Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

It wont work. So if the tech ever works, they are going to have to redo things again.

Off the top of my head....

* You have to respawn in a hospital bed now. All criminals spawn at grim hex. grim hex has 2 or 3 hospital beds. if you respawn in the bed, but dont get out of it, no one else can spawn in it. During the first jumptown 2, you could block criminals from re-spawning by having 2 or 3 people just sit in the grim hex beds.

During Ninetails lock down where you can sell med supplies to one specific station.

* at the few locations that sold med supplies there were several ships landed at the locations. inside at the one terminal there would be a line of people waiting to buy med supplies.

* at the one location that bought the med supplies there are only 2 landing spots for large ships. can block people from landing buy spawning a large ship and just letting is sit on the pad for whatever the timer is. When it gets stored just spawn it again.

* the selling location has 2 terminals to sell. another line of people waiting to use the terminals. this is exacerbated by the fact that there is a limited about that can be bought and sold. so that you have to be at the terminal for minutes. you cant just walk up and sell instantly.

I think if you are ok with screwing with people who are screwing with game mechanics you can ameliorate a lot of that.

Irl you will get turfed out of a hospital. I wouldn't see it as immersion or game breaking for people who are hanging around in medi-beds when there is a backlock of dead to be 'moved' to a hab pod or even just a random room if those start filling up.

For things like landing pad blocking etc..I dunno,

I think this is why the whole single shard thing, (or server meshing) is something that will only ever work for a game like EvE.

For events specific to places like that a temporary map modification would do wonders,

Stacks of marked up 'temporary' landing / loading & unloading pads. You could make it look cool by adding swarms of NPC's driving about in rovers or Argo cargos.

I mean even in EvE the single shard thing had times where it went wrong...hell didn't the players get annoyed and blow up jiita at one point?
 
I mean even in EvE the single shard thing had times where it went wrong...hell didn't the players get annoyed and blow up jiita at one point?
If you are referring to the “Burn Jita” (or “Burn Uedama” nowdays) then no…
that event has nothing to do with people getting annoyed by Eve’s single shard…

that event is related to some PvP groups “roleplaying”… though if you ask me, is just a group of players butt hurt because “carebears” are too comfty in highsec making ISK

The most impactful, and sometimes the most hated, consequence of single shard in Eve is called TiDi (Time Dilation)
 
If you are referring to the “Burn Jita” (or “Burn Uedama” nowdays) then no…
that event has nothing to do with people getting annoyed by Eve’s single shard…

that event is related to some PvP groups “roleplaying”… though if you ask me, is just a group of players butt hurt because “carebears” are too comfty in highsec making ISK

The most impactful, and sometimes the most hated, consequence of single shard in Eve is called TiDi (Time Dilation)

Ah yea the slide show big battles...

I had loads of fun in EvE with the ninja salvage / speed tank game loops.
 
Their ideas are an order of magnitude worse than the landing spline stuff

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Sounds miserable. And completely ignores in what gravity this should happen.

From their thread about the video


Hah, for once i agree with you. That is a horribad idea.
 
Food for thought:

"You know what I've never heard CIG say? They have never told me how "hundreds" of players are going to land at a station with 20 platforms. They've never told me how hundreds of players are going to interact with 6 terminals. Or worse, they've never told me how hundreds of players are going to land at the two pads at a mining facility and interact with the single terminal.

And assuming we've prevented hundreds of players from instancing in the same instance of SMO-22 to avoid hundreds of Caterpillars trying to load at the same time; how will you make it so that the PvP they hold so near-and-dear actually functions? Gotta get people into the same instance.

In fact, how do I meet someone for a planned duel? Do we have to party up in order to get into the same instance?

I'm not talking about the technology... I'm talking about the raw logic. If you simultaneously have a million players in the game, how to you stop SMO-22 from being always occupied when you fly there?"

The obvious answer will be provided by Queue Tech Tier 0.
 
Agreed, which the fellow I quoted coldly and logically detailed.

Even the proposed vision is untenable. For the game to function at all, it'll required multiple instances.

Shhhh.... can't be calling them instances. That's been done before, by FD! They need a new name for it, and a different way of doing it, then they can claim its never been done before.

How about Advanced Splintering Shards?

Just one small issue....
 
I posted a thread regarding the logic or lack thereof of a single server for a game of the size and scope of SC.

We'll see how long it lasts before the resident white knights spam-report it for FUD.

Someone been smoking on CR's pipe...

Dude, space is big. thousands of players is nothing with 100 systems. also hundreds of players does not mean 100s of ships. The bengal alone can be crewed by 100+ players.
 
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/swr310/anyone_know_if_server_tech_exists_that_would/


For anyone wanting the opinion of an MMO dev who thinks SC is a meme…

Disclaimer: I’ve been making multiplayer and massively-multiplayer games for the better part of two decades, so while I don’t have an inside track with CIG, I can maybe provide some insights here. Of course, anything referring to what CIG may be doing is speculation based on my own, similar experiences.

This is an interesting question. As someone else said, it’s not a hardware problem, as there are servers in existence right now that are more powerful than CIG will ever need. In truth, if they did need that level of hardware the game would be cost-prohibitive to run because of the actual dollar cost of running the game on that hardware for an extended period of time.

With any always-on persistent-world game, server costs are a substantial part of ongoing development costs, so it’s important that the developer optimize the game so it can run on the least expensive server hardware possible.

