So there's absolutely 0 reasons for Odyssey to run poorly anymore.

Banana's_Are_Good_For_You

Banana's_Are_Good_For_You
metatheurgist said:
Or poor ideas poorly implemented. Completely separate CQC, Powerpants, Crime and Inconvenience, Annoying player factions, Please! Give us a bit more money for mining and combat!, Sure! Please, enjoy this completely broken economy....
Click to expand...
So, what broke the economy again?
Just looking for some focus in this particular area.
 
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Mogen Teras

M
Zoltair said:
RIP console commanders. My worry is that going forward (say in about a year) they will put out a half baked "finished" odyssey and that will be it. What was it FDEV said about a year ago? That they would support DLC (which odyssey basically is) for 2 years. I hate to doomcry but this does not give me confidence in any future for ED in any form. I'm so disgusted with FDEV behavior I'm about done. Hard to be motivated to play a game with developers that you cant trust to uphold their promises. (FC Interiors anyone?)
Click to expand...
Technically speaking, spending 11 months trying to patch it back into a bare-minimum industry-acceptable state is still considered "supporting the DLC."
 

londonx

L
It is surely now more about time (as a result of the initial performance issues), Odyssey has a roadmap of content and some of that we were told is linked to narrative. I hypothesise that the delay in narrative due to the split code base is also ultimately delaying future paid for DLC which is not good for business. A 2 year life span for Odyssey seems about right while the next paid for DLC gives the opportunity for a fresh marketing campaign not tainted by the Odyssey launch. I wonder but feel fairly confident that the writing was on the wall for old hardware (inc PC builds) for the next paid for DLC eitherway (that point is inevitable). Unlike say NMS or other MMO, ED is very sim based and like most simulator software it gets ever more CPU bound the more things you try to simulate... I'm specifically thinking of atmopsheric flight, weather systems and more layered AI where it is not just about numbers of NPCs walking around a "city" but say animal behaviour relating to environments on 1:1 scale planets.
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
nanite2000 said:
Absolutely. All you need to do is buy a top-of-the-range graphics card (RRP ~$2500) and the game should run reasonably well at around 60FPS.
Click to expand...
Or a medium spec gaming gpu RRP £400

dont get me wrong, it sucks for console owners..... and with the component shortage now is a terrible time to buy a new gpu (I want to buy a new (2nd hand) car and even those are currently over inflated)

but you dont have to get a gpu of RRP $2500 to play elite dangerous (is there even a GPU with that RRP? i thought the 3090ti was not out yet?) i have a 3090 and even that was "only" £1400. (and this is a poor choice for a pure gaming GPU... a 3080FE is by far the better purchase for gamers and if you sign up to the discords / telegram you CAN get them for £650 in the uk)
 

nanite2000

nanite2000
[VR] Mad Mike said:
Or a medium spec gaming gpu RRP £400

dont get me wrong, it sucks for console owners..... and with the component shortage now is a terrible time to buy a new gpu (I want to buy a new (2nd hand) car and even those are currently over inflated)

but you dont have to get a gpu of RRP $2500 to play elite dangerous (is there even a GPU with that RRP? i thought the 3090ti was not out yet?) i have a 3090 and even that was "only" £1400. (and this is a poor choice for a pure gaming GPU... a 3080FE is by far the better purchase for gamers and if you sign up to the discords / telegram you CAN get them for £650 in the uk)
Click to expand...
$ do not have the same value as £.

Besides, it’s still unreasonable to expect people to fork out hundreds of pounds to continue enjoying a game that has been working perfectly fine for years.
 

CaptainPugwash

CaptainPugwash
Morbad said:
I am thoroughly convinced that if Frontier could have made Odyssey perform acceptably on consoles, Odyssey would be on consoles, irrespective of any other control concessions that would have had to have been made. None of those concessions prevented Elite: Dangerous from having seven years of updates on consoles, and they would have been trivial to continue for Odyssey. None of them have anything to do with underlying technical limitations.
Click to expand...
What still mystifies me is they got JW2 to work on PS4 with what seems to me the layman to be ok graphics, using the same(ish) Cobra engine (but with dx12 rather than dx11).

