Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

CmdrKull

C
Surefoot said:
Usually you'll have temporary or unfinished textures at that point, as the graphics team will have made progress too. But yeah in a nutshell, that's how it goes. Placeholder assets until the core engine is strong enough to build upon.
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Or at least until the mechanics reach a level of completion (even just completion of design) that models and textures won’t need radical redesigns or be scrapped entirely when the back of the napkin ideas don’t pan out.

CIG hired some great artists and modelers, the stuff often looks amazing. What happens when you’re handed a completed model with feature-uses that haven’t been coded yet is that you code the feature for that model, instead of in a more generic and reusable way. Then you get another model where things are different and you can’t reuse the code because it needs to trigger more animations or with different timings but you try to change it just enough to make it work, and now you’ve got your first bugs.

That’s what would happen in a normal game with backwards design stages. SC seems to have deeper issues, but I’ve honestly played it so little that I couldn’t say. It’s never fun when I try to play it, I get more entertainment value from this thread than I do the game.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Kaocraft said:
Agreed, except these likely aren't the kinds of things that really pre-empt one another anyway. It seems extremely unlikely that NOT working on nice liquid physics or whatever would in any way free up the type of talent and resources that would/should go to a robust location saving system.

We've seen these types of arguments around Elite for years - people complain that they are wasting all their time/resources/whatever making skins for the ARX store "instead of" oh for instance GIVING US MULTIPLE SAVEGAME SLOTS (which yes btw was promised once upon a time). As far as I'm concerned, the critiques of what's missing/broken/reneged are valid in themselves, regardless of what other cool stuff is being successfully added to the game. When outstanding issues are used as arguments for why an already existing Good Thing is in fact Bad Actually because it must have come at the expense of fixing a missing/broken/reneged Thing; well I don't find that convincing at all. And coming from people in these forums it rings especially hollow.

I think sometimes you can make inferences about which areas of a developer's efforts have come at the expense of which other areas, especially if we're talking about broad design directives, but for the most part these types of comparisons strike me as bad faith rhetorical slight of hand.

Otherwise if we take this to its logical conclusion the game (and every game) should still be in greybox or wireframe until every play mechanic and networking issue is working 100% flawlessly.
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Usually in online gamesyou dont need save slots. When you fail some mission you usually can recover making corpse run or start just over. Some games struggle with the concept of not wasting time, though. I'm looking at ED e.g. and station corridor walking sim Star Citisn't e.g.
 

Surefoot

S
CmdrKull said:
That’s what would happen in a normal game with backwards design stages. SC seems to have deeper issues, but I’ve honestly played it so little that I couldn’t say.
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Yeah the core engine is absolutely not suited to the task. It's bursting at the seams, from even the very small scope of what we have currently. So they added layers of dirty code on top of it. Of course it's a runaway bug proliferation issue at that point and that's what we are witnessing from patch to patch.

CmdrKull said:
It’s never fun when I try to play it, I get more entertainment value from this thread than I do the game.
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As do quite a few denizens from this thread - also we have some quality people from time to time, like a (now ex-)CiG employee, and formerly FDEV employee too who worked on the 3D engine, a youtuber author of a nice series ("Sunk Cost Galaxy") and even the Dark Sith lord himself at some point graced us with his own brand of nonsense.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
WhiteHaulerMan said:
required to fix spam out oxygen and other essential supplies.
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kq4q5h7f-1498751693.jpg
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
LittleAnt said:
That's the sort of hate message we love here. 90 days tops !
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I'd suggest that @Navigare Necesse Est's comments are reasonably accurate. I can see the validity (and honesty) in them even from the standpoint of being a long term backer of the project...doesn't stop me from enjoying SC of course, but then I'm willing to overlook or work through it's obvious faults and failings to a greater degree than some ....that's almost a pre-requisite if you want to survive as a backer of this decade long exercise in game development by video.

I'm more than happy criticising Ci¬G...or more accurately, their deeply repulsive management and marketing structure...but I enjoy what I enjoy, and simply for what star citizen is...not for what it might or more probably, won't ever be...you can enjoy star citizen as much as you like and no-one can take that away just by disagreeing with you. :)
 
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Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Navigare Necesse Est said:
Usually in online gamesyou dont need save slots. When you fail some mission you usually can recover making corpse run or start just over. Some games struggle with the concept of not wasting time, though. I'm looking at ED e.g. and station corridor walking sim Star Citisn't e.g.
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In most MMOs I’ve ever played, you’re give multiple character slots, for various reasons, which range from “mules and utility” characters to “alternate skill set” characters, through to “villains and their faces”. It’s pretty standard, given how many players enjoy experimenting.
 

ECity

ECity
LittleAnt on Jan 27, 2021
Vulkan late this year.
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CIG on April 20, 2022
Here are more Gen12 Updates:
...
Major work on the transparent geometry has been started. This is the last big milestone we have to finish. I don't expect this to be ready for 3.18 but hopefully for 3.19. My worst case estimate would be 3.20.

...after Gen12 there are still tons of other improvements planned which will give us even more performance. And of course Vulkan!
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LittleAnt

L
VR Golgot said:
Vulkan coming 🤘
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Yeah !
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...progress-and-performance-improvements-in-3-1/
Silvan-CIG@Silvan-CIG

Gen12 Progress and Performance Improvements in 3.17​

Today at 21:07
Hey everyone!

It's time for another update on Gen12 as a lot of exciting things has been happening behind the scenes and we've been hearing a lot of voices in the community about the recent performance improvements.
I'm proud to announce that our first big milestone has been reached with Gen12 in 3.17!
This means all our opaque static geometry, which are brushes and all objects scattered on planets+asteroids, now run through Gen12 which more than doubles the RenderThread (RT) performance for these kind of objects.
Before you freak out, hold your breath as this right now actually means nothing in terms of getting more FPS.
Internal measurements showed that we are rarely CPU bound by the RenderThread.
Ultimately this means that a faster RenderThread doesn't change the overall framerate at all.
However, Gen12 pretty much makes it impossible to be limited by the RenderThread ever again,
which means every single bit of performance improvements on the MainThread (MT) will be seen directly on your FPS.
Something which a lot of you already have observed in our latest 3.17 PTU Patch.

The performance improvements you're seeing are from @ChristopherBolte who did some major improvements
in the Entity Centric (ECUS) System, Zone Host Updates and a lot of other stuff improving the MT performance greatly.

Here are more Gen12 Updates:
- Internally all Renderproxies like ships, characters and Planets are already going through the Gen12 Pipeline. They didn't make it for 3.17, but will be ready for the next big patch.
I've heard a lot of ships on screen tend to be heavy on the RT, so ship meetups and the like might get big benefits (would appreciate if someone can test this then!)
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  • We're about to turn on Gen12 for Cubemaps+RTTs as well which let's us kill a lot of legacy code!
  • Some stuff still needs to be ported like all the Planet atmosphere passes, GPUSkinning and GasCloud rendering, which will all be started soon.
  • Major work on the transparent geometry has been started. This is the last big milestone we have to finish.

So all in all Gen12 is looking really promising right now. RT performance is more than twice as good and we're almost done with everything.
As explained in my previous post (https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...rrent-and-projected-cpu-core-and-thread-count) after Gen12 there are still tons of other improvements planned which will give us even more performance. And of course Vulkan!

One more thing: Due to the mixed rendering of legacy+Gen12 the engine right now has to go through both rendering codes which actually decreases the MainThread performance slightly.
Once the transparent geometry is ported, we no longer have to do that and we will see the full potential of Gen12. Until then, stay tuned and fly safe!

See you in the verse~
Silvan
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