Yes it would have to be for each Power to work I think. I agree it would help. In the current situation, I guess it would mean the FRC leadership could at least see that CMDRs "Mystery Person 1" and "Mystery Person 2" were doing the forting. Assuming thought that the 5C operatives are clever enough to be doing the forting with accounts that can't be obviously traced back to Hudson's rival powers, we won't have everything fixed. But it might help; it would certainly help the detective work if it was suspected that one of these people was using a bot.
Powerplay A word on 5c, and the state of Powerplay
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You could just change how it all works and actually sort out the root problem though.
For example, removing CC and control bubbles- if each system has no value other than it being one more (and simply count up who has most to 'win') 5C can't damage you via expansion. Attacks should be local too (i.e. no turmoil orders, if you want system X dropped you attack System X) so any system in turmoil drops directly (so you can't box someone in by fortifying).
These are simple (in concept at least) but would in theory make 5C difficult to impossible.
For example, removing CC and control bubbles- if each system has no value other than it being one more (and simply count up who has most to 'win') 5C can't damage you via expansion. Attacks should be local too (i.e. no turmoil orders, if you want system X dropped you attack System X) so any system in turmoil drops directly (so you can't box someone in by fortifying).
These are simple (in concept at least) but would in theory make 5C difficult to impossible.
We do take them into account. I've explained several times, in great detail, and in this very thread, why we feel confident in saying that 5c is involved in fortifying Hudson.
You're conflating different expansions that occurred in different contexts... The last time you accused us of botting, which was only a few months ago, I vouched that every merit put into those expansions was coordinated by us and earned legitimately. We've gone over this several times with you, but I can do so again if you wish - although this thread is likely not the right place to do so.
I agree.
Oh I agree,
All engineering needs (IMHO) is ;
- nerfing the powerplant so that people have to make decisions about their ships
- More NPC pirate attacks in mid, low security and populated Anarchy systems
- A separate notoriety for killing players only
- A way to see where player killers (see above point) are in the galaxy map (except if they're in anarchy systems) so other players can either avoid them or bounty hunt them.
- Stolen Items pay a lot better on the black market.
At that point, we're not talking fix, we're talking fundamental redesign...
As a entirely self interested module shopper I try and be a good citizen and check the relevent discord or post to see where I should be moving PP magic to and from but I'm fairly sure that most wouldn't put that effort in. The combat bond bonuses that Hudson, Arissa and Antal offer also compound the problem as there are plenty, particularly AX pilots, doubling up their cash using this at the moment.
When I look, a really good highlight would be "module shoppers, go here, do this". It should be the first line in all your instructions. I'm lazy, I don't care about your PP, I just want my module/credits and I'm willing to push in the right direction.
I've briefly looked, and the Hudson reddit and discord is bad for this. The Reddit is impenetrable with no current clear message and the discord has weird screenshot sign-up requirements. As a lazy 5c CMDR I'm now just going to do what I fancy. I'm not overly surprised Hudson has a random 5c problem.
When I look, a really good highlight would be "module shoppers, go here, do this". It should be the first line in all your instructions. I'm lazy, I don't care about your PP, I just want my module/credits and I'm willing to push in the right direction.
I've briefly looked, and the Hudson reddit and discord is bad for this. The Reddit is impenetrable with no current clear message and the discord has weird screenshot sign-up requirements. As a lazy 5c CMDR I'm now just going to do what I fancy. I'm not overly surprised Hudson has a random 5c problem.
Not sure which posts you're referring to, but there's such a high amount of -flooding taking place in this thread, that it would probably be best to check the posts for their content, additionally to scanning them for meany words.
The OP and others seem to have enough proof of how the 5C is happening and then there are a few cmdrs, of the powers that base their strategy on knowing 5C's action in advance, just watering the discussion at every occasion, derailing it with whataboutisms and other discussion-damaging tactics. I'm sure we all got well acquainted with these methods through the pandemic and I'm also sure you're aware of how poisoning they are for a discussion.
I hope that's what you mean by "petty arguments" because for now it seems like there's no distinction taking place, other than the one about slurs.
People will do what they fancy, I agree. They will fort systems close to HQ to 500% and prepare the closest preparable system. That's what randos do, happens to most powers every week.
In my opinion, forting 35 systems in a given week, some of them distant and with only a planetary outpost 20k Ls away from the star, isn't a typical thing randos fancy to do. If this happens precisely the week a big attack is happening and it provokes that some systems the empire wants Hudson to lose end up in turmoil, I think everyone will agree it's somewhat suspicious.
FWIW as an Alliance player and therefore technically neutral, I can confirm a lot of what the Imperials are saying regarding their op. An op which I have inspected quite thoroughly and find fair and reasonable.
Some targets are public, and open, and to be undermined straight away.
Some are not.
The cries from Hudson and Winters for everyone to "stop while we figure this out" are patently ridiculous. When you call the thunder, the Hurricane does not have to wait. It's not as if the Federation has never taken advantage of bugs, like, you know, a UI fault last October...
