Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
robertsspaceindustries.com

Sandi Roberts talks with Todd Papy - Star Citizen Spectrum

Its over on her twitter page. She basically has 3 questions for him. Q1/3: Status on getting an improved in-game map? 1. We are working on the star map in S42 first and that includes fps radar...
robertsspaceindustries.com robertsspaceindustries.com

Its over on her twitter page. She basically has 3 questions for him.

Q1/3: Status on getting an improved in-game map?

1. We are working on the star map in S42 first and that includes fps radar and local map associated with it, once its done with S42 we will transition it into the PU.

Q2/3: Are they working on building procedural algorithms for building out the interiors of city buildings and street level exploration areas so they don't have to keep putting them together by hand?

2. We are working on procedural tools that dont necessarily build it out completely but what we do is call out certain things that are important to us whether those be shops or certain moments or certain rooms that we feel would make an area, from there we do a layout generation, test it, play it and see how it feels and from there that will become basically our object container that we move into the PU. Now with the team we are working on that for space stations already then we are in pre production for under ground facilities and we havent even started production yet for building interiors which would consist of apartments, office space, and manufacturing, so that would be done in the future and that will be done in Montreal.

Q3/3: What are you looking forward to in #StarCitizen?

3. Most excited about is resource management, what that means is the player has control of items in the ship and how that functions and how that flows throughout the ship as well as the environment. So I think that this will really bring our environment and ships to life so you can go in sabotage, go in an repair. Once that gets put into SC I think that will be a game changer.

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1 - Working on the Star Map? For SQ42???? Aren't there like 3 systems max in SQ42?

2 - More tools being worked on! This time procedural!

3 - Talk about the future, blah, blah, dreams.txt
 

LittleAnt

L
Viajero said:
Tabarnak @LittleAnt! Even you have to admit this is just ridiculous (unless you are somehow linked to Turbulent or CIG that is). Any time now the pipelines will start ramping up and and the industrialization will accelerate incredibly!
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"to admit this is just ridiculous" ? Clearly not ridiculous. You want them to copy/paste the same station 200 times to release 100 systems ? Industrialization is not an on/off button. You improve tools constantly, step by step.

I don't really understand why Golgot wants to show with what he quoted from me. It just confirms what I said about the fact that the industrialization of system creation is on its way.

cigwatch said:
So it looks like a scripting platform that can manipulate the asset creator / game engine automatically. Indeed, this is more and more common in real-life architecture as well, not only in video games. Same type of challenges, whether architecture is virtual or real.
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Exactly. And its needed by CIG to make systems faster to keep the promise of the 100+ systems in less than (I will use the formula of this thread) 100 systems x 10 years alpha for 1 system = 1000 years.

That's absolutly not the goal of CIG but with this tool T0 :
  1. you can generate random stations/caves/outposts.
  2. Couple it with the current planet generation tool and you can create a basic system (with no specific and hand tailored assets and places) really quick.
  3. Add a basic server meshing with the current limitation to 50 players by system + an instance mechanism by system to keep this 50 players limit and you can quickly and easily get a game with 100 systems (with little value and no lore elements) like what you get in Elite Dangerous.
 
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LittleAnt

L
Viajero said:
I can also confirm that the "industrialization" of the game creation has been on its way for over 10+ years too. Any time now for anything "industrialized".
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I don't understand. You confirm that industrialization is needed for SC and it takes time ? Yes it's true.
It's also complex and can fail.
Look at the final result for the industrialization of the CDPR engine for their open world : they are completely abandoning the Red Engine and switch to UE. They failed with their engine after more than 10 years using it and improving it. Some in the ED forums says the same for the Cobra Engine of FDEV. But the Creation Engine of Bethesda is still on its way.
Will the industrialization phase of the Star Engine will succeed ? We don't know, we'll see with the systems after the initial Pyro and Nyx (certainly very largely made by hand) if the Star Engine has good tools and can support a sustained flow of creation. But I like what I see with Turbulent's latest video.
 
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GuruNot

GuruNot
Asp Explorer said:
Aaahh, but my dear Noctua flavoured Psygnosis Side Scroller - 2014 was just laying the foundation. 2016 was just concepting the blueprint of the foundation. The actual go no-go meeting didn't happen until 2017 despite whatever appearances to the contrary. As that seems at this stage to have resulted in a no-go, that propels development forward to the current day, where delivery of the product has advanced no further than the cinematic from 2012.

Early days still!
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Shadow of the Beast was a fave of mine!! Maybe Sony will buy CIG too!
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
LittleAnt said:
I don't really understand why Golgot wants to show with what he quoted from me. It just confirms what I said about the fact that the industrialization of system creation is on its way.
Click to expand...

Lol

LittleAnt said:
Perhaps you will understand what's really going on in one or 2 years.
Click to expand...

Or to give you a more serious answer:

A) During your tenure in this thread you have pointed to a range signs for an upcoming industrialization process. One which will lead to a massive uptick in content. (You literally included the UI tool as a catalyst for solar system production in those prior quotes. A UI tool....)

B) You thought this particular industrialization process was well underway in 2020, and that it would "grandly accelerate the pace of system delivery" overall.

C) You predicted the first effects of this conveyor belt would come in 2021.

And yet to date...

tumbleweed-crickets-chirping.gif


On its own it's just kinda funny. What makes it tragi-comic is that:

D) Backers have been saying stuff exactly like this for the lifetime of the project...

Something about CIG's daily discussion of dev minutia, and assured "not if but when" statements of upcoming glories, tends to have that effect apparently.

