The slow orbital cruise approach causes a host of problems.
- Thread starter DemiserofD
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When it comes to FPS combat? There are many, many options. Anything from OverWatch to Star Wars Battlefront to Call of Duty.
If the FPS sections tied more directly into the primary gameplay, perhaps, but even then, you can almost certainly get whatever Rewards in some other way.
But as they are? Almost completely separated from the base game? Even if I could get there as fast as I could boot those games up, the value is somewhat questionable. With a dramatically slower load time, it becomes even harder to justify.
The Big Value in Cross genre content is being able to do things on a basic level without having to go out and find another game. In the original Star Wars Battlefront 2, for example, the space combat is not particularly deep, but I can get there in a few seconds and a few clicks. This, combined with the fact that this bonus content merges seamlessly with what the game is really good at(fps combat), gives much greater value than what it might give in isolation. But if it took longer to get to that content then to just boot up another game, and if that content were completely separated from everything that makes the game good, how often am I going to use that content at all? Precious little. And that's pretty much exactly what we have seen historically, with the use of srvs. Most players rarely use them except for specific purposes, most often farming materials as quickly as possible, and then they get out of them and try not to use them again.
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attitude bad?
Re-entering earth is all about attitude, astronauts have to keep a positive attitude, it refers to the decent attack angle at which the spacecraft flies (about 40 deg)
the visabilty coms blackout heat glow part takes about 90 seconds
it takes nasa astronaughts about 20 mins in total inc prep lol
we on the other hand are now down in 60 sec which aint bad really
ok so a uap ( tic tac) can do it a lot faster but our understanding of physics and engineering isnt quite there yet...……………………….
(slowing down interaction with space time and potentially plotting a course trough an explosion sounds like fun)
so the sound barrier is broken with a boom stands to reason the light barrier is broken with a...………….
sorry albert but c you knew it was a two way trip
Re-entering earth is all about attitude, astronauts have to keep a positive attitude, it refers to the decent attack angle at which the spacecraft flies (about 40 deg)
the visabilty coms blackout heat glow part takes about 90 seconds
it takes nasa astronaughts about 20 mins in total inc prep lol
we on the other hand are now down in 60 sec which aint bad really
ok so a uap ( tic tac) can do it a lot faster but our understanding of physics and engineering isnt quite there yet...……………………….
(slowing down interaction with space time and potentially plotting a course trough an explosion sounds like fun)
so the sound barrier is broken with a boom stands to reason the light barrier is broken with a...………….
sorry albert but c you knew it was a two way trip
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For CZs specifically, yes, there are better FPS games out there. Except i play Odyssey for the whole package, and sometimes i do ground CZ, but usually to work the BGS and win settlements. I can't win those settlements by playing Overwatch.
And you can't unlock weapon skins for OverWatch by playing Elite. Or new weapon parts for Counter-Strike.
The question is why players should bother with one over the other? Why do I unlock weapon skins? On a basic level, for the same reason you try to take settlements; it's an achievement. Something to do. Something to give your time value.
But no one achievement is worth more than another. People don't get achievements because the achievements exist, they get achievements because the game is fun, and they enjoy playing it.
And if Elites FPS segment is no more fun, but with an arbitrarily longer loading screen, all things being equal, people will simply choose other options. And that's not good. You want people playing the game as much as possible, and in pursuit of that goal, you should remove as many arbitrary limitations as possible, without compromising the base game.
I agree that some of the ideas mentioned above, like for deployment on uneven ground, would be valuable QoL improvements for particular time sinks. But these are details. On the entire scale, I found the most effective way of dealing with such issues is achieving control over one's own impulses. Do I really need to do something if it keeps rubbing me the wrong way. Do I really have to have this thing if there is no alternative way of getting it (s. about choices above, like, do I have to go through conflict zones for an upgraded explorer suit -- is this the case?) Or if I simply don't have the time to sit down with a game and get a rewarding experience from it, why would I feel compelled to boot it anyway only to struggle to rush something. Or is there something wrong with my life if I can't find the time at all, and if I don't want to change it why did I buy the game. It transcends into all aspects.
Regarding the FPS content in Odyssey, yes this is indeed quite a different game and there are better ones out there if that's what one wants. Mentioned earlier that I see it as a stepping stone in development, laying the technical foundation for more interesting things like alien civilisations and natural life you can interact with. And that it would be too much to ask from the dev team for both the technology and the content to be ready at the same time. A guess on my part, just hoping it is going this way. As it is, I'm not much interested in it. But I don't think it's fair to say Odyssey is 100% about that only. At least I got it for other reasons.
