2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Bomba Luigi]

No, but its a bit more believable when you tone the gloom&doom down a bit. You may really dislike this feature, and consider it breaking immersion or whatever, but there is really no reason to go overboard with the whole "from now on everything will be gamey and MMO etc". It doesnt really add to the feedback either. If we want to influence the devs, we just need to say:

1) What we like about the current idea
2) What we dont like
3) What we suggest instead
4) What the advantages of 'our' ideas are
5) What the disadvantages are (and they are there, so we need to be honest!)
6) Argue why the advantages of our ideas outweigh the disadvantages, while taking into account the different kind of players FD has to cater to.

A blanket "from now on everything will be dumb" isnt helping anything.

The missunderstand my what I meant, thats its going gamey not caring for beliavablity is something I said I and possible many other have to start accepting because its happening for a while now and with 2.2 its just become even more clear. Some space maigic thing here and there isn't problem (it has to be to a degree), but it gets more and more to the point where it at least for me is too much space magic stuff. Sure there can be good stuff here and there, and being your typical mmo thing isn't bad either per se just not what I really care for.

Wouldn't mind being wrong of course, but seeing what they are doing latley I don't see a reason to be optimistic for now.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

The revolt against engineers was not this pronounced and that was subsequently nerfed. adding restrictions or delays would not remove the ship transfer feature as lowering the material requirements for engineers did not negate the RNG effect, sorry but your just clutching at straws now.

No, it just got reflected in the downward trend of Steam reviews and the majority of people who don't come here to forums which are hostile to anyone who doesn't sing blind praise for Frontier. Maybe stick your head outside of this bubble once in a while, these forums aren't exactly reflective of what's going on out in the world.

 

[Lobstris]

Whats the upper limit? Did they say?

No. TBD at a later date - probably in the balancing pass before 2.2 goes live. I imagine their thinking is that it would need to be low though to allow casual players to get to Jaques and participate in the second bubble, though.

 

[TheSisko]

I was going to ugrade my Combat Condy with a Level 5 FSD Range upgrade later.

Now I'm re-considering. I could just get into my long range Asp, go where-ever for combat, and then cast the Teleportation Spell to get my Condy over. Saves time? Yes. Realistic within the existing framework of the game? Hell no.

Farseer Inc are about to lose a truckload of business.

 

[Ian Skippy]

It feels that making everything easy , less brainy and just allaround easy is the goal now.

I understand, but be honest: do you really find 'moving your ships to a new homespot' to be difficult, engaging and 'intellectually stimulating'? I'm all for making it hardcore, difficult, brutal and challenging. Make it iron-mode. Have all kind of ship malfunctions. Make me start to leak fuel when exploring, cause misjumps etc etc. But 'spend my sunday moving nine ships to my new 'home base' 300LY away' is just annoying. Immersive? Sure. But at some point when the immersion is too annoying I'd rather handwavium it away.

For example, in X:R cargo is manually placed in your ship. You can see it happen, and you can even stop it. You shoot one little drone, that ship will have one unit cargo left! Its super realistic, very immersive, and means that loading a big freighter means staring at little drones for 30 minutes. I'm glad we dont have that in ED. I dont think many here wants to really have that stuff in ED. However, if it were like that at the moment, and FD would remove the annoyance to what we currently have (instant cargo loading), suddenly many would be upset because it confronts people with the 'un-immersioness' of the system.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

No, it just got reflected in the downward trend of Steam reviews and the majority of people who don't come here to forums which are hostile to anyone who doesn't sing blind praise for Frontier. Maybe stick your head outside of this bubble once in a while, these forums aren't exactly reflective of what's going on out in the world.

Neither are Steam reviews which can be and are gamed to prove a point.

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I was going to ugrade my Combat Condy with a Level 5 FSD Range upgrade later.

Now I'm re-considering. I could just get into my long range Asp, go where-ever for combat, and then cast the Teleportation Spell to get my Condy over. Saves time? Yes. Realistic within the existing framework of the game? Hell no.

Farseer Inc are about to lose a truckload of business.

To be fair, even with delay that would be an issue.

 

[raymondo the great]

No. TBD at a later date - probably in the balancing pass before 2.2 goes live. I imagine their thinking is that it would need to be low though to allow casual players to get to Jaques and participate in the second bubble, though.

Well if the goal is to allow casuals who were moaning the CG was too far away to participate to participate then the cost would have to be stupidly cheap! Because causuals aren't going to pay the sort of cost I've seen suggested (300mil to Jacques, that was based on linear scale of one of the screens they showed) and really... that's just going to make it even worse IMO.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Neither are Steam reviews which can be and are gamed to prove a point.

You're serious, right? That'd need an awful lot of money to do that, or a REALLY co-ordinated number of game owners. That only happens in two cases, and both of those are the developers fault.

 

[Lenin]

No instant transfer please - let us hire an NPC to get it to us and we can watch the progress on the galactic map - and occasionally have the guy just nick the ship, so that we can try and track him down - more gameplay.

