Opinion & Discussion time: I'm done (and out) with the DLC model for PZ (and where it's used for other Frontier games)...

[Sclurp]

I am parroting myself from when we went through Planet Coaster's lifespan, from alpha and to it getting no more support, and then JWE's...
The DLC Frontier creates for Planet Zoo and their other park management games don't offer enough new gameplay opportunities, and I think I'm done with them now. With Planet Zoo, I haven't even got around to using animals from the last two packs because I'm still playing the same game that doesn't feel like it's offering anything that will change up the gameplay loop despite there being new content. So this game I've had since its release is competing with every other game that has come out since or is worth going back to.
I don't want to prompt reflexive "Well, see ya!" responses, I'm here to try to convey my feelings/feedback about the DLC situation, (cos feedback is helpful sometimes) and so, having played JWE for a loootta hours on PS4 and PC, I felt absolutely no desire to get JWE2, and you'd imagine that wouldn't happen -- having played the original game so much...but here we are. (And I'm gonna bring this back round to PZ, bear with)...
After seeing what was on offer in that sequel (and now it's dino DLC pack), I just felt like I was looking at the same game as the first, just with new animations and some new maps. In regards to Frontier's DLC, it's just the same thing over and over again, as it is with this latest pack for PZ. It's more animals and more scenery but it won't build upon what I get to do in the game that's fun. It's the same experience I was already having but instead of the jaguar, or the clouded leopard or the mountain lion, I can use the lynx instead. The free updates have included some nice extras but we're now multiple games into a trend of post-game support that totally lacks ambition and I really hope to see this change in the future.

I don't want to wait for Planet Zoo 2 to see content that shakes up zoo building/management.

Anyway, Frontier might not want to do anything different and that's fine but my feedback on what they're selling for their games is: This is boring now and I can almost hear your discussion that was had in the meeting room about the effort invested in against potential returns...I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to see more of the game part of a videogame, than a premium portfolio of your artist's/animator's work. (Granted, it's very impressive work).

 

[Mjmannella]

What "shake ups" to the building and management did you have in mind?

 

[12344321]

100% agree about JWE2...and it feeling like the same game.

I really appreciated the burrowing mechanics, and deep diving mechanics...I'm not sure why they weren't implemented from the start, but whatever...I would like to think that "flying" and hopefully "brachiation" mechanics will be implemented eventually.

But my biggest fear (and it's seeming like a reality) is that the aviary pack will only be 8 birds...and like you're pointing out it's great to give us restaurants and bleachers etc...but they aren't groundbreaking, the DLC haven't been very ambitious. And in the future those features aren't going to get new people interested in Planet Zoo or have longtime players start making new zoos.

And if they gave us a lackluster aquarium pack/aviary pack in Planet Zoo with 8 aviary birds or 8 aquarium animals it will not be groundbreaking enough to keep people's interest.

I DESPERATELY want birds and sharks in my zoo. However, I have no excitement to add 7 or 8 birds...that's just not cutting it It isn't going to add some new layer of reality, it's still woefully insufficient. And even though this is my favorite game I don't find underwhelming DLC interesting.

 

[Sclurp]

What "shake ups" to the building and management did you have in mind?

I feel iffy about making comparisons but it's the easiest way to convey how other developers have broadened gameplay opportunities in expansions for their games, so let's dive in:
Megaquarium is a game where you have a pretty simple structure which consists of building fish tanks, creating the environment that keeps your fish happy and healthy and maybe if you approach the game from a new angle you could figure out how to combine multiple, difficult to care for, species, and then, as an aside to this your staff management directly feeds back into how effectively the whole aquarium functions because you need to maintain a certain number of tasks within a day and as you expand this becomes harder to do unless you apply thought and creativity into the running of your aquarium. The DLC for this game takes the focus away from established marine species and introduces freshwater fish that have a totally different set of needs but the gameplay for these species requires different thought processes and demands from the player, to make using that content interesting.
You are now dealing with tanks that need to be designed differently, sure, but you also get introduced to breeding and creating hybrids through breeding and fish that can destroy plants, have territories, can eat the fins on other fish etc. It actively engages the player in thinking about how to overcome new obstacles rather than it being (what Frontier might've done) "Here's 5 new fish and some scenery - four of these new fish can use a new type of item that you put in their tanks but none of the other fish in your aquarium can."
Although saying that, the devs for Megaquarium did just release a not-as-expensive scenery/new fish pack, haha...But it didn't leave a sour taste in my mouth having it follow the first DLC.