But what is that experience? Going AFK for 10-15 minutes between activities?
I can appreciate other games might not offer the same overall activities.. and perhaps even inferior ones... that's no justification to be tolerant of aspects that detract from the game experience.
There's a compound issue at play here. Space based missions are readily stacked... i can load up on a cargo delivery, salvage, hijack, assassination and massacre, then spend roughly half an hour flushing them out, with maybe a minute between activities. The 5m return to base is likewise usually flecked with wrinkles and tails which chop up that trip and make it interesting.
Contrast against Odyssey... that has pretty strict anti- stacking mechanisms, meaning i can only take one activity per destination... of course, there's multiple bases and i can take one per base, but now there's a 10m wait time between each activity... with a majority of that spent just sitting there, waiting for your ship to get up to speed, or simply afk while you apex there. The ratio of idle time to active play time is massive compared against the space game.
Throw in that Odyssey rewards are underwhelming compared to ship based ones by all objective measures... and even horizons settlements don't offer anything in the way of unique, meaningful interactions... it's not a great design.
When i log on, it's because i want to play, not wait.
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There is no reason to be binary about it. Play Overwatch for the Overwatch experience. Play ED for the ED experience.
For sure, i want to spend as much time as possibly enjoying activities. And that i think is where Odyssey stuff generally beats the space based stuff.
Ground missions, on average, take a bit longer to do than space missions, although i'd say i can clear a settlement CZ quicker than a i can clear a space CZ.. due to HP inflation in space CZs they can get quite tedious. Ground CZ provide a much faster paced, and if my opinion, fun option than space CZ.
So, with the more involved Odyssey missions, i spend a more time doing the mission than travelling. I can easily spend 15-20 minutes doing a stealthy base mission, but in terms of space missions, its mainly just fly to destination, press some buttons, or make a ship go boom, and then done. The more complex ones might involve grabbing some goods from a wreckage or a hostile ship and those tend to be more fun as the whole mission isn't simply go from A to B. Of course, Odyssey also has its A to B missions. Basic courier missions are more or less the same regardless of whether space based or ground based.
But overall, i like you spend a lower percentage of your time travelling when doing Odyssey stuff.
Where Odyssey fails is the rewards compared to the space based missions. I understand from a technical point of view why FD don't allow stacking of missions (you can actually stack a couple of types to the same settlement sometimes) but its not an issue for me, because i'm enjoying the activity itself, its just a shame the rewards are not comparable for the time/effort put in.
So, for me, the extra minute spent getting down to the planet is not an issue, because i'm spending a lot more time doing the actual meat of the mission, rather than just A to B and press some buttons.
In conclusion, greater % of time spent in Odyssey actually doing missions than flying from A to B is what makes Odyssey missions more worthwhile for me.
Could space missions be made more involved? FD have made some attempts in this area, with missions where you have to track down the target and find contacts, but the meat of those is still A to B travel. Go to A, travel to B, travel to C.... i struggle to see how space based missions could have the complexity of ground based missions that take time and brains to complete.
yes doing lots and lots of nothing is the new play the game your way something according to fdev
well @least I can sit in that chair but not that one is something
personally a sit down & cornetto time is important time to me of as we don't have the luxury of a pause button
but as for immersion if a seats empty...……………..
still theres plenty of bars to not drink @ (rockstar level of programming cant wait for gsa space)
in the mean time ill just have to lick my helmet visor like everyone else has too as is the only visable liquid in game
if this was a Taffey Lewis joint id say the man is dry or see storms no precipitation, but a small chance of spaceship debris
(name the x3 sci fi movies quoted for rep)
well @least I can sit in that chair but not that one is something
personally a sit down & cornetto time is important time to me of as we don't have the luxury of a pause button
but as for immersion if a seats empty...……………..
still theres plenty of bars to not drink @ (rockstar level of programming cant wait for gsa space)
in the mean time ill just have to lick my helmet visor like everyone else has too as is the only visable liquid in game
if this was a Taffey Lewis joint id say the man is dry or see storms no precipitation, but a small chance of spaceship debris
(name the x3 sci fi movies quoted for rep)
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In the end they're just games. It takes some effort to control impulses, and unless it's for something serious, I prefer to just chill out.
What were your reasons, out of curiosity? As far as I can tell, the main aspects of Odyssey are FPS combat and exobiology, but I'm curious to see what other people think.
Admittedly, I haven't, like, done math or anything on it, but I can't help but feel this isn't true. Just for example, to do a basic salvage mission, in horizons you just need to drop at a degraded emissions site and scoop up a black box, maybe 2 minutes, including travel time. To do the same in Odyssey you've got the added planetary approach time, which takes at least ~2 minutes on its own, plus landing and running up on foot and so on. The odyssey content takes notably longer. The only real advantage Ody has is APEX, so you can go AFK as you travel.
