2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Darrett]

For me convenience = fun as well. *shrug* this is a different strokes for different folks situation. These types of debates will go on forever, just like the open vs. PG vs. solo; neither side will be swayed.That being said, please don't think of my opinion as looking down on yours; I do understand that for some folks being fully immersed in a sim is their fun and I respect that. If a mod would please delete it, it has no contribution to the debate.

I don't think there's a huge gulf between the two though. I think most who would prefer instant transfer would be fine with a short transfer (especially if you could start the transfer prior to leaving for the system, so it could be done concurrently with your journey), just as those who think we should have a transfer time longer than it takes us to do it manually would be fine with a reduction in that time in the name of gameplay.

 

[Yaffle]

Counter argument, why not just set a timer and wait for your ship to 'arrive'.

Counter argument - why not just leave the ship moving and get on with your game, thereby ignoring it? If one party should ignore one thing the other should be able to ignore another thing, no?

Moreover, the change has large scope for exploiting as well as destroying the basic ruleset of the game, and removing some thought around gameplay.

 

[Ozram]

Is it just me or does this thread, unlike every other thread, instantly send you to last post made when you click on last unread post? I keep having to backtrack in order to read it.

 

[Dietger]

Ahoy!

As a second thought; we face a dilemma.

We want ship transfer, but getting your ship where you want it, without - actually - doing ANYTHING, is damaging the game. So what about risk and reward? Getting your FDL from Shinrata to Merope: flying it, should be rewarded. Ordering a ship transfer, must be slower.

Opinions please.

 

[Enderby]

Why are they trying their best to ruin their own game? PP, Engineers and now this?

Don't they have any good ideas?

 

[MadDogMurdock]

It's the destination, and that bit about one system, what codswallop. I've never been to France and likely never will, it may as well not exist is what that means. Well, except to the other people who like France. Glad you enjoy the journey, I don't want to take it away from you, stare at that static skybox for as many hours as you want, just don't make me do it.

That's where you're missing out. The skybox is far from being static. Still, each to their own.

 

[Yaffle]

Is it just me or does this thread, unlike every other thread, instantly send you to last post made when you click on last unread post? I keep having to backtrack in order to read it.

With me it's going to last unread.

Which browser are you on?

 

[Panticus]

Counter argument - why not just leave the ship moving and get on with your game, thereby ignoring it? If one party should ignore one thing the other should be able to ignore another thing, no?

Moreover, the change has large scope for exploiting as well as destroying the basic ruleset of the game, and removing some thought around gameplay.

Pay a small fee (prop to basic ship cost); 1 Minute per light-year; receive comms message when ship has arrived.

 

[thearmysredneck]

My fear, as detailed here, its that the "immersion heads" can hurt the game far more than help it.

 

[warbaby2]

My fear, as detailed here, its that the "immersion heads" can hurt the game far more than help it.

It's all about balance... but there IS such a thing as "damaging to the coherence of the game".

 

[Ozram]

With me it's going to last unread.

Which browser are you on?

Just the one that comes with my iPad. Funny thing is it's just with this thread. I nearly missed your reply because I had to scroll back up the page to see it.

 

[bitstorm]

Usually I'd agree, problem is, this game was made for - and with significant financial support of - those same players that prefer this kind of immersion... I think people keep forgetting that this is a kickstarted game, and it only came about because of FD's original design ideas... ideas they are apparently doing a U turn on now. That IS kinda serious for some of us...

I'm not saying this to be smug or anything, mind you, I'm just stating the facts... ED is not a purely corporate product, it's - in no small part - community designed... or it was, at least.

I really have no time for this sort of argument.

The game's been out for nearly two years now.

Whether you agree or disagree with any particular change, the Kickstarter backers have had their money's worth.

At this point Kickstarter backers are no more special and have no more say or "right to decide" than the person who bought the game yesterday.

And talk of refunding a lifetime pass because you don't like change X? Get out.

 

[Weps]

People don't have to wait for rare allocation, but they do and lets take a look at how healthy that little niche of the game is doing

They somewhat have to if they're into that activity, because you can't store what you already have in your hold. So you can't switch ships or engage in some other activity which requires your hold to be empty.

People didn't have to grind for engineer mats just because it was there, but they did.

Again, the choice here is muddy. You have to grind if you want the upgrades, plain and simple. So it's not a matter of wanting to grind, it's a matter of wanting the results.