Another example would be work devs at Frontier created with the expansion for RCT3: RCT 3 Soaked.
A spiritual successor expansion was asked and asked for, for Planet Coaster but perhaps it was engine limitations that meant we didn't get to see that happen, who knows? Either way, we've not had anything on the same scale from Frontier for any of their own IPs.

Let's go back to the first Zoo Tycoon even: it had two expansion packs (oh the age of expansion packs) and really the feeling from the complete version of the game is that you had three games smushed into one experience but where each part could compliment the whole experience.

While The Sims has been so hit or miss (mostly miss recently), they're games that have managed to offer great game-changing expansions. The equivalent with The Sims, to what we get with PZ is the stuff packs, but only stuff packs.

 

[Sclurp]

100% agree about JWE2...and it feeling like the same game.

I really appreciated the burrowing mechanics, and deep diving mechanics...I'm not sure why they weren't implemented from the start, but whatever...I would like to think that "flying" and hopefully "brachiation" mechanics will be implemented eventually.

But my biggest fear (and it's seeming like a reality) is that the aviary pack will only be 8 birds...and like you're pointing out it's great to give us restaurants and bleachers etc...but they aren't groundbreaking, the DLC haven't been very ambitious. And in the future those features aren't going to get new people interested in Planet Zoo or have longtime players start making new zoos.

And if they gave us a lackluster aquarium pack/aviary pack in Planet Zoo with 8 aviary birds or 8 aquarium animals it will not be groundbreaking enough to keep people's interest.

I DESPERATELY want birds and sharks in my zoo. However, I have no excitement to add 7 or 8 birds...that's just not cutting it It isn't going to add some new layer of reality, it's still woefully insufficient. And even though this is my favorite game I don't find underwhelming DLC interesting.

Yeah, I think we're in agreement that there's enough in the base game for the time we've put in (but is there enough for the future?)...There's enough content in the free updates to make them pretty solid...But the DLC? Where is the content that will make me want to try out anything different? Or say: "I'm going to build a new zoo and this time I'm going to just use: XYZ..." Etc.
I build, I put animals inside something that's pretty and then I think: Well, time to do that again for another animal...But maybe another time...

The Aquatic Pack got pretty close...It was the DLC I was most satisfied with...But yet again there were just a handful of animals and the execution of the mechanics that were expanded upon didn't shake up the core gameplay loop enough IMO.

 

[jcp011c]

I do understand where you're coming from even if I do disagree with this particular game. I play a lot of games that have gotten loads of DLC, and for many of them I've been getting most or all of the DLC. I decided Sims 4 is my last outing in that series, not interested in another Civilization Series. Not even really interested in a second Cities Skylines or a Planet Coaster 2. To be honest, I love Planet Zoo so much that I may well not be interested in a sequel either. I'm going to say at this point it's surpassed Zoo Tycoon 2, why would I want something else. I would not plan to buy PZ2 even if it had birds and marine animals; but oddly enough I'd support a separate Planet Aquarium.

I guess it boils down to loving the game I love but being disillusioned with starting from scratch yet again. (Sims 4 I'm really looking at you here). But for Planet Zoo's first outing, I'm fully on board with pretty much anything they're going to put out for the game.

 

[peafowl]

I'm excited at every dlc, and i've kept buying dlcs in hope of sparking joy in playing the game.. but there are some issues i just can't unsee and it's ruining my experience very much

Models look wrong

• Lion: Male model looks like a cartoon
• Malayan tapir: Just a reskin of the other tapir..
• Zebra: Looks like a my little pony

Behavior is off

• No pack or herd behavior
• Very limited or no parent-baby interactions
• No perching for birds (well, bird..), No brachiation for primates

One size maps

The map size is overwhelming and I know that if i ever came to play one zoo for more than 2 hours, my pc would start to struggle. I haven't though, because i always shut it down 10-15 minutes into playing again

No immersion

Its more a buildsim than a zoosim. The animals are just nice accessories to landscapes.. I would love some first person zookeeper interactions as you had in zoo tycoon 2

I don't know that i will buy the europe dlc. I have bought dlcs until now and it isnt changing.. It's still very much an empty playing experience. I have seriously thought to just buy zoo tycoon 2 again because things that has been requested for so long just hasn't happened, and my fear is that they do think of implementing it in a pz2.. rendering all the feedback we've given useless, unless you wanna go back and spend another 100 dollars.