Salvage missions, depending on location, can take a few mins while you search boxes, whereas space ones they appear right in front of you when you drop out.
I suspect if you did time it, you'll find you spend a greater % of time doing ground based missions than travelling when compared to space based missions. Especially if you don't just focus on the simple missions, but the wide range of Odyssey missions which involve more than just grabbing something.
First the 'Grind' Now the 'Rush'. It's meant to take time. Would you be happy with a pop up screen that says 'land?' when you get into orbit? Also if people run out of time trying to dock, then they simply need to keep trying until they get better, or use a DC, not want it completely removed from the game. In VR, landing manually is one of the best parts, the massive scale becomes apparent the closer you get. It's immersive. I have a cockpit to sit in with Buttkickers and other transducers and the whole landing segment and the vibrations and thumps are immense. If you ever experience it, you'd never have made this thread. Again, the more you put into Elite, the more you get out of it. Imagination, immersion. As you said, it's not the only game out there. It has already been nerfed to hell over the years to placate other users, some I agree with on reflection, This I definitely do not. The time it takes for the various things in the game reflect how enormous the play area is. I love NMS, but Launch / Landing is arcade. Just leave it as it is. The majority are happy.
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That's the exact opposite experience I just described, and isn't shared by me.
Odyssey's ground-based activities have a greater proportion of waiting doing nothing than there is in actually doing the activity, and it's not because arriving takes a minute more, it's because leaving takes 3-4 minutes more.
I have no problem with Odyssey's individual activities taking 10-15 minutes (reward issues notwithstanding). How it looks is this though:
Horizons: Grab a bunch of activities in the one system.
1 minute arriving in-system
30 minutes doing the various activities. There is no "wait" between activities, as you'll be interrupted by the various wrinkles, dynamic events (NPC pirate spawns), even other missions etc.
2 minutes to return to the mission provider. Rinse/repeat.
Odyssey: Grab a bunch of activities in the one system.
2 minutes arriving to the first activity (add one minute as it's a surface mission)
10 minutes doing one activity.
5 minutes moving to the next activity in that system
10 minutes doing the next activity
5 minutes moving to the next activity in that system
...etc.
Again, the issue here isn't arriving to a planet, it's departing from a planet. It's a huge timesink and the first thing everyone noticed during the Odyssey alpha.
If you could bolt Frontline / Vista services into this, it might help:
forums.frontier.co.uk
In effect its like carrying a FC service with you in your pocket. So less back and forward, at a cost.
DuhdahduDAHDAHDAHDUdadudaDUHH Thunderbird 2 like modular pod / deployable base / in flight interior
Although there is nothing wrong with posting some gratuitous vehicle shots (hnggg) I just wondered if FD could scratch multiple itches with this idea: First, for anyone who is unfamiliar, this is Thunderbird 2: Glorious 🥲 Now, imagine ships could be equipped with a similar drop pod, a bit...
In effect its like carrying a FC service with you in your pocket. So less back and forward, at a cost.
Well, guess we just have different perspectives and experiences.
What exactly? Space missions are generally make a ship go boom or dock and deliver.
So here's a pretty typical setup. In one target system I'll grab a couple assassinations, a massacre, a couple salvage missions, maybe a hijack if I'm lucky.
I'll then head off to the salvage or hijack mission USS. Along the way, I'll probably get interdicted by one of the assassination targets, pop them, scoop the G4s/5s. Grab the salvage, pop any hostiles that might arrive, also scoop their mats. At the next salvage USS i might have an assassination target or two pop in at the same time. Scoop mats... if I have any assassinations left, I'll clean them up, but around this stage my salvage missions have generated tails who want to take me out, so I'll get interdicted and fight them off, scoop the mats again. Lastly I'll do the hijack mission, then if i have any kills left on the massacre, i'll hit the USS for that.
It's constant and dynamic activity.
Just remember; I prefaced this with "Grab a bunch of activities for the one system" in both cases. Odyssey's hard anti-stacking measures are a huge drawback here, meaning you can only do one mission per colony.
There's multiple issues compounding to cause this problem, but the travel time leaving a planet to move to the next activity is a big one.
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So, to state similar with Odyssey missions, i might grab a couple of assassinations, a massacre, a couple of salvage missions, maybe a heist/theft mission if i'm lucky.
And basically repeat what you just said adjusted for Odyssey gameplay. However, the missions themselves will likely take longer than their space based counterparts.