 

[Omgzzwtf]

ok, so they probably aren't going to put in any time limit, confirmed by Sandro in todays stream, but it will be behind a credit wall, which will hopefully limit the amount of times you can do it. Though this is still a little contentious for me, since they said that the price would be expensive, but then later in the stream said it wouldn't be that much.


I suppose it's not fair to say that they don't care about immersion or realism, since they do try hard to get a lot of things "scientifically" accurate (hard to do when half of the stuff is based on theory or just made up to begin with, but they try, so kudos).

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

You're serious, right? That'd need an awful lot of money to do that, or a REALLY co-ordinated number of game owners. That only happens in two cases, and both of those are the developers fault.

Which haven't been an problem in the past.

Steam reviews are unreliable

 

[Privata]

No. TBD at a later date - probably in the balancing pass before 2.2 goes live. I imagine their thinking is that it would need to be low though to allow casual players to get to Jaques and participate in the second bubble, though.

So casuals are the new focus...

It makes sense now.

Easy AI , easy upgrades , nerfed docking , Instant ship tranfer , high bounty payout for no effort at all...

Is this the game I backed? I mean I still love ED and FD , and it was worth every euro I spent (own nearly all the paintjobs) but now I sort of wonder if I should have done that

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Also I really wouldn't jump to conclusions about price tag. Beta is considerable time away - few weeks at last - and during it they will vet those numbers a lot.

 

[Weps]

QFT. +1

sandro weighed the pros and cons and came to the conclusion that instant was best, we need to show we've done the same if we're going to convince him otherwise.

I think that what was weighed (not necessarily by Sandro mind you) was the profile of players who have already purchased the LEP vs. the profile of players who are yet to purchase future Seasons.

They already have the money of the hardcore enthusiasts, they need to now bring in the players who would be distraught at the idea of waiting for a ship to be delivered. It's a perfectly sane decision from a business perspective. It has nothing to do with building a certain universe or telling a certain story, it's about how it will affect sales. IMO, it's a simple as that.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Which haven't been an problem in the past.

Steam reviews are unreliable

Individual reviews MIGHT be, the aggregate once past the 3-4k mark is *extremely* reliable. It's generally too difficult and costly to game the system because you need to buy too many copies to shift the needle, or you need too many owners to act in a specific direction to cause a shift.

The latter has happened and as I said, is the developers fault.

You're not going to win this one.

EDIT : It's actually more likely that the Developer games the review system (Frontier did just that with some very iffy maneuvers with Horizons)

 

[Ian Skippy]

So casuals are the new focus...

It makes sense now.

Easy AI , easy upgrades , nerfed docking , Instant ship tranfer , high bounty payout for no effort at all...

Is this the game I backed? I mean I still love ED and FD , and it was worth every euro I spent (own nearly all the paintjobs) but now I sort of wonder if I should have done that

Sure. Casuals have zero interest in jumping to Jacques at the moment, but I am sure they'll come in droves if they can transfer a second ship once they arrived.

Can we stop the whole "FD is only aiming at kids/casuals/console gamers/griefers/combat players/whatever" and use real arguments?

 

[Omgzzwtf]

Well if the goal is to allow casuals who were moaning the CG was too far away to participate to participate then the cost would have to be stupidly cheap! Because causuals aren't going to pay the sort of cost I've seen suggested (300mil to Jacques, that was based on linear scale of one of the screens they showed) and really... that's just going to make it even worse IMO.

They said in the stream that the cost is going to be based on distance, and that it would be very expensive to transfer to Jaque's Station. No specific details, but they did say that, at least.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Individual reviews MIGHT be, the aggregate once past the 3-4k mark is *extremely* reliable. It's generally too difficult and costly to game the system because you need to buy too many copies to shift the needle, or you need too many owners to act in a specific direction to cause a shift.

The latter has happened and as I said, is the developers fault.

You're not going to win this one.

One phrase - upvoting/downvoting reviews. You don't need own a game for that. It feeds into calculated score.

Cheers man.

 

[Ian Skippy]

The 'pricepoint I consider valid'? Well. That's what beta testing is for isn't it? At the moment, and assuming an upper cap, that is far too low for my liking. As is making it low enough that someone can teleport a ship 22,000lys, when the fiction of the game limits ships to 100 or so.

Huh? I'd assume that thats exactly the kind of question we dont need a beta for. We know what the function does, there is no ambiguity here: you click a button, a ship appears. What do we need to 'beta test' to form an opinion on what a proper price point would be?

 

[Lobstris]

I think that what was weighed (not necessarily by Sandro mind you) was the profile of players who have already purchased the LEP vs. the profile of players who are yet to purchase future Seasons.

They already have the money of the hardcore enthusiasts, they need to now bring in the players who would be distraught at the idea of waiting for a ship to be delivered. It's a perfectly sane decision from a business perspective. It has nothing to do with building a certain universe or telling a certain story, it's about how it will affect sales. IMO, it's a simple as that.

This. Just this.