2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Lobstris]

Except that 'spend the whole day moving your fleet from System A to System B' is neither deep, challenging nor complex.

But it is part of a simulating managing a fleet of ships in space as a lone pilot. (heh, A more ideal simulation would actually be you need twice as long to summon a ship on average, as manually doing it yourself would take (limited FTL comms outside of systems, so you need to employ a runner first to where your ship is stored, before they come back with your ship )

 

[Ian Phillips]

Or just teleport the T9 backwards and forwards with a full hold in the profitable direction.

In Fact, with instant teleport technology available why have a cargo ship at all.... Just teleport the cargo !

You can only transport stored ships.

You cannot store a ship that has cargo.

/End complaint

 

[Ian Skippy]

Jeebus. That has to be the most... wha... I don't even know where to begin with that one...

...

OK. You do understand - if it's low, everyone will move ships around lots = gameplay impacts. if it it's too high everyone will not use the feature = pointless. Within those two extremes there is potentially a good compromise (or series of compromises) somewhere that achieves a good balance of the amount of transfers taking place, people's gameplay styles, not affecting CGs or trading adversely etc.

Obviously, reaching a good balance could take time, and many iterations, stretching into the live game. Or alternately (and more likely) we get a week or so to test, it goes live with whatever numbers Frontier wants, and problems fall out along the way (as has happened before - fuel costs, repair costs, cost of the Viper and FdL etc). Also obviously not everyone will be happy with the final outcome.

The first step in all this, now, is to wait for the beta and see what Frontier come up with. Hence "what beta testing is for". Still with me?

Sorry if that sounds patronising, and obvious, but you did just state that you saw no reason in testing the balancing an aspect of a major, contentious feature, if I understood you correctly. Yes the actual function of the button to summon the ship will probably work first time (but then again, what happened to the 10% fuel button...)

Really? In the beta, mostly experienced players participate. People with large bank accounts. With prices being cut by 90%. You seriously think that is going to give any kind of useful data on balancing transfer cost for the user base at large? Really?

This kind of balancing doesn't depend on some non-representative mini-test cycle. Its absurd. You run the numbers, using a number of different scenarios (beginner player/'intermediate'/'multi-billionaire'; short/medium/long distances; cheap/medium/expensive ships). We have brains for this kind of stuff, and after more than 100 pages I suggest we put them to work.

 

[lysan]

You can only transport stored ships.

You cannot store a ship that has cargo.

/End complaint

but I can go to a place in my hollowed out space jump anaconda, then transfer my super trade cutter, stock it up with 50 million contracts, do my trade runs and raise and repeat.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

But it is part of a simulating managing a fleet of ships in space as a lone pilot. (heh, A more ideal simulation would actually be you need twice as long to summon a ship on average, as manually doing it yourself would take (limited FTL comms outside of systems, so you need to employ a runner first to where your ship is stored, before they come back with your ship )

Many people will argue that managing your fleet isn't really feature of "deep and complex space sim". Considering there's more of PvE in ED than PvP, this argument makes sense.

Still....I am against instant transfer. Some meaningful delay is ok FD It seems poll shows that too.

 

[Ian Skippy]

But it is part of a simulating managing a fleet of ships in space as a lone pilot. (heh, A more ideal simulation would actually be you need twice as long to summon a ship on average, as manually doing it yourself would take (limited FTL comms outside of systems, so you need to employ a runner first to where your ship is stored, before they come back with your ship )

But its a boring, simple, and un-engaging part. And at some point one can ask if 'immersion' is that important that I have to routinely spend a fair number of hours doing boring stuff. Its a difficult line to walk, and we each draw it elsewhere, but I have never heared anyone say they enjoy moving their fleet about...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

but I can go to a place in my hollowed out space jump anaconda, then transfer my super trade cutter, stock it up with 50 million contracts, do my trade runs and raise and repeat.

And what difference it would make for doing same in Trade Cutter? Didn't follow. if you would have to jump back, you will still be restricted by Cutter's jump range.

 

[CMDR_Havok]

You can only transport stored ships.

You cannot store a ship that has cargo.

/End complaint

Why ? what fictional law of physics prevents this.... If ship teleportation is possible, then teleportantion of all maner of stuff is also possible.

And as you raised the point, Why, can't we store ships with stuff in te cargo hold....?

I would suggest that Frontier have someone who's job it is to look into all these imersion breaking inconsistency's and sort it out.

 

[warbaby2]

Except that 'spend the whole day moving your fleet from System A to System B' is neither deep, challenging nor complex.

True, but finding a trustworthy pilot/freighter commander or transport service, paying them for save transport and seeing whether the ship/modules arrive in one pieve (if at all) would be...

 

[Ian Phillips]

but I can go to a place in my hollowed out space jump anaconda, then transfer my super trade cutter, stock it up with 50 million contracts, do my trade runs and raise and repeat.