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

I guess i get that, but this game is a sandbox builder as far as im concerned. Its about building stuff and the dlc give more options to build stuff. Sure, i wouldnt mind things like more impactfull management, but really? Thats simply not a part of the games core appeal or atleast we can all mostly agree on that this game is quite the meh management game, but an awesome builder. Thats also why most people play sandbox.
Anyways, i stand by the claim that there is not much that they could add in dlc to "shake up" the game, the biggest being birds, but everything else? Hell no.
Would you want a management based dlc with lets say animal personalitys? That feels even more cheap and like we are cheated out of something we should have gotten in a free update then with just some more animals and objects. I dont want key features to be locked behind dlc, thats just something that doesnt sit well with me, especally when the company has gone on record of releasing that stuff for free.
Also, how would it look like if such an important feature is locked behind paid dlc? pretty ty, right?

 

[DarthQuell]

I agree with pretty much what @KönigDerKaffeebohnen said.

The thing is, the DLC aren't supposed to offer new gameplay; all the new features came in the free updates.

All the DLC add is more animals and building pieces to use, but the new features, like deep diving and digging, those were in updates.
Personally, I mean, you don't even need DLC to play the game. My cousin sometimes plays and he has no DLC, but he receives all the new free stuff

 

[DarthQuell]

Sims 4 I'm really looking at you here

If I'm not mistaken, Will Wright didn't even want to make the 2nd game, and then he left EA and Maxis dissolved soon after.
And Civ 6 is identical to Civ 5, so I've heard. Not much improvement (plus, the thousands of mods for Civ 5 bring something new).

In the case of JWE 2, it's basically a slightly better game. I see tons of improvements, such as free flying pterosaurs and aquatic species, plus the medics are a bit deeper than simply darting (now you have to scan the animal to diagnose it, then tranq it, then transport it). Honestly, even though it's a lot of micromanaging, I enjoy it way better than the simple JWE 1 way, because now it's not just me sitting around waiting for something to happen

 

[Sclurp]

Hey all,
Good points. I do think that expansions that offer tangent gameplay experiences that feature something different and new can be sold, especially as Frontier do offer pretty nice free updates. My issue isn't with the free updates but the DLC model being the same thing over and over and doing nothing to build on the base game. We're just getting a more bloated catalog of animals and scenery/ rides and scenery (PC)/ dinos and...oh nevermind (JWE 2).

So to circle back round to my point, the DLC we do get is just not doing much for me anymore...Not after so many samey packs. I want something fun to do in PZ again, and something that feels new and something that is an alternative to how I've been playing the game since 2019. If that arrives in the form of a free update, amazing...a DLC pack, amazing...a substantial expansion pack, amazing...doesn't matter to me.
But what is being sold (and we're not in the early life cycle of PZ at this point), as I said, it's boring me and I just don't want to buy anymore of these packs. Nor any dino packs if I get JWE2 eventually.

I want Frontier to have more game designers and QA staff (while we're at it too) essentially.

 

[ElectricMonk]

Hey all,
Good points. I do think that expansions that offer tangent gameplay experiences that feature something different and new can be sold, especially as Frontier do offer pretty nice free updates. My issue isn't with the free updates but the DLC model being the same thing over and over and doing nothing to build on the base game. We're just getting a more bloated catalog of animals and scenery/ rides and scenery (PC)/ dinos and...oh nevermind (JWE 2).

So to circle back round to my point, the DLC we do get is just not doing much for me anymore...Not after so many samey packs. I want something fun to do in PZ again, and something that feels new and something that is an alternative to how I've been playing the game since 2019. If that arrives in the form of a free update, amazing...a DLC pack, amazing...a substantial expansion pack, amazing...doesn't matter to me.
But what is being sold (and we're not in the early life cycle of PZ at this point), as I said, it's boring me and I just don't want to buy anymore of these packs. Nor any dino packs if I get JWE2 eventually.

I want Frontier to have more game designers and QA staff (while we're at it too) essentially.

