, eventually. Proposal! I'll eat a sock if Pyro isn't scheduled to be coming out in a Q4/Q1 Patch at the end of next year.

CIG talk a lot about what they have been working on. They said SQ42 was almost finished in 2014, which would have meant in 2014 they had working NPCs (they didn't), a a lot of the Odin system (seems highly unlikely), and all the ships required working (definitely not).

CIG are also not one for giving bad news before its needed to be given. They could sit on Pyro being shrunk until much closer to release. Then they can happily announce that without a new magical tech they can't make it as big as they wanted, so to avoid delay they are making Pyro smaller. Backers will eat that up and praise CIG for it.

Also, a second system maybe coming at the end of 2022/start of 2023, a system they have allegedly been working on for years, doesn't exactly give hope for the promised 110 systems does it?

You also fail to consider the scenario where backers complain travel times over such a large system are too long, and CIG respond by shrinking the system... or extending fuel range and travel speeds.