2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[cheesenbiscuits]

That is because you are genuinely unable to comprehend why two different situations are different, and thus require different logic.

I want that on a t-shirt [big grin]

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

That is because you are genuinely unable to comprehend why two different situations are different, and thus require different logic.

You're the one using 2 completely different situations as your argument. I'm simply using the same logic as you. Respawn hasn't even been my only argument. Respawn, refuel, repair, re-arm, module installation, and cargo transfer are also all instant mechanics. Why are they OK, but not transfer.

That has been my only argument this whole time. I never even took a side. I asked a question. You've been attacking me ever since going off on things that have nothing to do with that. Comparing a space sim to an arena shooter.

 

[Jon93]

I think we can add all the last 3 polling options together and conclude that the majority wants it not to be instantaneous. Then we can say that it should take an average amount of time for it to happen.

My personal opinion on why I do not want it instantaneous: It runs the risk of highly affecting the balance of he game in many different aspects.

 

[CMDR_COM_TRUISE]

absolutely. ship transfer as additional gameplay possibilities? take into account jump distance, fuel, damage, route and npcs? noo lets make it instant. lazy.

 

[Frambitam]

Because the amount of wait time some have suggested would require days.

Days? Currently the farthest place you could go would be Jaques, which is around 22,000LY from the bubble. If we assume a time delay based on distance and jump range of the ship you want to transfer, then a modest 20LY jump range ship has a delay of 18-19 hours from Sol to Jaques.

 

[Ozram]

I agree. And as i just stated in another thread, the new 'method' of travel inside the bubble(s) will be via high jump range Asp Explorer. All our other ships can be fitted with grade 'D' FSD's.
This will impact the balance of all the games ships. Especially combat builds. Frontier must either implement an exponentially increasing credit cost scale verses distance. Or a sensible time delay. After all, having your ship 'travel' to you is already half the journey requied for you to physicly go amd get it !


Flimley

Indeed but the trouble with CR as the main penalty is it caters to the wealth hoarders/grinders, making second class citizens out of everyone else. A time delay equal in proportion to in game travel time works evenly across the board and stops other players from "gaming" the mechanic by paying their way out of having to plan their goals.

 

[tornad0s]

I've been waiting for so long to retrieve my ships...had to travel a lot to go for one, then for the other and such.

So yeah...transport YAY and instantaneous SUPER YAY. No more waiting...the waiting game is enough for me to then go and wait even more...Not sure in what time you are living in guys, but real life time is more important than wasting even more real time in a game.

I have ships in other systems for more than a year...a real life year.


Thank you very much Frontier. [big grin]

This^^. +1

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Granted instantaneous ship appearing is immersion breaking in either case, I can avoid one thing I hate (dying) by not dying!! But I can imagine that I was asleep in my escape pod, and my ship was delivered while I was sleeping. Yes no time has passed, but I can avoid that illusion breaking by simply not looking at the clock!!!

However, I cannot avoid travelling around the galaxy. Ergo, once again NO they are not the same thing. They do not impact immersion with the same frequency or degree.

Respawning does not influence the ship I fly.

Respawning doesn't bypass jump range balance on ALL ships.

Respawning doesn't have to break my immersion if I just don't look at the clock.


Now, you can say, "hey just don't look at the clock and imagine that you waited days". Well tell that to my Anaconda Taxi that I am suddenly flying everywhere. I hate the Anaconda. I hate the Asp. But now I would be an idiot to fly anything else to get from A to B. Which means I am going to dislike logging onto Elite because it is coercing me into flying these ships, or forcing me to feel like I am playing the game with 1 hand tied behind my back. AND it is invalidating all that hard work I did getting my FDL jump range up!!!

What about all of the other instant mechanics? What benefit does waiting long periods of time add?

As far as the FDL goes, you still have to travel with it once you're in it. The extra range would still be very beneficial.

Again, I'm ok with a delay. It just needs to ve reasonable. Defining reasonable is what I would rather discuss.

 

[Bambi]

You're the one using 2 completely different situations as your argument. I'm simply using the same logic as you. Respawn hasn't even been my only argument. Respawn, refuel, repair, re-arm, module installation, and cargo transfer are also all instant mechanics. Why are they OK, but not transfer.

That has been my only argument this whole time. I never even took a side. I asked a question. You've been attacking me ever since going off on things that have nothing to do with that. Comparing a space sim to an arena shooter.

Respawn is actually the only one that is different from the others, which is why I addressed that first. I don't expect you to be able to work out why. Or why, using consistent logic, ship transfer and cargo loading can lead to two different applications of the same logic.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Days? Currently the farthest place you could go would be Jaques, which is around 22,000LY from the bubble. If we assume a time delay based on distance and jump range of the ship you want to transfer, then a modest 20LY jump range ship has a delay of 18-19 hours from Sol to Jaques.

Still far too long. That would be 2 days in terms of when I would actually be able to use it.