Maybe settlement CZs on PS4 were a step too far but exploration on the new terrain seemed within reach, so maybe they could have merged code bases and allowed PS4 users to try out the new planets and UI etc (for free) while disabling settlements and on foot stuff, just like what they plan for PCs? But what do I know ..
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
nanite2000 said:
$ do not have the same value as £.
Click to expand...
you are splitting hairs. show me a gpu that is rrp 2500 dollars unless you mean Jamaican dollars.

ED:O has never worked fine on a console. am not sure where you got that from. like I said I do sympathise , it sucks but it'd not as expensive as you say to get a capable pc.
 

nanite2000

nanite2000
[VR] Mad Mike said:
you are splitting hairs. show me a gpu that is rrp 2500 dollars unless you mean Jamaican dollars.
Click to expand...
[VR] Mad Mike said:
ED:O has never worked fine on a console. am not sure where you got that from. like I said I do sympathise , it sucks but it'd not as expensive as you say to get a capable pc.
Click to expand...
Well, ED:O has never worked fine on PC either, so I don't see why PC owners should be forced to fork out hundreds of dollars/pounds for a new graphics card just to be able to continue enjoying a game (Horizons) that has worked fine for years simply because FDev lack the will or the ability to bring the game's performance to an acceptable standard.
 

Morbad

Morbad
[VR] CaptainPugwash said:
What still mystifies me is they got JW2 to work on PS4 with what seems to me the layman to be ok graphics, using the same(ish) Cobra engine (but with dx12 rather than dx11).

Maybe settlement CZs on PS4 were a step too far but exploration on the new terrain seemed within reach, so maybe they could have merged code bases and allowed PS4 users to try out the new planets and UI etc (for free) while disabling settlements and on foot stuff, just like what they plan for PCs? But what do I know ..
Click to expand...

They likely could have done this, but why?

Without the full on foot gameplay, which would likely have pushed performance limitations too far, you mostly just have Horizons, some colored skies, and new terrain generation. Still takes a fair bit of work, performance still goes down, and it's not substantial enough content to sell as an expansion.
 

CaptainPugwash

CaptainPugwash
Morbad said:
They likely could have done this, but why?

Without the full on foot gameplay, which would likely have pushed performance limitations too far, you mostly just have Horizons, some colored skies, and new terrain generation. Still takes a fair bit of work, performance still goes down, and it's not substantial enough content to sell as an expansion.
Click to expand...
Why? Keep the same code across all platforms and enable the full ODY experience on the newer consoles. But yeah, it’s probably not financially viable, but to me smacks of the same type of decision making that brought them close to disabling VR entirely in the new code base …
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
nanite2000 said:

Well, ED:O has never worked fine on PC either, so I don't see why PC owners should be forced to fork out hundreds of dollars/pounds for a new graphics card just to be able to continue enjoying a game (Horizons) that has worked fine for years simply because FDev lack the will or the ability to bring the game's performance to an acceptable standard.
Click to expand...
you said RRP (you CAN get FE gpus for RRP if you make some effort). also you just said $ ...... which the accepted general currency would be USD many of your links are for cheaper currencies (I used Jamaican $ to prove a point but AUD also counts). and finally the bottom line which you still can't accept is you don't NEED any of those GPUs to play ED:O. a 3080ti is nice.... but overkill. a 3060ti is fine (even less probably ok)
again.... I am not against you on this i feel bad for console owners and having to buy the game on another platform is not ideal.... but if the vanilla 2013 consoles can't run it and neither Sony or MS will allow pro/xb1x only games then it can't be helped.
not developing for the current gen however is imo the worrying sign for the future of the game.
but equally you trying to make it sound worse to fit your own agenda is also not right.

the Same thing happened to Mac users with Horizons as well as oculus store users with ED:O (I was an oculus store user btw who also got dropped)

if you actually want a fair price for a gpu rather than linking overpriced stuff then

https://twitter.com/x/status/1339929578039599104
Source: https://mobile.twitter.com/partalert/status/1339929578039599104?lang=en-GB
 
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krylite

krylite
I think the worst case scenario, is that FDev may not be able to solve the last major bottlenecks that are holding back the desired optimal level performances quickly enough. Then I guess I would imagine, the game with PC only moving forward could get slower updates like what happened iduring the delay with finishing the ps4 port, extended for over a year and more, also delaying progress on Horizons back in 2016-17.