But hey. Maybe one day we'll get this ;)

Trouble-With-Tumbleweed.gif
 
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LittleAnt

L
VR Golgot said:
A) During your tenure in this thread you have pointed to a range signs for an upcoming industrialization process. One which will lead to to a massive uptick in content. (You literally included the UI tool as a catalyst for solar system production in those prior quotes. A UI tool....)
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It's still what I'm saying. There will be a massive uptick in content creation. Good API, Tools and Engine are part of a good industrialization process. And having a good UI tool is also important. I'm really happy to use Plesk or Cpanel in my everyday routine. Just by posting a screenshot of the Plesk UI you know that it can makes you save time.

VR Golgot said:
B) You thought this particular industrialization process was well underway in 2020, and that it would "grandly accelerate the pace of system delivery" overall.
Click to expand...
It's underway and CIG talked about it since long before 2020. And yes, it will greatly accelerate the pace of delivery (as expected in every industrialization process).

VR Golgot said:
C) You predicted the first effects of this conveyor belt would come in 2021.
Click to expand...
I was wrong (like everytime someone try to give a date with CIG). This does not change my thinking about industrialization and the fact that it's on its way with CIG and Turbulent. The last video of Turbulent is just a proof of it. Don't you think the tool presented by Turbulent will save a lot of time while creating a system ?

VR Golgot said:
D) Backers have been saying stuff exactly like this for the lifetime of the project...
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Exact. Because more than 5-7 years to do powerful tools/engine for a MMO is not abnormal when you start from zero. CIG is slow, and it takes even longer but the project is also more complex than a lot of MMO of the market.
If I take Plesk as example, the tool has been around for 20 years and evolves every year. But I didn't use it until 2010 because it only wasted my time before that date. 10 years of development before having something useful for me and something I can use in the industrialization process of my company...
 

VR Mr Teatime

VR Mr Teatime
LittleAnt said:
Note : before someone claim "Never been done before" here, yes, it exists in other games/engines.
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Indeed - even their own.

I seem to recall even CryEngine 3 had modular building creation functions back in 2012/2013 e.g. where you could create say 4 or 5 different floor types for a building and then script how many and what type got assembled into the final asset(s) - there used to be YT videos showing all this back in the day.

The trick of course was making sure the modular components could be connected properly when assembled (those pesky doors and elevators) and other issues CE3 suffered from (mostly performance related).

The CE3 SDK also had other "procedural" tools like terrain creation, asset placement on terrain and texturing to speed up development - I guess these must have fallen down the back of the sofa, only to be rediscovered years later...
 

Skizomeuh

Skizomeuh
LittleAnt said:
Exact. Because more than 5-7 years to do powerful tools/engine for a MMO is not abnormal when you start from zero. CIG is slow, and it takes even longer but the project is also more complex than a lot of MMO of the market.
If I take Plesk as example, the tool has been around for 20 years and evolves every year. But I didn't use it until 2010 because it only wasted my time before that date. 10 years of development before having something useful for me and something I can use in the industrialization process of my company...
Click to expand...
That takes us back to cart-before-horse way to work at CIG. More precisely, horse has yet to be invented but the cart is already sinking in a bathtub and CIG is bragging about crossing the pacific ocean without getting wet.
 

LittleAnt

L
VR Mr Teatime said:
fallen down the back of the sofa, only to be rediscovered years later...
Click to expand...
Yes, but CIG/Turbulent discovered also Houdini behind the sofa and thought is was a better choice for the industrialization of 100+ systems :sneaky:
What a strange choice for a bunch of incompetent developers!

Skizomeuh said:
That takes us back to cart-before-horse way to work at CIG. More precisely, horse has yet to be invented but the cart is already sinking in a bathtub and CIG is bragging about crossing the pacific ocean without getting wet.
Click to expand...
Good image, but for now I mainly see a tool able to generate a full station/cave with a bunch of clicks. You know, exactly the sort of tool you need to keep up on your promise to deliver 100+ systems (y)

I know it's hard for you to see tangible progress. It must have been hard enough for you to see the refueling coming... :LOL:
 
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Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
LittleAnt said:
It's still what I'm saying. There will be a massive uptick in content creation. Good API, Tools and Engine are part of a good industrialization process. And having a good UI tool is also important. I'm really happy to use Plesk or Cpanel in my everyday routine. Just by posting a screenshot of the Plesk UI you know that it can makes you save time.


It's underway and CIG talked about it since long before 2020. And yes, it will greatly accelerate the pace of delivery (as expected in every industrialization process).


I was wrong (like everytime someone try to give a date with CIG). This does not change my thinking about industrialization and the fact that it's on its way with CIG and Turbulent. The last video of Turbulent is just a proof of it. Don't you think the tool presented by Turbulent will save a lot of time while creating a system ?


Exact. Because more than 5-7 years to do powerful tools/engine for a MMO is not abnormal when you start from zero. CIG is slow, and it takes even longer but the project is also more complex than a lot of MMO of the market.
If I take Plesk as example, the tool has been around for 20 years and evolves every year. But I didn't use it until 2010 because it only wasted my time before that date. 10 years of development before having something useful for me and something I can use in the industrialization process of my company...
Click to expand...
Pollocks. The "building tools" excuse is so lame because it's been overused for a decade now.
 

Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
My Dear LittleAnt - do you recall the "base building" video, the one they turned into a Space Lobster resort?

That was their showcase for Procedural Generation, and how they could really ramp up content production so that areas would take "hours, not weeks" to deliver. It was a perfect demonstration of how CI-G didn't even grasp the concept of procedural generation - much less have even a prototype of a working implementation.
 
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