Fdev ! stop the 1 billion a day shared wing pirate massacres bonanza

[Jmanis]

Maybe I play the game all wrong, but it takes me a lot more than that, care to elaborate?

I'll admit there was some exaggeration to my comment, but I'd only concede:

• Hitting friendly is sufficient, achievable in an hour and, arguably, optimal, and
• Repping up with independents is harder due to the lack of superpower rep boosts. Tools like this will ensure you minimise that though.

Reason I suggest friendly is optimal is that yes, payouts are slightly lower, but a lynchpin of successfully farming these is to ensure you have at least one mission (ideally more) generating Threat 3 USS. These only spawn reliably for Expert-rank missions, where lower rep = lower rank missions. IIRC Deadly, Dangerous and Elite will all spawn Threat 4, and will slow your kill times dramatically, outweighing any reduced income with sheer volume of kills.

The other part is, starting at Neutral, most missions wont be for any more than a dozen or so kills, but will still pay enough for +++++ rep. So a quick stack of missions will take you, in most cases, almost halfway through Cordial rep in about 15 minutes.

I'm more than happy to put my claims to the test tonight though... head off to a new, untouched system for me and see how far I can rep up with all factions within an hour.

 

[Jmanis]

You are right, there are definately examples of that. Jmanis post however is far from that, as his reasoning is according the established game world and aligned with ideas from FDev as we can see in past discussions, implementations and so on.

And this is the thing. If FD genuinely doesn't want a game world with consistent reasoning, and just wants to pony up activities, then why address so many imbalances over time.

• Why nerf Borann[1]?
• Why nerf trade mission rewards post-mineral price rebalance?
• Why nerf the Torval/Archon slave runs?
• Why nerf "Seeking Luxuries"
• Why boost exploration payouts?
• Why boost combat payouts?
• Why nerf all other stacking?
• Why implement measure to prevent stacking in OD?
• Why pre-split wing mission payouts to incentivise working as a wing?

Why do any sort of rebalancing whatsoever? If you[2] genuinely don't care about internal consistency of the universe, then you shouldn't care about any of that. But all this proves that FD do care about internal consistency, and with massacres as one of the most internally inconsistent things out there, it needs to be fixed.

[1] Shorter version of saying "nerfing mining prices and introducing demand shaping of prices and sharper falloffs for overrunning demand"
[2] the royal you, not you specifically

 

[Deleted member 182079]

And this is the thing. If FD genuinely doesn't want a game world with consistent reasoning, and just wants to pony up activities, then why address so many imbalances over time.

• Why nerf Borann[1]?
• Why nerf trade mission rewards post-mineral price rebalance?
• Why nerf the Torval/Archon slave runs?
• Why nerf "Seeking Luxuries"
• Why boost exploration payouts?
• Why boost combat payouts?
• Why nerf all other stacking?
• Why implement measure to prevent stacking in OD?
• Why pre-split wing mission payouts to incentivise working as a wing?

Why do any sort of rebalancing whatsoever? If you[2] genuinely don't care about internal consistency of the universe, then you shouldn't care about any of that. But all this proves that FD do care about internal consistency, and with massacres as one of the most internally inconsistent things out there, it needs to be fixed.

[1] Shorter version of saying "nerfing mining prices and introducing demand shaping of prices and sharper falloffs for overrunning demand"
[2] the royal you, not you specifically

It could quite simply be to keep players in the hamster wheel for longer (nerfing to not allow players to reach their goal quicker, boosting to motivate players to engage with an activity more). Looks good in their internal metrics and long-termers are probably also more likely to spend on Arx.

Edit: just to add, it's been my suspicion for a while now that FDev don't really balance things based on internal consistency/world building, but purely from a player engagement viewpoint. I could be wrong of course, and perhaps it's a bit of a cynical view, but things like "multiply combat payouts by simply a factor of 4" or the initial outrageous FC maintenance cost, that got trimmed down quite significantly after players complained kind of suggest that's what they do.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

I'll admit there was some exaggeration to my comment, but I'd only concede:

• Hitting friendly is sufficient, achievable in an hour and, arguably, optimal, and
• Repping up with independents is harder due to the lack of superpower rep boosts. Tools like this will ensure you minimise that though.

