Let's play: Reverse animal roster

yoav_r

yoav_r
We finally have more habitat animals in DLCs than in the base game, with 53 dlc animals.

This is what the "reverse roster" would look like:

1655847835171.png


How would you like the game if this was the base roster?

How would you arrange the first few dlcs?

Would you keep all base game animals through DLCs, or let some of them go in this iteration?

Let's play!
 

NachoB

NachoB
For a base roster i think it lacks a lot of key species like elephants, lions, tigers, apes, etc

But i think some animals from the DLCs should've been included in the base game from the start like the jaguar, the penguin, the kangaroo, capybara, sea lion, thomson's gazelle and the white rhinoceros.

And some animals included in the base game should've been released with DLCs or not added at all since they are not essential imo: himalayan bear, springbok, nyala (i love it but as a base animal is just too specific and not that common in zoos as other options), aldabra tortoise, black wildebeest (should've been the blue one).

Also the base game and all the DLCs need more birds (and will never be tired of bringing that up) :)
 

abigenius

abigenius
I think that this it's funny because in the original roster, the most of the animals was from Africa but now in this "reverse roster" (and the actually roster) Asia is the continent with more animals, if the game would have been of this way, most of the Africa animals
Wouldn't be in the game
 

biggest_dreamer

biggest_dreamer
It certainly feels like a worse base game roster, even if it would be more interesting. I don’t think the presence of all of the base game’s most glaring omissions (polar bear, penguin, pinnipeds, meerkat, African rhino, leopard/jaguar) even begins to excuse the absence of lions, tigers, elephants, giraffes, great apes, zebras, etc. (although amusingly enough ZT3 thought they could get away without those last two)

Fun thought exercise though.
 

Fabian

Fabian
With such a line-up, the first DLC would probably be a Safari Pack to check off the big ticket animals (African Elephant, Giraffe, Zebra, Lion), and even then most essential African zoo animals would still be missing, not to mention the primates/apes and bears, canines, felines etc.

So if based on your idea we would assume that the building themes from the base game would be missing, that would give us the following scenery packs: a Safari Pack with the African theme; an East Asia Pack with the East Asian theme (probably the pandas, snow leopard, jap. macaque), an India Pack with the Indian theme (rhino, elephant, peafowl, tiger, gharial), a Classic Pack (maybe with some zoo essentials like hippo, hyena, crocodile, brown bear etc.), a generic Planet Zoo Pack and the New World Pack with some of the North American animals (grizzly, bison, pronghorn, wolf).

I love almost all the animals we got in the DLCs, but this base game roster would be lacking too many of the core essential zoo species.

To answer your final question, the ones I wouldn't include in the game anymore are:
  • Nyala (as much as I like this animal, there are much better antelope species for a base game roster: I would probably choose the Greater Kudu or the Addax here)
  • Springbok (maybe a dik-dik for an out-of-left-field choice here that only few would have expected?)
  • Japanese Macaque (nothing against this animal, I just feel like it would fit perfectly for an Asia DLC, and this slot could give as a more 'generic' primate species that can be used instead, such as the Lion-tailed Macaque or a langur species)
  • Pronghorn (I adore this animal, but it would be quite perfect for the NA Animal Pack that had plenty of other high-profile inclusions after all; maybe include the Moose in the base game instead)
  • plus some exchanges: West African Lion -> Southern Lion; Bengal Tiger -> Sumatran Tiger; Himalayan Brown Bear -> Eurasian Brown Bear; Timber Wolf -> Eurasian Wolf; Black Wildebeest -> Blue Wildebeest; Aldabra Giant Tortoise -> African Spurred Tortoise

But yeah... the first four DLCs would probably have to be Africa-related to catch up on the continent's under-representation. 😁
 

yoav_r

yoav_r
biggest_dreamer said:
It certainly feels like a worse base game roster, even if it would be more interesting. I don’t think the presence of all of the base game’s most glaring omissions (polar bear, penguin, pinnipeds, meerkat, African rhino, leopard/jaguar) even begins to excuse the absence of lions, tigers, elephants, giraffes, great apes, zebras, etc. (although amusingly enough ZT3 thought they could get away without those last two)

Fun thought exercise though.
Click to expand...
I think if it included a giraffe/elephant and a zebra, they could get away with ommiting all the rest and adding them via dlcs.
 

jcp011c

jcp011c
I think this is a neat exercise. Though I do think that the game would not have been successful. They may be the standard choices, but I do think that there's an expectation that zoo simulators should have at least one of each: Lion, Giraffe, Elephant, Tiger, Rhino, Hippo, Gorilla, Chimapanzee, Zebra, and Giant Panda. These are your basic staple zoo animals that really should be present from launch. To be honest, I absolutely love the DLC animals, but I don't know if I would have played with just the DLC animals from the get go, at least not right away. I would have thought the line up was really weird choices. And that doesn't even begin to cover the second-tier staples like the Timber Wolf, Grizzly, Ostrich...etc.