Fair enough but, TBH, I’m still not sure what you consider game-changing in the way you want. I don’t think the addition of either aquaria or aviaries would alter the basic game in that way - In the end it’s still going to be about placing animals and decorating habitats. I don’t think that any of the expansions to ZT did they either though - MM added shows but that’s about it and, personally, i’d hate those kinds of shows to be added. IMO every DLC had added substantial new content for very good value and the FREE updates have added a very substantial amount of new ‘game-changing’ content too…. At the end of the day I love the currrent gameplay so I’m happy for them to concentrate on making what is already there as good as it can be, rather than trying to create new elements that I probably won’t like as much anyway.

 

[Aramar]

I’m still not sure what you consider game-changing in the way you want. I don’t think the addition of either aquaria or aviaries would alter the basic game in that way - In the end it’s still going to be about placing animals and decorating habitats

That's exactly how I feel. I don't see how building an aquarium for sharks is going to be different to building the water area for penguins or otters. We will create a tank and place things in the water, just exactly as we can do now.

The same for aviaries, we will build a habitat, place rocks, plants, enrichment items and perching structures (climbing structures). Then we put a roof, which we can already build. The only difference I can imagine is a new barrier/pieces that make it easier to build a roof, but nothing game-changing.

 

[jcp011c]

Chiming in as well, when there's talk about things that are game changing, or an alternative to how you're playing, what type of thing are you talking about? Not pointing you out directly, but quite often when there's talk about "game changing", there's never any really good ideas to go along with what that means exactly. The only things I could think of were onhand management (feeding and grooming, etc) and seeing through the eyes of the animal and interacting with the surroundings and other animals (which is not really something I think would happen). I agree that while avians and marine animals would definitely offer variety and types of animals, at the end of the day they're still "bloating the catalog" so to speak. Unless someone's a huge fan of birds or marine animals specifically, over terrestrial animals, I honestly don't think they would really consider them game changing - maybe for a week or two but after that it's back to the same feeling prior to the addition.

Me personally, upon release I figured there'd be a lot of DLC. I was hoping for more animals in them, but that's not their pattern. But like other zoo games, the main thing with those DLC were more animals. That's how it's always been with zoo games. The fact we're getting a huge amount of building pieces with standard 4+1 packs is a bonus to me. But that's also all I see us getting in the future as well. Building sets and animals, as well as foliage and some small amount of enrichment items. I'm just not sure what else would be included in DLC.

 

[Sclurp]

Hello hello,
I haven't really mentioned aviaries or aquariums but I did already give examples of games that have received additions that built upon the base game, which Planet Zoo's DLC has for the most part not done. The "FREE updates" have been pretty good (as I've said already) and have added some nice features but these are things that feel like they should be incorporated into the experience (well done, Frontier) and not offer an alternative/tangent experience to what we already do within the gameplay loop.

If you're happy with the DLC packs then that's awesome (this is "discussion time" and not me steamrolling my opinions and everyone else is wrong), and I've bought every DLC pack so far. But I don't want to continue because as I've said, it's the same thing over and over. Building pieces are not what make a zoo management game fun IMO. The new animals don't offer new challenges for the most part unless they engage the player in trying something new (like the Aquatic pack kinda did, just on a very small scale).
So what I mean by "game changing" is something that shakes up the gameplay loop, when you mentioned how aviaries and aquariums wouldn't do this you mentioned how what we'd be building would be done in the same fashion as how we play the game now: "just as we do now"
That's if Frontier made the bare minimum effort yes. It doesn't have to be that way though, and we know they're prepared to create the type of expansion I'd like to see, because we've had the Horizons and Odyssey expansions for Elite Dangerous. Both expansions (granted one had an extremely rocky start) offered new gameplay and new ways to play the same game.

With Planet Zoo, say we go with aviaries and aquariums, it doesn't have to be just animals placed within the confines of a tank or cage and the keepers visit them for their monthly feeding/poop clean up - job done. The care of different types of animals and how you create the habitats that houses them is a part of Planet Zoo's gameplay loop currently and can be an opportunity to have players engage in a variation of what we already do. Having a penguin in a tank full of water is not the same as balancing the life supporting ecosystem within a tank where the water quality/ bacteria/ PH levels are what keep the fish alive. Then on top of that you have an opportunity for new animals that have very different needs to what we currently have to deal with: fish that need to shoal, need to swim in circular tanks, hide within rocks/under the sand/ in logs etc, they need to lay eggs on flat surfaces or crush clams in their mouths, have lots of plants, hide inside an anemone, have fast currents, have no currents...Birds inside aviaries, same deal - different needs, different builds; not building a habitat in the same way I would for a lion.
Now I'm not saying it has to be either of those two things to be an expansion pack. I can imagine a conservation focused expansion for instance, or building a wildlife preserve with limited infrastructure (Youtubers who do 8 hour builds for content would hate it sure, but oh well) and again if you like the DLC packs how they are, nice one...I'm aware I'm on the PZ forum...But after so many samey packs, I just want something more interesting and if that's it and that's all we're getting then cool I got my moneys worth but I can't see myself getting a Planet Zoo 2 if that game ended up being the same game but: "oh but we managed to get aviaries to work so here's that"
No no, I want this game to be one to go back to and not be done with.