I don't get some thinking that Odyssey should be a no brainer. The new era starting with Odyssey was pushing and pioneering the "frontier" of open world gaming and simulation again, very highly ambitious, where I don't see any other publisher gamedev firm major or otherwise even bothering to be this ambitious while also having standards to scientific fidelity with over 200k+ stars' data from real life astronomy charting, and plausible hard sci-fi world building (of course with some necessary choice compromises they had to make for game balance and mmo conditions) . Like if EA or some other corporatized game industry giant bought Frontier and ED, they would have b------ized the Elite franchise into something unrecgonizable like stripping away the entire stellar forge sim framework, and slap on the fake starboxes again like most any other space genre sim that always takes shortcuts. The habitable or traveable worlds would likely be stripped down to 50 or so, and no better than something like ST: online, and then dumping the franchise for good after milking a product sales cycle of only a few years.

The Elite franchise survived and continued on after a 10-15 year hiatus since Elite 3:FFE, and even if dev slows down until hardware catches up again for working with the new set of complexity( like what happend with FSX's early years, then for ED's scope of combined galatic scope + ship sim gameplay + landable terrain + on-foot with Odyssey, and unprecedented working mix on hundreds of thousands of settlement instances and a continuing working galactic scope all working in real time so adding existing cpu cycles on top of it before Odyssey was added on it ; and it's just amazing now ships of npc's and pc's can all be in the same instance whilre a firefight is going on in an Odyssey settlement instance. ) , as long as the vision survives, ED could very well have another round of next generation updates in 5, 10 years from now just as what happend from '95 to '12-15, and perhaps console would even make a comeback. I think ED's history is all too often plagued by regency bias , like every generation of new players , and immediate vocal customer reaction negativity with very little patience and appreciation for the ambitious vision they've pulled of and will likely continue to do so continuing years from now.
 
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nanite2000

nanite2000
[VR] Mad Mike said:
you said RRP (you CAN get FE gpus for RRP if you make some effort). also you just said $ ...... which the accepted general currency would be USD many of your links are for cheaper currencies (I used Jamaican $ to prove a point but AUD also counts). and finally the bottom line which you still can't accept is you don't NEED any of those GPUs to play ED:O. a 3080ti is nice.... but overkill. a 3060ti is fine (even less probably ok)
again.... I am not against you on this i feel bad for console owners and having to buy the game on another platform is not ideal.... but if the vanilla 2013 consoles can't run it and neither Sony or MS will allow pro/xb1x only games then it can't be helped.
not developing for the current gen however is imo the worrying sign for the future of the game.
but equally you trying to make it sound worse to fit your own agenda is also not right.

the Same thing happened to Mac users with Horizons as well as oculus store users with ED:O (I was an oculus store user btw who also got dropped)
Click to expand...
Fair enough.

my point is that by any reasonable measure, Odyssey runs terribly for the calibre of graphics and gameplay you get for it. If the graphics were stunning, people would understandably see the need to upgrade their graphics cards.

but it’s really a mediocre FPS that looks like it’s running on an 8-year-old graphics engine yet requires next gen hardware to play it at a reasonable frame rate, and the engine is still broken in several parts.

Many players have either chosen not to upgrade or regretted upgrading, due to the aforementioned issues, and so forcing the upgrade on to them before fixing these performance and bugs feels needlessly antagonistic.

And I have serious doubts that either performance or bugs will be fixed now. They will simply roll out their planned features (delayed due to them spending so much time trying unsuccessfully to fix their sub-par game engine), and then I think we’ll see updates quietly stop without warning or explanation (just like they did these past couple of months).
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
nanite2000 said:
Fair enough.

my point is that by any reasonable measure, Odyssey runs terribly for the calibre of graphics and gameplay you get for it. If the graphics were stunning, people would understandably see the need to upgrade their graphics cards.

but it’s really a mediocre FPS that looks like it’s running on an 8-year-old graphics engine yet requires next gen hardware to play it at a reasonable frame rate, and the engine is still broken in several parts.

Many players have either chosen not to upgrade or regretted upgrading, due to the aforementioned issues, and so forcing the upgrade on to them before fixing these performance and bugs feels needlessly antagonistic.