I think aside from my own personal "meh" of too many antelopes, and the near exclusion of South America and Australia, Frontier picked a really strong lineup for the base game, and even threw a few surprises in there - example: I never would have thought the Aardvark would have been a choice for a basegame animal, but I'm so glad it was.

@biggest_dreamer - ZT3 thought they could get away with not including the Giant Panda, which is my head is why the game was a failure.

That said, I'd probably have done my first year like this; or rather the first four DLC (if you wanted to take that as the Arctic-Aquatic timeline that's fine, or just four title within 2020 is fine too.

African Safari: Like other mention, getting some staples in the game. You don't get more "staple" than Lions, Elephants, Giraffes and Chimpanzees

The Wonders of Asia - Giant Panda, Bengal Tiger, Japanese Macaque, Peafowl - some common zoo game animals (subbing the more common Orangutan for the Macaque, and not giving us two felines in one pack, or another elephant straight away.)

The New World - Timber Wolf, Grizzly, American Bison, Pronghorn. I know that's the four we got in the base game, but honestly three of those four are pretty much second tier zoo game staples as well, the Pronghorn being the exception.

Africa Revisited- Sorry, but there's just too many iconic African animals to not make the continent an absolute priority and give it two packs right away. - Gorilla, Zebra, Hippo, and either Warthog/Ostrich/Cheetah.

With that....I think you'd have your very very basic zoo game necessities covered. As obviously choices they would be of course. Which....that's why they were picked for the base game.
 

sockeyejo

sockeyejo
That's fascinating. I looked at the map and thought "something's wrong" and then realised that Africa's empty. I don't know if growing up on David Attenborough's numerous documentaries is to blame or what but a world without the big African names seems eerily empty. And if that's not the conservation message we all need to take home, I don't know what is.
 

KönigDerKaffeebohnen

K
Tbh, while this roster would be much more ballanced, i think that frontier made a good decision over concentrating on africa in the basegame.
Not only because this game originally was planet safari and had a south african focus (which is to blame for the hyper fixation on even quite rare south african antelopes like the black over the blue wilderbeast, the nyala and also why the springbock us in the game, eventhough its also a common zoo animal), but also because it let the game have a green area right from the start if we remember the list of areas that need expansions.
This allowed for versatile african sections from the start, while also giving us some other animals from other continents that either are essentials (bears, tigers, wolfes), "easy" to make (asian elephant, second tortoise, more bears) or just random choices they liked (Bairds Tapir, Japanese Macaque, Pronghorn).
Im also quite sure that many not african animals started out as african ones, like the indian rhino, salt water crocodile, snow leopard, etc to honestly very successfully establish animals outside of africa.
And i doubt that i have to explain to anyone that it was a great roster to expand from.

Now to what i would change:

First, all restricting subspecies go away!

West African Lion -> African/Southern Lion
Himalayan Brown Bear -> Eurasian Brown Bear
Formosan Black Bear -> Asiatic Black Bear
Bengal Tiger -> Sumatran Tiger

I would actually add one Clone Animal by splitting the wolf into a Eurasian one and an North American one, my preference being the critically endangerd hot climate red wolf of the south, a change i would still like to see. Aniversery animal maybe?

For the Cuts, id take out:

- Nothing! I do believe that there were no bad animal inclusions in the basegame, just bad subspecies.
All animals are allowed to stay :)

But if i had to cut one and replace, it would be the thomsons gazelle for being to boring for the deluxe edition.
My replacement would be the emu, giving us australias most common zoo animal using the ostrich rig.
This way, both Australia and South America would start out with 2 Animals, not great but it would help australia to keep up a little more, as now with unchanged dlc only a wallaby is truly missing.
Also the chainsaw bird is just fun amd much more worthy of the deluxe addition then the boring gazelle.
 

Tatanosaure

Tatanosaure
It is actually making me change my mind about the main roster.
Back to 2019, I was very sad for the roster thinking there were relatively too much african animals compared to other continents. In fact comparatively way less animals from Africa were needed to have a nice zoo animals representation. I was also thinking some key animals were missing.