 

[Spiderhawk]

I like how you mention the Sims. I have voiced frustration with the fact that there are too many expansions with little content. Plus I found that an older game like sims 3 gives you a bigger variety on all fronts then sims 4.
anyway I like how PZ has gone above and beyond creating this zoo game with features that zoo tycoon never got close to. Zoo tycoon came out way before Dlcs were a thing and expansions were the only way to get new content or you just get the deluxe edition (I never played ZT2 or the Xbox game so few free to correct me). The expansions obviously gave us new creatures based on the theme of the expansion along with vendors, animal houses, foliage etc.
I think it’s time for a true expansion pack for PZ. While frontier has been able to create aviarys and lagoons in JWE2, this makes us wonder if they can effectively do it for PZ. I think with what they need to include with files, programing, animations, a satisfactory amount of animals, scenery, construction bits and other features, there simply is too much for a dlc.
This year has given us 2 animal and 2 theme packs which has been like a game of tug a war with the fanbase in a friendly rivalry. Many of us argue that 4+1 is just not enough and others argue no building pieces is unacceptable.
I personally will pay whatever the price to see this game evolve a become the greatest zoo building game of all time. I want aviarys above all else with larger exhibits and aquariums features as lower priority IMO.
Here’s to hoping.

 

[jcp011c]

Hello hello,
I haven't really mentioned aviaries or aquariums but I did already give examples of games that have received additions that built upon the base game, which Planet Zoo's DLC has for the most part not done. The "FREE updates" have been pretty good (as I've said already) and have added some nice features but these are things that feel like they should be incorporated into the experience (well done, Frontier) and not offer an alternative/tangent experience to what we already do within the gameplay loop.

If you're happy with the DLC packs then that's awesome (this is "discussion time" and not me steamrolling my opinions and everyone else is wrong), and I've bought every DLC pack so far. But I don't want to continue because as I've said, it's the same thing over and over. Building pieces are not what make a zoo management game fun IMO. The new animals don't offer new challenges for the most part unless they engage the player in trying something new (like the Aquatic pack kinda did, just on a very small scale).
So what I mean by "game changing" is something that shakes up the gameplay loop, when you mentioned how aviaries and aquariums wouldn't do this you mentioned how what we'd be building would be done in the same fashion as how we play the game now: "just as we do now"
That's if Frontier made the bare minimum effort yes. It doesn't have to be that way though, and we know they're prepared to create the type of expansion I'd like to see, because we've had the Horizons and Odyssey expansions for Elite Dangerous. Both expansions (granted one had an extremely rocky start) offered new gameplay and new ways to play the same game.

With Planet Zoo, say we go with aviaries and aquariums, it doesn't have to be just animals placed within the confines of a tank or cage and the keepers visit them for their monthly feeding/poop clean up - job done. The care of different types of animals and how you create the habitats that houses them is a part of Planet Zoo's gameplay loop currently and can be an opportunity to have players engage in a variation of what we already do. Having a penguin in a tank full of water is not the same as balancing the life supporting ecosystem within a tank where the water quality/ bacteria/ PH levels are what keep the fish alive. Then on top of that you have an opportunity for new animals that have very different needs to what we currently have to deal with: fish that need to shoal, need to swim in circular tanks, hide within rocks/under the sand/ in logs etc, they need to lay eggs on flat surfaces or crush clams in their mouths, have lots of plants, hide inside an anemone, have fast currents, have no currents...Birds inside aviaries, same deal - different needs, different builds; not building a habitat in the same way I would for a lion.
Now I'm not saying it has to be either of those two things to be an expansion pack. I can imagine a conservation focused expansion for instance, or building a wildlife preserve with limited infrastructure (Youtubers who do 8 hour builds for content would hate it sure, but oh well) and again if you like the DLC packs how they are, nice one...I'm aware I'm on the PZ forum...But after so many samey packs, I just want something more interesting and if that's it and that's all we're getting then cool I got my moneys worth but I can't see myself getting a Planet Zoo 2 if that game ended up being the same game but: "oh but we managed to get aviaries to work so here's that"
No no, I want this game to be one to go back to and not be done with.