And I have serious doubts that either performance or bugs will be fixed now. They will simply roll out their planned features (delayed due to them spending so much time trying unsuccessfully to fix their sub-par game engine), and then I think we’ll see updates quietly stop without warning or explanation (just like they did these past couple of months).
Click to expand...
no argument there on the FPS side of the game mate. I have been trying to get into the FPS side of things and it just feels janky and simply not that fun to me. there are other parts of ED:O I do enjoy however and I doubt I will go back to ED:H again

its performance at launch was woeful but it runs ok now (even in VR which is a cruel mistress on your hardware) that said.... at odds with what I said above about not needing a high end GPU for ED:O...... you actually do for VR. 4K 90fps with stereoscopic 3D takes some doing

is ED:O worth upgrading your pc for ....... it's personal choice of course but I would say not in isolation no. but with more and more playstation exclusives coming to PC and almost all Xbox exclusives, no online monthly fees and cheap games like humble and fanatical, personally over the life of the machine I think pc gaming is actually possibly better value than console so long as you steer clear of scalper pricing.
 

[DOOK] Droogie

[DOOK] Droogie
[VR] Mad Mike said:
you are splitting hairs. show me a gpu that is rrp 2500 dollars unless you mean Jamaican dollars.

ED:O has never worked fine on a console. am not sure where you got that from. like I said I do sympathise , it sucks but it'd not as expensive as you say to get a capable pc.
Click to expand...
Well, the current gpu market makes graphics cards prohibitively expensive. PC gaming is in a bad spot because of it.
 

Ralph Vargr

Ralph Vargr
[DOOK] Droogie said:
Well, the current gpu market makes graphics cards prohibitively expensive. PC gaming is in a bad spot because of it.
Click to expand...
Only through the grace of charity did I get last year's gaming laptop gifted to me as a path forward. My 5 year old desktop is french fried when it comes to Oddy.
 

Mogen Teras

M
krylite said:
I think the worst case scenario, is that FDev may not be able to solve the last major bottlenecks that are holding back the desired optimal level performances quickly enough. Then I guess I would imagine, the game with PC only moving forward could get slower updates like what happened iduring the delay with finishing the ps4 port, extended for over a year and more, also delaying progress on Horizons back in 2016-17.

I don't get some thinking that Odyssey should be a no brainer. The new era starting with Odyssey was pushing and pioneering the "frontier" of open world gaming and simulation again, very highly ambitious, where I don't see any other publisher gamedev firm major or otherwise even bothering to be this ambitious while also having standards to scientific fidelity with over 200k+ stars' data from real life astronomy charting, and plausible hard sci-fi world building (of course with some necessary choice compromises they had to make for game balance and mmo conditions) . Like if EA or some other corporatized game industry giant bought Frontier and ED, they would have b------ized the Elite franchise into something unrecgonizable like stripping away the entire stellar forge sim framework, and slap on the fake starboxes again like most any other space genre sim that always takes shortcuts. The habitable or traveable worlds would likely be stripped down to 50 or so, and no better than something like ST: online, and then dumping the franchise for good after milking a product sales cycle of only a few years.

The Elite franchise survived and continued on after a 10-15 year hiatus since Elite 3:FFE, and even if dev slows down until hardware catches up again for working with the new set of complexity( like what happend with FSX's early years, then for ED's scope of combined galatic scope + ship sim gameplay + landable terrain + on-foot with Odyssey, and unprecedented working mix on hundreds of thousands of settlement instances and a continuing working galactic scope all working in real time so adding existing cpu cycles on top of it before Odyssey was added on it ; and it's just amazing now ships of npc's and pc's can all be in the same instance whilre a firefight is going on in an Odyssey settlement instance. ) , as long as the vision survives, ED could very well have another round of next generation updates in 5, 10 years from now just as what happend from '95 to '12-15, and perhaps console would even make a comeback. I think ED's history is all too often plagued by regency bias , like every generation of new players , and immediate vocal customer reaction negativity with very little patience and appreciation for the ambitious vision they've pulled of and will likely continue to do so continuing years from now.
Click to expand...
Why should people suffer mediocrity in the hopes of an empty promise of future potential? People buy products to use them right now. You should not be expecting people to buy things for what they could be 10 years from now. That's just an egregious stretch to try to defend the situation as it is right now.
 
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