50 million?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

But its a boring, simple, and un-engaging part. And at some point one can ask if 'immersion' is that important that I have to routinely spend a fair number of hours doing boring stuff. Its a difficult line to walk, and we each draw it elsewhere, but I have never heared anyone say they enjoy moving their fleet about...

Yeah, only reason I understand FD doesn't do this because there's simply not enough "meat" in this idea to make this worth while to implement. I was all for NPCs transporting our ships, but more I think, more I feel just a delay to give sense of transportation would be enough.

 

[ChubbyBunneh]

but I can go to a place in my hollowed out space jump anaconda, then transfer my super trade cutter, stock it up with 50 million contracts, do my trade runs and raise and repeat.

Yup. Every player will be required to own a lightweight Asp or Anaconda for traveling. Once they reach the destination, teleport their 'real' ship over.

This does help jump range challenged ships like unengineered T9s, Pythons, Cutters, and FDLs but still seems a bit cheesy to me. If the ship transport wasn't instant I suppose it wouldn't be so cheddar.

Edit: I'm gonna (ab)use the hell out of this game mechanic and never fly my FDL or Python long distances again if it goes live. Heavy armor is getting added to the FDL and the extra fuel tank and fuel scoop are getting stripped out.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

True, but finding a trustworthy pilot/freighter commander or transport service, paying them for save transport and seeing whether the ship/modules arrive in one pieve (if at all) would be...

It would be tedious for most of people to be frank.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Why ? what fictional law of physics prevents this.... If ship teleportation is possible, then teleportantion of all maner of stuff is also possible.

And as you raised the point, Why, can't we store ships with stuff in te cargo hold....?

I would suggest that Frontier have someone who's job it is to look into all these imersion breaking inconsistency's and sort it out.

They have just explained it on the live stream. You can watch it back on their YouTube channel.

 

[Starbreaker]

Spent the last couple of days upgrading FSDs on 6 ships after grinding missions for Ensign rank and buying a FGS.

The whole process went like this. Take Python and Cobra MKIV and fly it over to Farseer/Elvira, travel 180 ly back again and sell it, switch ship, buyback on new ship and repeat. Then buy an Adder, load it with fuel tanks and head on over to Arimil and bring the FGS back to home base, after that I need to look at the different rank 4 FSD upgrades and determine which of them should go into the Cobra MKIV, Vulture, FDS, FAS, FGS and Python requiring to sell, buy back until I'm happy with the jumpranges on each ship, oh and hope the game doesn't crash and I lose the module.. Really exciting stuff.

2.2 would've taken days off my time.

 

[[VR] Marrs]

That I guess is the dissapointing truth many of us really have to start to come terms with it, that it is just a game. I once tought I wants to be more but I guess I was very naive, its nothing more then some gamey mmo stuff without any hoots given to create a belivable galaxy or lore or anything.

I agree. That what's so disappointing. It's like someone telling us Star Trek was just a TV Show and they're going to make a movie where Vulcan gets blown up I digress...

 

[Mohrgan]

Why ? what fictional law of physics prevents this.... If ship teleportation is possible, then teleportantion of all maner of stuff is also possible.

And as you raised the point, Why, can't we store ships with stuff in te cargo hold....?

I would suggest the Frontier have someone who's job it is to look into all these imersion breaking inconsistency's and sort it out.

It's been sorted. The Dev's made it clear, only stored ships can be transported, and stored ships cannot have cargo. Done. They have also explained that even though it is a bit 'magical', the decision to have it all work the way it does was to benefit game play dorectly. They want players to be able to engage the available content at their own pace, without too many barriers of time.

 

[lysan]

50 million?

well, I was a bit on the positive side but lets just say a lot of money in no time if the contracts are there.

2 million in transfer will mean nothing.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

So casuals are the new focus...

It makes sense now.

Easy AI , easy upgrades , nerfed docking , Instant ship tranfer , high bounty payout for no effort at all...

Is this the game I backed? I mean I still love ED and FD , and it was worth every euro I spent (own nearly all the paintjobs) but now I sort of wonder if I should have done that

I am a hard-core enthusiast (played every iteration of Elite since 1984) who is now-of necessity-a casual player......and I can assure you that I utterly *despise* the idea of insta-transport. Just as I despise the nerfed AI, and the easy upgrades. So no, its not about pleasing casuals.....its about pleasing the Instant Gratification crowd. Not all casuals are into instant gratification. Personally, I find that making transport of ships too quick plays havoc with the pace of the game, & removes any need to carefully plan where you leave your ships parked.

 

[lysan]

It's been sorted. The Dev's made it clear, only stored ships can be transported, and stored ships cannot have cargo. Done. They have also explained that even though it is a bit 'magical', the decision to have it all work the way it does was to benefit game play dorectly. They want players to be able to engage the available content at their own pace, without too many barriers of time.

And that was what they could come up with? Oh sweet Jesus...[wacky]