But regarding this map, the dlcs brought very good representation to most of the continents (NA, Asia, Europe, Africa) that would just need few additions. Some continents are still lacking. But props to Frontier for the additions (the strategy was made this one for economical reason ^^) we now have a decent roster.
But the dlc roster shows as everybody above already said it that such roster wouldn't be attractive for a base game ^^
 

DarthQuell

DarthQuell
I would leave the base roster as it is, but tweak some choices:

West African lion - Southern lion
Himalayan brown bear - Eurasian brown bear
Formosan black bear - Asian black bear
Gray wolf - Northwestern wolf
Pronghorn antelope - Pronghorn (they aren't antelopes, after all)
Bactrian camel - Dromedary camel
Bengal tiger - Malayan tiger

I mean, I was perfectly fine otherwise with the base game roster
 

avietar

avietar
What a cool idea!

I think for a starting roster, it's not bad at all actually. There are representatives of every animal group. While they may not represent the most popular quintessential zoo animals, I think that's for the better, as it allows a ton more interest in DLCs.

For the DLCs, I'm keeping the same formats Frontier uses. I will include as many base game animals I think should be in game, but also add some animals to fill out the packs. Themes will vary. OK, let's go!

Autumn 2019, DLC 1: Safari animal pack
The first most glaring omission from the game is the lack of Africa representation. So the first DLC will immediately provide some crucial savannah animals.
1. African lion
2. Plains zebra
3. African buffalo
4. Reticulated giraffe
5. African elephant
6. Common ostrich
7. Spotted hyena
+1

Spring 2020, DLC 2: Primate animal pack
This will bring in the apes, monkeys, and lemurs, which people will undoubtedly look very very much forward to. I left out the Bonobo, as I think it's way too similar to the chimpanzee, and added a Howler monkey for more South America representation. No exhibit animal, because this is a primate pack.
1. Western lowland gorilla
2. Western chimpanzee
3. Mandrill
4. Japanese macaque
5. Bornean orangutan
6. Ring-tailed lemur
7. Red ruffed lemur
8. Howler monkey

Summer 2020, DLC 3: North America pack
Introducing the bison, grizzly bear, and pronghorn, and I replaced the timber wolf with the coyote.
1. American bison
2. Grizzly bear
3. Pronghorn
4. Coyote
+1

Autumn 2020, DLC 4: India animal pack
Introducing the Indian animals, minus the Bengal tiger.
1. Indian elephant
2. Indian rhinoceros
3. Indian peafowl
4. Gharial
5. Blackbuck
6. Nilgai
7. Indian crested porcupine
+1

Birthday: Black & white ruffed lemur.

Winter 2020, DLC 5: East Asia pack
Introducing the pandas and pangolin, and adding the tufted deer.
1. Giant panda
2. Red panda
3. Chinese pangolin
4. Tufted deer
+1

Spring 2021, DLC 6: South America animal pack
Introducing the Galapagos tortoise and baird's tapir, along with many other animals because South America needs more fleshing out.
1. Maned wolf
2. Galapagos giant tortoise
3. Patagonian mara
4. Spectacled bear
5. Nine-banded armadillo
6. Collared peccary
7. Baird's tapir
+1

Summer 2021, DLC 7: Middle East pack
Introducing the dromedary (replacing Bactrian camel), and a few other Middle Eastern animals, a region that has 0 representation right now.
1. Dromedary
2. Caracal
3. Striped hyena
4. Hamadryas baboon
+1

Autumn 2021, DLC 8: Eurasia animal pack
Introducing the Siberian tiger and the Eurasian wolf (replacing the timber wolf, now both North America and Eurasia have a wolf species). Adding more Eurasian animals.
1. Eurasian wolf
2. Siberian tiger
3. Red deer
4. Wild boar
5. Red fox
6. Saiga
7. Wolverine
+1

Birthday: Sumatran tiger

Winter 2021, DLC 9: Himalaya pack
Introducing the snow leopard and Asiatic black bear, adding the takin and monal. The Asiatic black bear replaces the Formosan black bear & Himalayan brown bear.
1. Snow leopard
2. Asiatic black bear
3. Takin
4. Himalayan monal
+1

Spring 2022, DLC 10: Wetlands animal pack
Introducing the saltwater croc, flamingo, hippo, nile monitor. Adding the pelican, crane, and marsh deer.
1. Saltwater crocodile
2. Greater flamingo
3. Hippopotamus
4. Nile monitor
5. Australian pelican
6. Grey crowned crane
7. Marsh deer
+1

Summer 2022, DLC 11: African hooved animal pack
Introducing the bongo, sable antelope, gemsbok, okapi, and warthog. Adding the kudu (replacing nyala), blue wildebeest (replacing black wildebeest), and black rhino. No exhibit animal because these are all hooved animals.
1. Bongo
2. Greater kudu
3. Sable antelope
4. Gemsbok
5. Okapi
6. Common warthog
7. Blue wildebeest
8. Black rhinoceros

Still missing at this point:
  • Cheetah
  • Aardvark
  • African wild dog
  • Aldabra giant tortoise

I think this is respectable. The cheetah would probably lead the META wishlist at this point 😃
 
Last edited:

yoav_r

yoav_r
avietar said:
What a cool idea!

