1.2 vs 2.2 FDL: A comparison

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Truesilver said:
The basic point, Mr Barron, is that the invention of the feedback cascade rail overturned the prior pecking order, which was (best down):

1. Corvette/Cutter
2. Anaconda
3. Python
4. FdL

Because of the SCB meta.

Now (subject to Kyo proving everyone wrong ...) it is:

1. FdL
2. Corvette/Cutter
3. Anaconda
4. Python

Of course, if the FdL doesn't bring a FCR the previous order reasserts itself, as you discovered in the encounter you told us about.

By way of illustration, here we see two most experienced PvP-ers, Oddisee (aka Deathgrips) v Majinvash (former Captain of the Code), FdL with FCR v Corvette:


https://youtu.be/M8xD8PzHXsg
Click to expand...

Mr Barron??? Now I feel really old!

Great information, thank you. I'll have to wait till I'm off work to watch the vid, though.

I understand the concept and importance of the feedback rail, but in my experience it isn't always a given that PvPers are automatically going to be carrying them. In fact, I could count the number of CMDR's on one hand and have most (if not all) my fingers left over that were actually carrying them based out of Jameson's (for instance), in the last month.
 

Kyokushin

Kyokushin
Fixed should get a bit boost, because skill in aiming should be a bit more promoted by game. I know its XXX century, but there are so many things from fairy tales (like physics), so we can also have fixed weapons for 'gameplay'.

When i started to playing i used gimballs, then i when FDL comes out i switched to 5 pulses fixed... then i had classic fixed plasma + multi build, and next was thermal build, i throwed it off (it was op and lame) and started with something different.
In last months i switched from FDL rather to vette, i tried to play on fixed by linkind huges and small and it was not so bad, but i tried again gimballs.
Hm they seems to be just more efficient than fixed.
 
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Admiral Darkcloak

Banned
Admiral Darkcloak
We need to buff the courier. My grade 5 overcharged multicannons are only putting out 20.3 damage per second x 3 multicannons. They are gimbals. Id like to see em at 30 each but that is wishful thinking. :D
 

psyantologist

psyantologist
Kubicide said:
(Let's not forget it was the devs that threw in the super-sized power plant that no one asked for.)
Click to expand...

That is just silly. The ship was lacking power. It's ridiculous to give a ship 4 medium and one huge hardpoint and not give it the capacity to run enough juice to power those.

The FdL is OP compared to other combat ships, yes - increasing utility slots in ships like Python/F*S/Clipper will mitigate some of that, even more so will the upcoming module armor considering how few optional internals the FdL has. I'm sorry too that the FAS' strong hull no longer works to keep it going without shields and, as pointed out, the all-bottom utility slots are unfortunate for point defence reasons - we'll see how well the module armor kits work.
 

Kyokushin

Kyokushin
For me FDL need more jump (if someone want to play combat then let him play combat, not jump&scoop simulator) and one internal, even class 1...
Python needs 1-2 utility slots
fas/clipper have their own league
and 2-3 more ship in python/fdl range level.
 
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[VR] Enexemander

[VR] Enexemander
As a Federation guy with an FAS and Gunship, this thread (and the mirror one on Reddit) just makes me think...

7S9scZA.jpg
 

Ziljan

Ziljan
Alexander the Grape said:
http://i.imgur.com/fmAj8iS.png

FDL has gotten a lot stronger since its original inception. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I usually agree with your insights and analysis, but today I am going to have to massively disagree.

The overuse of the FDL is purely down to:

1) aesthetics
2) hype

A fully engineered FDL is not much better than a fully engineered Python when it comes to combat. Maybe 15% more efficient at killing, and similar good at tanking (once all other factors are taken into effect). In all other respects the engineered FDL is significantly WORSE than the Python.

When Comparing the FDL to the Vulture, they both benefit heavily from engineering. But comparing the agility of the Vulture to the agility of the FDL?? No. On paper maybe they seem similar, but in practice an FDL struggles to gain an opponent's flank, whereas a Vulture OWNS everyone's flank from the word go. And since a Vulture can stay glued to a target's tail at point blank range with TOT = 100%, the effective sustained DPS of the Vulture is significantly higher than the FDL.