Waiting for your ship to arrive while twiddling your thumbs, as the situation has been coined here, is strictly a player choice. We're not talking about the wait itself, we're talking about what you do in-game while that time passes. There is absolutely nothing forcing the player to do the twiddling other than his desire to sit inside the station looking at a screen instead of, for example, picking up a mission to the next system and returning just in time to see his ship arrive.

 

[Quill]

You're looking at one person. I'm thinking in terms of hundreds of thousands of transactions. Your idea sounds lovely when you think about it as an individual thing, all neat and shiny, but there's a lot of holes missing.

Start with the following :

* Where is arrival time stored, how does the server govern arrival time? Remember, the client cannot be trusted to hold the arrival time. As the server governs arrival time, it's going to need a queue for all these ships in transit otherwise there's going to be database blocking issues with all the ships being sent back and forth, that's going to need a scheduler. We're back to where we started.

* If you're going to query every ship that the player owns, then you're sending lots of queries where you should only be sending the relevant ones (i.e. the ones only for that shipyard) , now granted we could optimise it by limiting queries to say, the ship transfer window and once when you dock at a new station, but that still drives up the load significantly.

* Notification queue? Nice. Now we have TWO queues, one scheduler (and a partridge in a pear ~treeeeee~ )

* Oh, and a messaging app that pushes the messages through, but that's going to need either an update to the UI or some extra additions in the existing UI to allow people to handle ship transfer notifications.

* What happens if the push fails? Does this force a disconnect due to data not received by the client and lack thereof of response?

So Fuzzy Tiger, putting a timer on a ship transport with a money transaction into ED is completely impossible, it seems by your posts that this particular feature is beyond any programming capability, you seem to know what you are talking about so do you have any ideas?

 

[WR3ND]

I'm one of the weird guys just carying about Immersion. Mostly I would like to have a Galaxy that makes sense and is believable, tough as many have pointed out I'm being a bit silly consdiering its littered with unbeliavable unrealisic stuff. It was always easy ignoring little gamey things here and there, some where very understandable to exist, now drawing a line is maybe strange - tough it probably has to do with me not really noticing how much arcady the whole game already is, since all the little thing here and there may happend but I never noticed how they piled up.
I needed one big Big change to noticed that finaly I guess and once you notice the Icebear in the middle of the room you didn't notice before its hard to act like hes not here, what has been seen cannot be unseen. I never cared for playing a Game, I wanted a experience!

Not sure what I'm saying makes a lot sense or is understandable, but I tried! And yes, those pointing out that screw me I'm not relevant are probably right, for business its probably wise for FD to ignore weird little me.

You aren't weird. This is a niche game sold on these ideals. Frontier trying to make the game more mainstream and accessible is just going to help in ruining it for everyone. It's a huge mistake.

This game has a chance to be genre defining and stand as a beacon of hope of what can be accomplished. Instead, the devs seem to want it to be forgotten in complacent mediocrity.

 

[Ozram]

You aren't weird. This is a niche game sold on these ideals. Frontier trying to make the game more mainstream and accessible is just going to help in ruining it for everyone. It's a huge mistake.

This game has a chance to be genre defining and stand as a beacon of hope of what can be accomplished. Instead, the devs seem to want it to be forgotten in complacent mediocrity.

Yep [sad].    

 

[bitstorm]

Chill out guys no need to suicide over a game.

 

[Yaffle]

Just the one that comes with my iPad. Funny thing is it's just with this thread. I nearly missed your reply because I had to scroll back up the page to see it.

Odd. Chrome here dropped me to your post. I don't think it's a forum thing, but I don't know why this thread alone is an issue either.

 

[warbaby2]

At this point Kickstarter backers are no more special and have no more say or "right to decide" than the person who bought the game yesterday.

And talk of refunding a lifetime pass because you don't like change X? Get out.

I didn't say that, did I?

What I do say, though is: There was a longterm vision to this game once, and instant ship teleportation was not part of it...

 

[Dietger]

Ahoy!

As a second thought; we face a dilemma.

We want ship transfer, but getting your ship where you want it, without - actually - doing ANYTHING, is damaging the game. So what about risk and reward? Getting your FDL from Shinrata to Merope: flying it, should be rewarded. Ordering a ship transfer, must be slower.

Opinions please.

1+ Reped

You Sir, are a genius!