I think for a starting roster, it's not bad at all actually. There are representatives of every animal group. While they may not represent the most popular quintessential zoo animals, I think that's for the better, as it allows a ton more interest in DLCs.

For the DLCs, I'm keeping the same formats Frontier uses. I will include as many base game animals I think should be in game, but also add some animals to fill out the packs. Themes will vary. OK, let's go!

Autumn 2019, DLC 1: Safari animal pack
The first most glaring omission from the game is the lack of Africa representation. So the first DLC will immediately provide some crucial savannah animals.
1. African lion
2. Plains zebra
3. African buffalo
4. Reticulated giraffe
5. African elephant
6. Common ostrich
7. Spotted hyena
+1

Spring 2020, DLC 2: Primate animal pack
This will bring in the apes, monkeys, and lemurs, which people will undoubtedly look very very much forward to. I left out the Bonobo, as I think it's way too similar to the chimpanzee, and added a Howler monkey for more South America representation. No exhibit animal, because this is a primate pack.
1. Western lowland gorilla
2. Western chimpanzee
3. Mandrill
4. Japanese macaque
5. Bornean orangutan
6. Ring-tailed lemur
7. Red ruffed lemur
8. Howler monkey

Summer 2020, DLC 3: North America pack
Introducing the bison, grizzly bear, and pronghorn, and I replaced the timber wolf with the coyote.
1. American bison
2. Grizzly bear
3. Pronghorn
4. Coyote
+1

Autumn 2020, DLC 4: India animal pack
Introducing the Indian animals, minus the Bengal tiger.
1. Indian elephant
2. Indian rhinoceros
3. Indian peafowl
4. Gharial
5. Blackbuck
6. Nilgai
7. Indian crested porcupine
+1

Birthday: Black & white ruffed lemur.

Winter 2020, DLC 5: East Asia pack
Introducing the pandas and pangolin, and adding the tufted deer.
1. Giant panda
2. Red panda
3. Chinese pangolin
4. Tufted deer
+1

Spring 2021, DLC 6: South America animal pack
Introducing the Galapagos tortoise and baird's tapir, along with many other animals because South America needs more fleshing out.
1. Maned wolf
2. Galapagos giant tortoise
3. Patagonian mara
4. Spectacled bear
5. Nine-banded armadillo
6. Collared peccary
7. Baird's tapir
+1

Summer 2021, DLC 7: Middle East pack
Introducing the dromedary (replacing Bactrian camel), and a few other Middle Eastern animals, a region that has 0 representation right now.
1. Dromedary
2. Caracal
3. Striped hyena
4. Hamadryas baboon
+1

Autumn 2021, DLC 8: Eurasia animal pack
Introducing the Siberian tiger and the Eurasian wolf (replacing the timber wolf, now both North America and Eurasia have a wolf species). Adding more Eurasian animals.
1. Eurasian wolf
2. Siberian tiger
3. Red deer
4. Wild boar
5. Red fox
6. Saiga
7. Wolverine
+1

Birthday: Sumatran tiger

Winter 2021, DLC 9: Himalaya pack
Introducing the snow leopard and Asiatic black bear, adding the takin and monal. The Asiatic black bear replaces the Formosan black bear & Himalayan brown bear.
1. Snow leopard
2. Asiatic black bear
3. Takin
4. Himalayan monal
+1

Spring 2022, DLC 10: Wetlands animal pack
1. Saltwater crocodile
2. Greater flamingo
3. Hippopotamus
4. Nile monitor
5. Australian pelican
6. Grey crowned crane
7. Marsh deer
+1

Summer 2022, DLC 11: African hooved animal pack
Introducing the bongo, sable antelope, gemsbok, okapi, and warthog. Adding the kudu (replacing nyala), blue wildebeest (replacing black wildebeest), and black rhino. No exhibit animal because these are all hooved animals.
1. Bongo
2. Greater kudu
3. Sable antelope
4. Gemsbok
5. Okapi
6. Common warthog
7. Blue wildebeest
8. Black rhinoceros