Reason I suggest friendly is optimal is that yes, payouts are slightly lower, but a lynchpin of successfully farming these is to ensure you have at least one mission (ideally more) generating Threat 3 USS. These only spawn reliably for Expert-rank missions, where lower rep = lower rank missions. IIRC Deadly, Dangerous and Elite will all spawn Threat 4, and will slow your kill times dramatically, outweighing any reduced income with sheer volume of kills.

The other part is, starting at Neutral, most missions wont be for any more than a dozen or so kills, but will still pay enough for +++++ rep. So a quick stack of missions will take you, in most cases, almost halfway through Cordial rep in about 15 minutes.

I'm more than happy to put my claims to the test tonight though... head off to a new, untouched system for me and see how far I can rep up with all factions within an hour.

Yes, I use that tool too.
The main limiting factors for me are:
- being able to wing up (for various real life reasons not easy)
- no factions in war states (this could be maintained by players, but I find the lower ranked factions tend to be clumped together and other players can easily push a couple of factions into civil war when I'm doing other stuff).

All in all I can earn on my own maybe 100m/hr when I stack up with missions on my own and none of the factions are at war, otherwise half that.

I don't think the majority of players are easily able to form a wing of 4 for this, that's why I don't think it should be nerfed.

 

[Jmanis]

Yes, I use that tool too.
The main limiting factors for me are:
- being able to wing up (for various real life reasons not easy)
- no factions in war states (this could be maintained by players, but I find the lower ranked factions tend to be clumped together and other players can easily push a couple of factions into civil war when I'm doing other stuff).

All in all I can earn on my own maybe 100m/hr when I stack up with missions on my own and none of the factions are at war, otherwise half that.

I don't think the majority of players are easily able to form a wing of 4 for this, that's why I don't think it should be nerfed.

See, 1 hour nets me around 250-300m, including the stack time, solo The critical part is getting a lower ranked (Expert) mission. Targets in those drop like flies.

EDIT: Though regardless, you claim 100m, I claim 250-300m... it still rips shreds off the earn rates you can get from Wing Assassinations and Threat 6&7 Pirate Activity sites. That's the big problem here. Again.... I have no problem with people netting 1b an hour... but it should be against the hardest challenges, not punching weak NPCs.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

but it should be against the hardest challenges, not punching weak NPCs

Agreed.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

See, 1 hour nets me around 250-300m, including the stack time, solo The critical part is getting a lower ranked (Expert) mission. Targets in those drop like flies.

EDIT: Though regardless, you claim 100m, I claim 250-300m... it still rips shreds off the earn rates you can get from Wing Assassinations and Threat 6&7 Pirate Activity sites. That's the big problem here. Again.... I have no problem with people netting 1b an hour... but it should be against the hardest challenges, not punching weak NPCs.

Actually not just the reward but also the combat rating should be rebalanced: increase the combat rating even more for those that can do them solo. So, each player in a wing of four would get say +1 combat rating, while a solo player would get +4.

 

[Drelthar]

In my opinion, bringing people to work together in this game isn't the worst thing FD could do.
And who cares about a billion?

Can I have a few billion then please?

 

[bangermsuk]

And this is the thing. If FD genuinely doesn't want a game world with consistent reasoning, and just wants to pony up activities, then why address so many imbalances over time.

• Why nerf Borann[1]?
• Why nerf trade mission rewards post-mineral price rebalance?
• Why nerf the Torval/Archon slave runs?
• Why nerf "Seeking Luxuries"
• Why boost exploration payouts?
• Why boost combat payouts?
• Why nerf all other stacking?
• Why implement measure to prevent stacking in OD?
• Why pre-split wing mission payouts to incentivise working as a wing?

Why do any sort of rebalancing whatsoever? If you[2] genuinely don't care about internal consistency of the universe, then you shouldn't care about any of that. But all this proves that FD do care about internal consistency, and with massacres as one of the most internally inconsistent things out there, it needs to be fixed.

[1] Shorter version of saying "nerfing mining prices and introducing demand shaping of prices and sharper falloffs for overrunning demand"
[2] the royal you, not you specifically

well come on borann was a hotspot heaven for all commanders to look for triple hotspots of the biggest value commodity in the game.it needed to come down or every player would be mining for 50 million void opal triple hotspots.

 

[RetroPaladin]

Shared missions should share the reward.
Also, wing missions are too generous.

But first of all - economics should be fixed. Its a joke when Sidewinder + Scarab are cheaper than simple handgun from Odyssey.

 

[Jmanis]

well come on borann was a hotspot heaven for all commanders to look for triple hotspots of the biggest value commodity in the game.it needed to come down or every player would be mining for 50 million void opal triple hotspots.