Lastly. As someone who has played the BGS a few years now... I've witnessed what I refer to as "The Fed Rando Brigade". It is commonly accepted, that the Federation has the largest amounts of lowest common denominator players, that have picked the faction because it's the federation, and will blindly do things. These include Wars, AX (because rank grinders) and yeah, powerplay.
Some targets are public, and open, and to be undermined straight away.
Some are not.
The cries from Hudson and Winters for everyone to "stop while we figure this out" are patently ridiculous. When you call the thunder, the Hurricane does not have to wait. It's not as if the Federation has never taken advantage of bugs, like, you know, a UI fault last October...
Lastly. As someone who has played the BGS a few years now... I've witnessed what I refer to as "The Fed Rando Brigade". It is commonly accepted, that the Federation has the largest amounts of lowest common denominator players, that have picked the faction because it's the federation, and will blindly do things. These include Wars, AX (because rank grinders) and yeah, powerplay.
I'm sorry but Mahon isn't neutral in all this situation. You guys are, using your words, "taking vengeance for October".
Also, no one has asked you to stop UMing Hudson, that's a legit thing to do. The main point of the original post is to denounce the use of 5C tactics. I mean, it's right there in the post title.
Half right. Well, not quite half. 30%?
The use of the word technically was important here.
Various Alliance and neutral squadrons and personnel including and especially myself are involved. But not the Alliance at large.
We are involved because we are tired of the bravo sierra from the Feds to be honest. I am not usually a power player. I care little for it usually. When, however given the opportunity to stick it to the Feds, yeah i jumped, leapt and god damn cartwheeled at the chance. So Mahon is mostly Neutral.
I might not be.
This does however mean that I do get to see the Imperial strategy. It does not rely on 5C.
What you got wrong though, is when you said that no-one has asked us to stop UMing.
Various winters pilots in system chat did say much the same as you are aware from that conversation. "Please stop enabling 5C" I believe. I regret not taking a screenshot.
My response, for the record was "I don't care about 5C, we just want vengeance for october". I later expanded on this pointing out the alternative, what we just stop while you cry foul? I also suggested that Winters take advantage of Hudson being basically done, and take point of the Federation at large. Maybe an RP thing, but honestly a Liberal federation would be refreshing.
This is exactly what I meant in my answer to Ozric.
If this person has inspected the op thoroughly he/she wouldn't claim the Alliance to have a neutral position on this.
This reality defying statement is only followed by attempts to turn around the arguments of other posters.
I'm therefore attacking the argument (not the poster) by saying what it is: flooding the zone with s***.
Well yes, and no.
You are keeping the vast majority of the design, just dropping the parts which are tied to CC (which is where the problem really is).
Of course its more work, but its sorting out the core problem- I mean, if FD did do the breakdown of who did what, what does that actually change, materially?
Well, I have no way to know what someone told you in syschat. In any case that's not the official stance of Hudson leadership, as far as I know.
As I said, the issue here isn't the UM but the 5C. Attacking other powers by fair means isn't a problem, in fact I believe it's good for powerplay, the game would feel stagnant otherwise. That's what we did in October and there was no 5C involved at the time, your leadership can confirm if you want to ask them.
"Well, I have no way to know what someone told you in syschat"
Yet interestingly, you were able to quote what I said there.
You didn't use 5C. That is known.
You did however take advantage of an introduced bug where held merits were invisible.
Which is probably worse, in the whole sporting vs not sporting spectrum.
Honestly doesn't matter, it just gives me an excuse to undermine systems.
Yet another whataboutism, nothing constructive to get out of there.
I suggest discussing the topic of the thread, instead of trying to derail into who is (not) responsible for 5C. People already know that, despite what's being posted here.
A short statement from FDev about their intentions of touching powerplay ever again could make these tedious struggles to keep the discussion on topic end quickly and easily.
Maybe that's what it needs though. Its original design was about allowing player agency to build the powers as they stand today, and that's been done now for quite some time.
All you guys seem to be doing s making each other salty, even if you're not directly involved as the game allows others to do it.
To solve the problem, you need to remove the means to do 5C.
Minor tweaks won't make it any more interesting so the numbers interested it won't improve either.
So, a re-design would make the most sense... and they could do an awful lot with it.
I saw a screenshot showing what you said, but I obviously didn't see all the conversation. Anyhow, I'm not part of Hudson leadership but I'm pretty sure they haven't asked anyone to stop UMing.
The held merits thing comes and goes, a patch fixes it and a few months later another patch breaks it again. It's been happening for years, and this hasn't stopped powers from UMing and sniping. Imperials have held merits until tick while this thing was bugged many times as well. It is what it is, we play the game we have, not the game it should be.
Isn't the point of the thread for the Federation powers to complain that they are losing at PP & suggesting that other commanders are using tactics/mechanics that do not break the ToS? There is no cheating or exploitation of a UI bug going on here.
Hilarious! thank you for an actual laugh out loud!
"We play the game we have, not the game it should be"
Clearly you are not doing that.
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