Thanks, that's some really good insight into what type of game changing features you're talking about. Some very specific management and needs for species, as opposed to "just" making sure foliage, terrain, space etc match and giving them the proper food/enrichments. Making care of the species truly unique, as opposed to just set values within what the game has now. Which is what real zoos have to do. I really like this idea and applaud this type of out of the box thinking. I imagine it would be overwhelming for some players, but maybe that could be a different in easy/medium/hard levels. Again, thank you for expanding on your idea as this is honestly the best example I've seen of what someone might want when the speak of game changing features.

 

[Planet zoo ‘The Netherlands’]

I must say I’m actually really happy with the DLC’s and think the way content and functionality are separated (update and DLC) is really thought true well.
The functionalities changes for every one also if you cant or don’t want to spend money on DLCs you still get the same ‘zoo experience. Though with lesser bricks or animals.
To me it’s the same like lego, you can play it perfectly with just a basic set.

That said I do like the idea of adding a game changer to an update. I think being able to become a zookeeper or vet would be a cool update but what I would like even more is the possibility to be a EEP or EAZA holder, this could be implemented quite easy I guess, it’s just some kind of a mini game.

That said as a builder most DLCs are game changing. Europe DLC gave us a bus! That’s awsome!

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

Building pieces are not what make a zoo management game fun IMO. The new animals don't offer new challenges for the most part unless they engage the player in trying something new (like the Aquatic pack kinda did, just on a very small scale).
So what I mean by "game changing" is something that shakes up the gameplay loop, when you mentioned how aviaries and aquariums wouldn't do this you mentioned how what we'd be building would be done in the same fashion as how we play the game now: "just as we do now"
That's if Frontier made the bare minimum effort yes. It doesn't have to be that way though, and we know they're prepared to create the type of expansion I'd like to see, because we've had the Horizons and Odyssey expansions for Elite Dangerous. Both expansions (granted one had an extremely rocky start) offered new gameplay and new ways to play the same game.

I would like to focus on this part, because this is the most telling of your opinion and the source of your frustration.
Right now, both the game and the support are a builder first, management game second, if even one at all.
You want a more management focused experience, with while nothing wrong with that is just not the kind of gameplay frontier decided to focus on. The management in the game is bare bones and barely existant. There are some other threads where this was discussed and i allready put out a rather lenghty opinion, but to make it short, planet zoo might present itself as a management game on the surfice, but without any depth, skill or challenge. In my opinion the main culprit for that is the tradecenter and its omnipotent power, making things like seperation yards, quarantine habitats and any other kind of animal holding based challenge obsolete, even if they were required when we get stuff like animal personalitys or overall better behaviour. Who cares that jumbo is mad if you can just tradecenter him away and put him back to the group when he has calmed down again or you need him in there for 5 mins to make babys and then box him up again.
I personally dislike the tradingcenter and try to play without it, but what it is, is convenient. Do you guys remember when they enhanced the numbers of animals you could put in there and basicly the whole community was in love? yeah, doubt they take that away again outside of something like a challenge mode, which is fine but i doubt it would even happen there.
Point is, this just one of many examples of how planet zoo undercuts any chance for management with convenience, which is a problem, because the need to manage exists mostly because things are not convenient and need to get managed manually with extra measures.
But now the question is, is it really worth stripping convenience away that the community has longed for a long time just to get hopefully more engaging management gameplay?
My personal answer is yes, but not for all modes and toggleable in sandbox.
I could go on and on, for example how fixing the horrendous hitboxes of the animals would allow for more creative stables and such, but the question in the end is still why, why should they force such inconvenient things onto the players who dont want it? Does it make sense that every bison should have their own, seperate box in the stables? Yes, but are the hitboxes of the animals even able to do that? No. Are functoning Gates an option? No (this would actually be really cool in my opinion, imagine being able to select some pieces, put them in a group and label them as "moveable" making you able to choose hat positions they could have and enabling your staff or just you directly to interact with them, opening and closing them) Is there even any benefit to do more then just put down 3 walls and a ceiling for a shelter? No.
And thats basicly the deal with all the possible management options. First theirs no incentive ingame to do it, then the game activly hinders you from making it more then an idear in your head that its actually usable, cause chances will be its not and its you playing make belief to give it meaning and lastly would most of the community even want that in favor of convenience? The game is bad at accessability as it stands, doubt the defs would want to make it even harder taking away convenience for the sake of complexity. Frustrating, but what seems like our reality.
This game is a management game only in steam tags, and i doubt that anything will change about it.