The Clipper? Well I tend to dislike the larger Imperial ships, but I've never come across a Clipper that was anything close to a push over in a PVP situation. Likewise with Elite NPCs, since they are extremely agile and quite tough, with decent firepower.

This whole 2-3 times shields calculation is a red herring btw. Comparing apples and oranges. The base shields of the other ships mentioned are only slightly lower when maxed out, and All of them can carry multiple redundant SCBs that extend their shields by at least 2-3x. Not to mention the HRP increases (and upcoming module reinforcement packages) possible on ships like the Python and Clipper! The only exception is the Vulture, which can actually avoid damage completely with its insane full throttle needle-threading agility.

The ship people should be complaining about is the Viper3. It's agility rating has been accurately relabeled as a 4. A FOUR!!! On a small Combat ship with flimsy shields and subpar speed. Its only saving grace is it's acceleration. This ship should be at least as agile as a Vulture, since it weighs 20% of the Vulture and has maneuvering thrusters that are relatively huge compared to the size of the ship. All combat ships that can't tank should be AGILE.
 
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Kyokushin

Kyokushin
What do you think about armour for FDL?
lightweight+heavy duty or
mirrored/reactive/military+heavy duty or
mirrored/reactive/military+lightweight
 
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Alexander the Grape

Alexander the Grape
Ziljan said:
When Comparing the FDL to the Vulture, they both benefit heavily from engineering. But comparing the agility of the Vulture to the agility of the FDL?? No. On paper maybe they seem similar, but in practice an FDL struggles to gain an opponent's flank, whereas a Vulture OWNS everyone's flank from the word go. And since a Vulture can stay glued to a target's tail at point blank range with TOT = 100%, the effective sustained DPS of the Vulture is significantly higher than the FDL.
Click to expand...


You can't stay glued to a competent pilot's ship's tail in any ship, let alone a vulture. Fa OFF, boost and reverski see to that (unfortunately)

May be different at different skill levels but from my experience you can do just fine with an FA off constant boosting FDL
 

Crimson Kaim

Crimson Kaim
Alexander the Grape said:
You can't stay glued to a competent pilot's ship's tail in any ship, let alone a vulture. Fa OFF, boost and reverski see to that (unfortunately)

May be different at different skill levels but from my experience you can do just fine with an FA off constant boosting FDL
Click to expand...

But that is only due to engineers. Before ...


[video=youtube;AbVULoA-fwU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbVULoA-fwU[/video]
 

Crimson Kaim

Crimson Kaim
BongoBaggins said:
I've flown both. The FAS is much, much harder to kill.
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Hull wise yes, but that's not the question. Once shields are down -> missiles. The fight is over at 90% hull strength because your weapons/drives are at 0%.

Shields down = lost. Period.

Exception: Hull tank Clipper.
 
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mono

mono
So basically you're asking for some balancing. If so please bear in mind this is your style of gameplay that you're asking to be balanced, not mine.

I was under the impression the luxury bounty hunting ship was supposed to be the apex predator for that style of gameplay, thus it's obvious that everyone is going to try and have the strongest ship possible in order to compete. If it gets changed, then those players move to another ship, another build. What happens when that one *appears* too strong and everyone has one? Round and round in circles we go.

Constant pleas to balance this, nerf that will ruin//are ruining this game. Here's a thought, just get on with it and be a better pilot than the guy you're fighting against. Some days you win, some days you die, but at the end of it all it's only a game.

Alexander the Grape said:
FDL has gotten a lot stronger since its original inception. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
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Ziljan

Ziljan
Alexander the Grape said:
You can't stay glued to a competent pilot's ship's tail in any ship, let alone a vulture. Fa OFF, boost and reverski see to that (unfortunately)

May be different at different skill levels but from my experience you can do just fine with an FA off constant boosting FDL
Click to expand...

Have you flown a fully engineered Vulture? They can do things no other ship can do. And btw, the Boost-Flip works against players who use it, especially vs more agile ships. Many people don't realize that by boosting they are only gaining distance, and sacrificing TOT. No matter how skillfully executed, a boost flip is never faster than a controlled flip.
 
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