2.2 is a Disappontment for PYTHON Commanders

[babelfisch]

The Pythons hardpoints don't really mean much since it has a lot of problems getting anything in front of its guns. And I knew the multi-role argument would come up, but dont forget that the Python IS a naval ship and its a pretty terrible fighter, so it should perform a little better than it does. If you compare it to other multirole ships, the Python is probably the worst performing in terms of combat. (pound for pound)

IMO FDS doesn't qualify, because while it has poor "on paper" maneuverability, it's actually very easy to use in combat because of the built in drift. The thing basically uses automatic FAOFF and it's pretty fun to use in combat, not frustrating like the Python.

Clipper is also just too maneuverable. The only time you'll ever see that things broadside is if you're not in combat with it.

F*S are no multipurpose ships. And I'd always prefer the Python for combat rather than the Clipper. It's a very capable ship if you know what you are doing.

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Well, no, the Keelback can fit a fighter bay so one could probably be fit in to the Python as well, it was just never designed for it.

As said above, I think the Keelback is taller than the Python.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Fixed

Another classic design that has survived the centuries. The first vessel was constructed in 2700 by Whatt and Pritney Ship Constructions. With the demise of the company and after various mergers and takeovers the ship design is now owned by Faulcon deLacy. The ship remains the slow and sturdy craft it was originally famous for and some smaller navies still use this class as a patrol cruiser (although tiny compared to the Imperial Interdictors and Federal Battle cruisers)

Official description says it's a patrol cruiser. Does it say somewhere else that it's an armed freighter?

 

[Mohrgan]

The Pythons hardpoints don't really mean much since it has a lot of problems getting anything in front of its guns. And I knew the multi-role argument would come up, but dont forget that the Python IS a naval ship and its a pretty terrible fighter, so it should perform a little better than it does. If you compare it to other multirole ships, the Python is probably the worst performing in terms of combat. (pound for pound)

IMO FDS doesn't qualify, because while it has poor "on paper" maneuverability, it's actually very easy to use in combat because of the built in drift. The thing basically uses automatic FAOFF and it's pretty fun to use in combat, not frustrating like the Python.

Clipper is also just too maneuverable. The only time you'll ever see that things broadside is if you're not in combat with it.

We don;t agree on the basic assessment of the Python, or a couple of other ships either. We will never see eye to eye in this debate.

The Python, like many other ships available, aren't used successfully as 'Dog Fighters'. I use gimballed weapons throughout in my Python, and it is tough as nails. If I were to change it out to a fighter I wouldn't be fitting it out hoping to dance around my opponents. It would be done more as a SCB boat. That is where I'm coming from.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

F*S are no multipurpose ships. And I'd always prefer the Python for combat rather than the Clipper. It's a very capable ship if you know what you are doing.

I know what I'm doing, I'm not using the Python because it's not very good at combat.

 

[hunvagy]

The Python is super compact for its size, to this day I cannot imagine where all that cargo goes in a ship of that size.. really. The Keelback had its engines bolted on the outside to make room for the fighter bay design wise, and it has an actual bay on the model. My reasoning is that the Python doesn't have a fighter bay because it wouldn't fit inside. I mean these ships are designed with the ability of traversing them within one day. So I guess they have to make room for most things you bolt onto it inside of the hull. Where would you put it? In fron of the cargo hatch where the ship is extremely narrow? In the back where the engines are? I personally just don't see any room on that model for the fighter bay doors. Or could imagine said fighter bay fitting inside of the model and still be a ship you can walk across.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

We don;t agree on the basic assessment of the Python, or a couple of other ships either. We will never see eye to eye in this debate.

The Python, like many other ships available, aren't used successfully as 'Dog Fighters'. I use gimballed weapons throughout in my Python, and it is tough as nails. If I were to change it out to a fighter I wouldn't be fitting it out hoping to dance around my opponents. It would be done more as a SCB boat. That is where I'm coming from.

I never said the python should be a dogfighter, I said it should get a launched fighter because it isn't one.

 

[kofeyh]

Official description says it's a patrol cruiser. Does it say somewhere else that it's an armed freighter?

Python is a technically a heavy interceptor. It was nerfed into the stone age when it turned out a heavy interceptor (fast, maneuverable, high shields and many guns) utterly destroyed Anaconda and was basically all kinds of busted as there really was no hard counter (apart from it's own kind).

And since Anaconda is the Golden Child? Python lost. Everything loses in this situation. Everything.

It's since been embraced as a multi-purpose transport ship; with engineering mostly putting it back into the frame as a heavy interceptor again. Engineering mostly places it back in line with the description, as is the case for a few ships.

Apart from Beluga; no-one (not even Frontier) has any clue what's going on there.

 

[babelfisch]

I know what I'm doing, I'm not using the Python because it's not very good at combat.

Compared to what? To a FDL? Yes, maybe. To other mulltipurpose ships? Since when is the Asp better at Combat than the Python? The Clipper could be on the same level, but the Python has more fire power and shields.

 

[kofeyh]

I never said the python should be a dogfighter, I said it should get a launched fighter because it isn't one.

As it's a wedge shape, it's arguable as to whether a fighter bay would 'fit'. Plausibly it might? Unsure. It may well be a political/ game-play reason for it not to support SLF, as a technical one. Only Frontier can really answer that.

 

[Mohrgan]

I never said the python should be a dogfighter, I said it should get a launched fighter because it isn't one.

With all of it's fire power and Durability intact? The Python is a beast. Adding a SLF would just be nuts. Something would surly have to give, in order for the Python to launch a fighter. Can you agree with that?