Sure, but would that have mattered in the context of:

• 50m payout missions to transport 180t of gold 1 jump
• Massacre stacking (claimed at anywhere between 100-300m in this thread)
• Stacked powerplant destruction missions which reward 50m for a single PP hit

If everything pays out ridiculously high amounts of money, then balance achieved

But you're absolutely right... Borann should have been nerfed, because this stuff matters to the game, and why massacres are also pretty out of line.

 

[bangermsuk]

sure, but most triples hotspots have now vanished also. i fought they would of left a few meniscal one in just not in the one system but randomised it a bit. not removed it completely.

stack mission i haven't a clue on. i never do it has i always die

 

[Bigmaec]

Can I have a few billion then please?

Sure. Find three other CMDRs, a system to stack massacre missions, and keep shooting for a day.
OP says that is so easy it's an exploit.

 

[Sighman]

Sure. Find three other CMDRs, a system to stack massacre missions, and keep shooting for a day.
OP says that is so easy it's an exploit.

The mistake some make is to stack the massacres and then chase POI all over the system. Instead, choose a destination system with rings and a RES [Low] and pop your target pirates there.

 

[Jmanis]

The mistake some make is to stack the massacres and then chase POI all over the system. Instead, choose a destination system with rings and a RES [Low] and pop your target pirates there.

Actually, chasing POI is my preferred method. You need to pick the right system and have at minimum one Expert-rank mission stacked, preferably... err... "incorrectly" stacked (i.e needing to be done consecutively).

Done right, you travel approx 2,000Ls in a minute (thanks to POI spawning in deep space), and get up to 7 kills in two minutes.

I've tried Low res before, spawn rate is too slow.

 

[Bigmaec]

Actually, chasing POI is my preferred method. You need to pick the right system and have at minimum one Expert-rank mission stacked, preferably... err... "incorrectly" stacked (i.e needing to be done consecutively).

Done right, you travel approx 2,000Ls in a minute (thanks to POI spawning in deep space), and get up to 7 kills in two minutes.

I've tried Low res before, spawn rate is too slow.

D2EA says you're doing it wrong.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Actually, chasing POI is my preferred method. You need to pick the right system and have at minimum one Expert-rank mission stacked, preferably... err... "incorrectly" stacked (i.e needing to be done consecutively).

Done right, you travel approx 2,000Ls in a minute (thanks to POI spawning in deep space), and get up to 7 kills in two minutes.

I've tried Low res before, spawn rate is too slow.

Agreed, the Low RES is only worth it for an AFK build, but you have to choose the right system, as otherwise you can end up going back and forth in excess of 20,000ly each time. By the way @Jmanis, my earnings per hour are based on doing it in a RES, so I can probably up that quite a bit if I use the POIs in a smaller system.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

well come on borann was a hotspot heaven for all commanders to look for triple hotspots of the biggest value commodity in the game.it needed to come down or every player would be mining for 50 million void opal triple hotspots.

I agree the credit earnings rate was way excessive at Borann, but the upshot was that you never had a system so full of players where all sorts of playstyles converged. Mining, player-to-player trade (via FCs), FC ferrying (especially with the Ice Box or whatever it was called), piracy (particularly in-ring - looking out for miners by eye-balling their lasers from 20-30km away, or trying to work out what direction the sound effects of mining rocks came from, was brilliant stuff), ganking, bounty hunting, miner protection wings.

From an MMO perspective, this period was the highlight for me since starting the game in 2014, and hasn't been topped since unfortunately.

 

[Bigmaec]

I agree the credit earnings rate was way excessive at Borann, but the upshot was that you never had a system so full of players where all sorts of playstyles converged. Mining, hauling (to FCs), FC ferrying (especially with the Ice Box or whatever it was called), piracy (particularly in-ring - looking out for miners by eye-balling their lasers from 20-30km away, or trying to work out what direction the sound effects of mining rocks came from, was brilliant stuff), ganking, bounty hunting, miner protection wings.

From an MMO perspective, this period was the highlight for me since starting the game in 2014, and hasn't been topped since unfortunately.

This
Borann was amazing.

 

[CaptainPugwash]

piracy (particularly in-ring - looking out for miners by eye-balling their lasers from 20-30km away, or trying to work out what direction the sound effects of mining rocks came from, was brilliant stuff)

I would pay fdev to find a way to make this possible again.