If your question is whether or not the software architecture exists to do what they want, the answer is “in theory, yes, in practice, no.”

SpatialOS is attempting to solve the very same problem set, but the issue is that as more servers need to communicate with each other about what their clients are doing, the number of messages that must be sent, prioritized, and executed increases exponentially along not one, but two axes: more players and more servers. This results in hard upper limits on the total number of players in any one area, and the game must be designed with this in mind to avoid these limits being reached.

“Server” in this case refers to the software that runs the game for players to connect to as opposed to the hardware that runs that software. With games, a hardware server typically runs multiple instances of the server software for players to connect. Hardware servers are designed to do just that.

The more interesting side of this conundrum is whether or not this kind of “perfect connectivity” is even necessary for a game like SC. Sure, it’s a great technical North Star, but the fact remains that more people does not mean better gameplay. In fact, it often means degraded client performance and a feeling of insignificance for players, which can negatively affect their engagement.

With regards to client performance specifically, many online games can support more connections than they actually allow because the server communication is less of an issue than the client performance in situations where large groups of players can be in the same local area. Guild Wars 2, ESO, and New World all limit connectivity based on client performance, not server performance.

On the design side, the more people that are in an area increases the spectacle of the gameplay but it also decreases something important for player engagement: perceived impact. In general, players are egotistical and like to feel impactful. The larger the size of a potential group interaction, the less appealing it is to most people. Of course, there are large groups of people who like running 50-strong as a well-oiled machine, but for the most part they are in the extreme minority when compared to “total people who will play a game.”

Additionally, if you allow large groups of players to work together, this also means building some kind of content for them to do, which means either a large amount of content work (such as a WoW raid), complex open world PvP systems (such as Eve Online), or both.

At any rate, it’s all “doable” but what remains to be seen is whether or not CIG can do it. This kind of server tech has existed in some form for some time (even WoW uses similar tech now), and the fact that they have had an indeterminate estimate for “Server Meshing” for literal years is a sign that either they’re lying about it being worked on or they haven’t been able to hire someone with the knowledge to do it so they’re having to figure it out themselves.

The latter is the most likely case, especially if you consider that the poor soul(s) working on it are probably also the people having to fix existing major issues with whatever awful server tech they’re running right now. CIG is basically a meme among game developers these days, so I imagine it’s hard for them to hire actually competent people.

Edit: I should also note that I’m specifically referring to client-server connections for “main gameplay” actions like moving and shooting. It’s worth noting that MMO-type games often have multiple server “types” that run different tertiary services, such as logins, friends lists, chat, or a player driven market (or in SC’s case Quantum).
 
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Naaa the amount of data to be exchanged between 2 capital ships with 100 crew each is not actually that big.

You only need to care about the data of things that exit the ship , turret / weapon positions and damage.

Ship 2 doesn't need to know the location of all players on ship 1 or their inventory
 
Naaa the amount of data to be exchanged between 2 capital ships with 100 crew each is not actually that big.

You only need to care about the data of things that exit the ship , turret / weapon positions and damage.

Ship 2 doesn't need to know the location of all players on ship 1 or their inventory

And there comes in culling and other magic tech. But CR doesn't want that. You always seem to discount the CR factor. CR wants it so that if you are on one ship you can pull out a sniper gun, zoom in, and see the people on the other ship doing their thing,

What you are talking about is the sensible way of doing things. This does not apply to CIG as long as CR is in charge.
 
And there comes in culling and other magic tech. But CR doesn't want that. You always seem to discount the CR factor. CR wants it so that if you are on one ship you can pull out a sniper gun, zoom in, and see the people on the other ship doing their thing,

What you are talking about is the sensible way of doing things. This does not apply to CIG as long as CR is in charge.
This does apply to CIG because SC uses normal culling techniques like any other game out there. You have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Well, other than Elite Dangerous Odyssey 🤣
Hahaha, true.
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Instead of using normal game design principles, David Braben searches for the maximum fidelity in trade for massive performance dips and does not employ culling in his latest expansion. Braben is a madman, Odyssey won't ever run well with him at the helm.
 
Hahaha, true.
View attachment 292636
Instead of using normal game design principles, David Braben searches for the maximum fidelity in trade for massive performance dips and does not employ culling in his latest expansion. Braben is a madman, Odyssey won't ever run well with him at the helm.

The whole 'not using standard video game magic' is so (french for slowed). It adds so very very little.

Like with elite, we could have had epic ship interiors that are customisable with a similar method to your homestead in Vigor.

You push button to exit cockpit. Load into locally hosted ship interior that oh no....is actually bigger or smaller or a different shape than the actual ship (shock horror!!!)

But nooooooooooooo

It's all got to be super real like star citizen. If Elite stop trying to make star citizen they can make something great
 
Surely (don't call me Shirley) the fidelity in other parts of the game should be reflected in its most basic functionality, how the ships fly.

Backers will happily accept no-clip in space type flight with some momentum thrown in to simulate inertia but at the same time insist that having to play Star Commuter on a train, take bio breaks, not run too fast or they'll overheat, eat/drink or they'll die and all the rest of it is great because fidelity?

And don't tell me the flight model has real physics it just looks like no-clip in space because reasons. If it flies like no-clip in space, feels like no-clip in space and acts like it it is no-clip in space no matter what you say. Arguing otherwise is saying a duck is not a duck because I said so now shut up and sticking your fingers in your ears.
 
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