Still missing at this point:
  • Cheetah
  • Aardvark
  • African wild dog
  • Aldabra giant tortoise

I think this is respectable. The cheetah would probably lead the META wishlist at this point 😃
Click to expand...
Wow! That's really well thought out. Except for the outrage after that would surelyt follow that first ack over these animals lack in the base game, and the somewhat reliance on animal packs to speed up the introduction of many species to the game. How would you do the themes in this pack?
 

avietar

avietar
yoav_r said:
Wow! That's really well thought out. Except for the outrage after that would surelyt follow that first ack over these animals lack in the base game, and the somewhat reliance on animal packs to speed up the introduction of many species to the game. How would you do the themes in this pack?
Click to expand...
There would be a major outrage hahaha! I can imagine. And to be fair, we also had some major exclusions and lacking regions in the real base game (South America, Australia, Europe, North Asia). But for some reason the outrage was audible, but didn't keep people from buying the game. So I think it would be alright.

Also, to be fair, when I go to the zoo there are a lot of less obvious animals there, and the reason they keep them is often because there is a conservation interest. So when you go to the zoo, you learn about all these interesting animals you didn't know about. That's how I feel when I look at the DLC-as-base-roster. All these odd unique and interesting animals that will be a lot of fun to learn about.

How I would do themes... I think some themes can go with their respective DLC, such as East Asia with the Asian theme, and North America DLC with the New World theme. Other DLCs will get a new theme, such as the Himalaya DLC. And other themes (such as South America theme) will have been part of the base game. Some of these themes will obviously signal a future DLC, such as the Africa theme being part of the base game :p
 

The_Riot22

The_Riot22
I think with only a few tweaks this would be a solid opening roster.
I would remove:
  • Malayan Tapir
  • Koala
  • Dhole
  • Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman
and add:
-African Lion
  • Asian Elephant
  • Bengal Tiger
  • Lowland Gorilla

With this roster, you got most of the biggest zoo animals represtented:

Zebras are missing, also antelope representation is pretty low, as are monkeys...on that note, you titled it as "DLC animals", but I think the Black and White Lemur should be added on here, as it fits better in the DLC category than the base game category.

I agree that the first pack should be an African centered one. I would do an African Savannah Animal Pack.
I would follow it with a Greater Asia DLC
Then a Rainforest Animal Pack
And I would round out the first year with a Mountains DLC
 

KönigDerKaffeebohnen

K
KönigDerKaffeebohnen said:
Tbh, while this roster would be much more ballanced, i think that frontier made a good decision over concentrating on africa in the basegame.
Not only because this game originally was planet safari and had a south african focus (which is to blame for the hyper fixation on even quite rare south african antelopes like the black over the blue wilderbeast, the nyala and also why the springbock us in the game, eventhough its also a common zoo animal), but also because it let the game have a green area right from the start if we remember the list of areas that need expansions.
This allowed for versatile african sections from the start, while also giving us some other animals from other continents that either are essentials (bears, tigers, wolfes), "easy" to make (asian elephant, second tortoise, more bears) or just random choices they liked (Bairds Tapir, Japanese Macaque, Pronghorn).
Im also quite sure that many not african animals started out as african ones, like the indian rhino, salt water crocodile, snow leopard, etc to honestly very successfully establish animals outside of africa.
And i doubt that i have to explain to anyone that it was a great roster to expand from.

Now to what i would change:

First, all restricting subspecies go away!

West African Lion -> African/Southern Lion
Himalayan Brown Bear -> Eurasian Brown Bear
Formosan Black Bear -> Asiatic Black Bear
Bengal Tiger -> Sumatran Tiger

I would actually add one Clone Animal by splitting the wolf into a Eurasian one and an North American one, my preference being the critically endangerd hot climate red wolf of the south, a change i would still like to see. Aniversery animal maybe?

For the Cuts, id take out:

- Nothing! I do believe that there were no bad animal inclusions in the basegame, just bad subspecies.
All animals are allowed to stay :)

But if i had to cut one and replace, it would be the thomsons gazelle for being to boring for the deluxe edition.
My replacement would be the emu, giving us australias most common zoo animal using the ostrich rig.
This way, both Australia and South America would start out with 2 Animals, not great but it would help australia to keep up a little more, as now with unchanged dlc only a wallaby is truly missing.
Also the chainsaw bird is just fun amd much more worthy of the deluxe addition then the boring gazelle.
Click to expand...
Hey, i got an animal to axe for the red wolf after reading this thread, the bonobo!
Talking about unnecessary when i even forget that they even exist.
Honest question, does anybody actually use them over the chimpanzees?
And if yes, why?
 
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