 

[Elderoy]

Cmon it should take hours or even days if you're thousands of LY away...
If its quick or instantaneous, why bother upgrading FSD on small vessel so ?
Just buy an empty ASPX and fly.. Only to summon your fleet at your destination
It would completly kill the game

 

[Ozram]

What about all of the other instant mechanics? What benefit does waiting long periods of time add?

As far as the FDL goes, you still have to travel with it once you're in it. The extra range would still be very beneficial.

Again, I'm ok with a delay. It just needs to ve reasonable. Defining reasonable is what I would rather discuss.

I think reasonable here is the same time it would take to pilot the ship yourself. You still get the benefit of doing other stuff while the game brings the ship to your chosen destination for you.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Respawn is actually the only one that is different from the others, which is why I addressed that first. I don't expect you to be able to work out why. Or why, using consistent logic, ship transfer and cargo loading can lead to two different applications of the same logic.

It isn't different in the game universe, though. If you lived in that universe, how would you explain it away? That's suspension of disbelief. That's what maintains immersion.

I'd rather it be explained away like in EVE. It's a clone of you. The one in that ship is dead.

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I think reasonable here is the same time it would take to pilot the ship yourself. You still get the benefit of doing other stuff while the game brings the ship to your chosen destination for you.

See, I think that's far too long.

 

[Bambi]

It isn't different in the game universe, though. If you lived in that universe, how would you explain it away? That's suspension of disbelief.

No, that's just disbelief. Suspension of disbelief is when you ignore things that don't appear to make sense so that you can believe in the things that do.

 

[kepler84]

I hate the idea of an instant transfer and think it is very likely to at the least change the way any (most) people play the game, and will probably unbalance the gameplay.

I really don't see what the objection is to a timed transfer. For most people in the bubble this would be relatively short - 30 min, maybe a little more - and it's not like they can't be doing something else in this time.

Personally I'd require that the ship has sufficient FSD range to make the journey too because we don't have ships that carry other ships apart from fighters - so someone is flying your ship. And I'd have the amount you pay linked to the reputation of the pilot you hire to transfer the ship, with cheap options (i.e. more shady/desperate characters) carrying a risk of your ship being stolen (which could make for some interesting bounty hunting options). But this is just me, I can live without these bit, but instant transfer just doesn't sit right with me. It's a step too far away from realism IMHO.

I agree this decision is going to change the way everyone plays this game, but I disagree about it unbalancing it. There are not so many places you currently can't visit with every ship in the game. And even if we accept that, making people wait 30 minutes (or 30 hours) is not going to solve that lack of balance.

My objection to a timed transfer is that it would be a nuisance that wouldn't add anything to the game. Having to wait only 30 minutes to change my ship would mean me having to choose between spending 30 minutes of the time I have to play this game (which is not that much) doing something else, or doing something in the game that I'm not interested in doing. Both options not only are not going to improve my experience playing this game, but are going to make it worse.

Your proposals are fair, even when I disagree with some of them, but please keep in mind that the only reason why we are going to see that previously unnanounced feature in the next patch is because is simple and easy to implement in the current game.
Creating a system with stolen ships and all the ramifications you propose is not a bad idea, but I don't thing they have the resources to do it right at this moment. And I don't want to wait to the next season to be able to transfer ships between stations.

Please, keep in mind nothing of this is definitive, and just like it happened with the old mission board and will eventually happen with the atrocious debug camera, they could introduce better ways of doing this in the next seasons.

 

[Frambitam]

Still far too long. That would be 2 days in terms of when I would actually be able to use it.

Eh?? The concept, at least in my mind, is that you have contracted an NPC to fly the ship to you. They don't stop flying it when you log off. 18-19 hours real time, not just in game time. I'm certain this has been made clear to you - are you not paying attention or are you trolling?

 

[Turban]

I think reasonable here is the same time it would take to pilot the ship yourself. You still get the benefit of doing other stuff while the game brings the ship to your chosen destination for you.

QFT.

I don't understand how there is even a discussion about this. I don't understand why FD would even come up with the instantaneous thing. WTH.

Don't do it FD !!! Damn it !

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

No, that's just disbelief. Suspension of disbelief is when you ignore things that don't appear to make sense so that you can believe in the things that do.

Suspension of disbelief is how much you're willing to tolerate before you lose immersion. Internal consistency plays a huge role in that.

Having one mechanic be instant among many others doesn't seem like a big deal. Why aren't people loading my cargo? Why does it take a split second to load 160ton engines on my Cutter?

If that is OK, ship transfer is no different. It's actually consistent with the rest of the mechanics in the station.

 

[Drelthar]

The thing is, while it would be realistic/immersive to make it take the right amount of time, and actually have the ship be flown by an NPC through the galaxy, simulate that, with a chance of it being destroyed etc etc. There is no real gameplay value to any of that.

If you want your ship... you want it, you don't want it in half an hour, and you definately dont want it to get destroyed when you have no control over it.

 

[Bambi]

My objection to a timed transfer is that it would be a nuisance that wouldn't add anything to the game.

You are replying to one of countless posts that explains in detail what it would add.