But if we want to discuss that more, i figure we should move to a thread thats about it, like this one.

Improving Planetzoo as a management game

I often hear from many people, that they play planet zoo for the Management and i feel truly sorry for you. After discussing here and there why i dont like it and how to improve the management aspects of the game, why not simply start a thread and do exactly that in a focused way. My main goal...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[ElectricMonk]

So what I mean by "game changing" is something that shakes up the gameplay loop, when you mentioned how aviaries and aquariums wouldn't do this you mentioned how what we'd be building would be done in the same fashion as how we play the game now: "just as we do now"
That's if Frontier made the bare minimum effort yes. It doesn't have to be that way though, and we know they're prepared to create the type of expansion I'd like to see, because we've had the Horizons and Odyssey expansions for Elite Dangerous. Both expansions (granted one had an extremely rocky start) offered new gameplay and new ways to play the same game.

With Planet Zoo, say we go with aviaries and aquariums, it doesn't have to be just animals placed within the confines of a tank or cage and the keepers visit them for their monthly feeding/poop clean up - job done. The care of different types of animals and how you create the habitats that houses them is a part of Planet Zoo's gameplay loop currently and can be an opportunity to have players engage in a variation of what we already do. Having a penguin in a tank full of water is not the same as balancing the life supporting ecosystem within a tank where the water quality/ bacteria/ PH levels are what keep the fish alive. Then on top of that you have an opportunity for new animals that have very different needs to what we currently have to deal with: fish that need to shoal, need to swim in circular tanks, hide within rocks/under the sand/ in logs etc, they need to lay eggs on flat surfaces or crush clams in their mouths, have lots of plants, hide inside an anemone, have fast currents, have no currents...Birds inside aviaries, same deal - different needs, different builds; not building a habitat in the same way I would for a lion.
Now I'm not saying it has to be either of those two things to be an expansion pack. I can imagine a conservation focused expansion for instance, or building a wildlife preserve with limited infrastructure (Youtubers who do 8 hour builds for content would hate it sure, but oh well) and again if you like the DLC packs how they are, nice one...I'm aware I'm on the PZ forum...But after so many samey packs, I just want something more interesting and if that's it and that's all we're getting then cool I got my moneys worth but I can't see myself getting a Planet Zoo 2 if that game ended up being the same game but: "oh but we managed to get aviaries to work so here's that"
No no, I want this game to be one to go back to and not be done with.

Obviously, you’re 100% entitled to you opinion, I will, however, disagree. You talk about new kinds of animals (eg fully aquatic ones) having different requirements / etc. which is fair - there is that capacity. However, there’s also that capacity with land-based and semi-aquatic species in the game already… it seems (to me) that you’re not really wanting an expansion on the current game - more that you want the game to be a different game. One that’s a lot deeper in terms of its management than PZ is. This is, of course, fair enough, but I do t think it’s likely to happen, nor is it something that particularly appeals to me - I don’t see the DLC as leading to ‘bloat’ (at least, yet and not for quite some time). Rather, I see each DLC as adding to the creative possibilities offered by the game…. Each DLC is, for me, game changing in its own way. Whilst, on a basic level, you could see each additional animal as just ‘place in the habitat, decorate and move on…’ (paraphrasing), I see each animal as adding to potential mixes of animals within each zoo or section of each zoo. In these terms, each additional animal / set of build pieces doesn’t just add 1 new thing, it adds lots and lots of new possibilities and permutations. For instance, for me, the upcoming shop benches absolutely constitute something game-changing all by themselves - they will massively increase the creative possibilities for building shops, restaurants and similar that are just as important in creating zoos as animals are.
I like the DLC model just fine because, for me at least, each addition (along with free updates) does exactly what you say - each makes this game better and better, each adds to the gameplay… Each one makes it more likely that this is / will be the game “to go back to and not be done with”. I don’t want an expansion that fundamentally changes the game - I want more additions that add to the great game we have now and make it better and better.