 

[babelfisch]

The Python is super compact for its size, to this day I cannot imagine where all that cargo goes in a ship of that size.. really. The Keelback had its engines bolted on the outside to make room for the fighter bay design wise, and it has an actual bay on the model. My reasoning is that the Python doesn't have a fighter bay because it wouldn't fit inside. I mean these ships are designed with the ability of traversing them within one day. So I guess they have to make room for most things you bolt onto it inside of the hull. Where would you put it? In fron of the cargo hatch where the ship is extremely narrow? In the back where the engines are? I personally just don't see any room on that model for the fighter bay doors. Or could imagine said fighter bay fitting inside of the model and still be a ship you can walk across.

This is the only important point IMO. If a fighter bay fits in a Python I'll support everyone wanting it.

 

[Craith]

Looks like your biggest issue are mission payouts. Sometimes it takes a few days after a major update until things settle down. I suggest to play for one week and gather feedback. If the issue still persists make a poll

Never been to Sothis, or similar (can't even remember what the station before was called), I fly a A graded Corvette now, with 20+ million rebuy. It took longer than a day to get it, but since I also didn't do rank-grinding, I had more than enough time to earn the money. The rebuy sets me back quite a bit, but it only happened twice yet - once when I got greedy in a CZ after 2.1 dropped, and once when I tried a boost enhanced FA-off turn 50m above ground - by turning the nose down ... on a 200m ship.

on Topic:
the Python can fit cabins, just not the luxury cabins of the Orca and Beluga - no matter how much you clean the deck, the Exxon Valdez will never rival the Queen Mary II for luxury cruises.
That the Python can't fit SLFs should not come as a surprise, as it was said it has no hangar bay, so where should the fighter come from? My Eagle also can't fit medium guns, even though the Viper can, and the Viper is even faster! Different Ships for different purposes, and no One-Size-Fits-All builds - thats a plus for me.
The free seat is for 2.3, I do hope that one day we can also put our NPC Crew there, but for that the Character Generator will be required (which is coming with 2.3)

 

[ratty_uk2011]

I fly exclusively a Python and I'm not at all distraught at missing a fighter bay, and I agree totally with the "balance" argument since this ship covers so many other functions so well. To be honest, I'd rather have something completely excluded, than have it fitted and then the ship overall nerfed for balance.

 

[hunvagy]

I fly exclusively a Python and I'm not at all distraught at missing a fighter bay, and I agree totally with the "balance" argument since this ship covers so many other functions so well. To be honest, I'd rather have something completely excluded, than have it fitted and then the ship overall nerfed for balance.

I really need to get my Python back someday, when I can afford both that and an Anaconda I miss the awesome cockpit and the general Goa'uld transport ship feel of it.

 

[bitstorm]

yes im damn disappointed. 9gb update for some little little sound and menu changes and that i cannot transfer my ship.... almost a year for that....

*slowclap*

*slowclap* simonlange *slowclap*

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Compared to what? To a FDL? Yes, maybe. To other mulltipurpose ships? Since when is the Asp better at Combat than the Python? The Clipper could be on the same level, but the Python has more fire power and shields.

Nah I wouldn't expect the Python to outperform a dedicated combat ship like the FDL. To other multipurpose ships then yes, you know what pound for pound means? The Python has been the worst multirole combat experience for me. Asp was fun and viable, Python wasn't fun but was barely viable, and Conda is too viable for a multirole ship (plus it gets a launched fighter)

 

[xaisis]

Well..
The forum seems to work in a python =_=

 

[Tikigod]

The Python is super compact for its size, to this day I cannot imagine where all that cargo goes in a ship of that size.. really. The Keelback had its engines bolted on the outside to make room for the fighter bay design wise, and it has an actual bay on the model. My reasoning is that the Python doesn't have a fighter bay because it wouldn't fit inside. I mean these ships are designed with the ability of traversing them within one day. So I guess they have to make room for most things you bolt onto it inside of the hull. Where would you put it? In fron of the cargo hatch where the ship is extremely narrow? In the back where the engines are? I personally just don't see any room on that model for the fighter bay doors. Or could imagine said fighter bay fitting inside of the model and still be a ship you can walk across.

Exactly.

Whilst the ship might in theory just about squeeze a fighter into something that would otherwise be used for cargo, simply for the sake of transporting it.... where exactly would the dedicated exterior portion where the fighter deploys and docks in to be retrieved go?

It really does all come down to that you certainly can have a ship with flexible interior space that can be used for multiple purposes, but when it comes to things that also have any kind of exterior or hull surface involvement you're no longer talking about just shifting internal space around.... unless people want the ability for the Python to be able to stash a fighter inside but never be able to launch it?

Just look at ships that are deploying or retrieving fighters, there's a whole structure that is deployed out of the ship when used. At least limpets are programmed internally and then just tossed out the cargo hatch.... but fighters have a whole launch/docking station pad that descends from under the ship.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

With all of it's fire power and Durability intact? The Python is a beast. Adding a SLF would just be nuts. Something would surly have to give, in order for the Python to launch a fighter. Can you agree with that?

The Python would still occupy the space between the Asp and the Conda so I can't really see whats wrong with it. The python for awhile has needed a little bit extra. I think we can all agree that in Elite some ships are definitely more equal than others, we all know which ships they are and the Python isn't one of them.

 

[babelfisch]

Nah I wouldn't expect the Python to outperform a dedicated combat ship like the FDL. To other multipurpose ships then yes, you know what pound for pound means? The Python has been the worst multirole combat experience for me. Asp was fun and viable, Python wasn't fun but was barely viable, and Conda is too viable for a multirole ship (plus it gets a launched fighter)

So you didn't like the Python. That's fine but doesn't make it poor in combat. I didn't like the Clipper, I am sure that some people are making it good use for combat though. BTW I don't really buy the whole "Python is too good for SLF" argument either, for me it's all about space and size. If it fits I'll support it.