2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Xender]

Agree with this, they seem to of gone for the most basic elements possible, 2 minor unexciting roles with no use other than in combat...highly disappointed and will not bother taking part in the beat.

I explained here how mutlicrew should work (rather than currently announced multicrew mini game):

Telepresence may be considered as convenient solution. It allow players to join their friends instantly. It sounds reasonable when we look on Elite Dangerous world size and travel times. It is also important because multicrew is really basic and simple functionality, which doesn't sounds really interesting, so it must be really accessible to convince players to use it.

In my opinion this is extremely wrong approach, I don't know why Frontier did that, maybe they don't have money, or maybe their team is focused on PS4 version I don't know.


This is how multicrew should work in my opinion:

Players need to physically board ship of their friends in order to participate in multicrew. However whole multicrew experience should be equal to standard non-multicrew gameplay. If someone join to your ship, he should be able to pilot it, control turrets, SLFs and SRVs, of course everything depends on ship owner permissions. If someone joined to crew, even if he logout he still is a part of the crew, in that way the ship you joined is your new "home", you travel with all the time. Even if you are offline, if your friend (ship owner or assigned pilot) will move ship to another systems, you move also. Incomes from trade, missions, CZs, reputation increase everything should be shared.
Can you imagine how it will influence exploration? You may create piloting schedule, who and when piloting ship during exploration. There are so many options, so many opportunities...



If you want go back to your ship, you have two option: you can use "FSD Travel Pod" to go back to last visited system, or if you have autopilot module installed you can call your ship (travel time will be estimated in the same way as in ship transfer) and board it.

In that way multicrew become functionality equally to playing alone, thanks to that it may have more sense to play it, to spend time to meet with your friends and to participate in true multicrew adventure.


What I think about currently proposed solution? In my opinion it is kind of mini-game in a game rather than promised multicrew. Someone called it multi-pew-pew and I think it is quite good name.

 

[Sterling MH]

Agree with this, they seem to of gone for the most basic elements possible, 2 minor unexciting roles with no use other than in combat...highly disappointed and will not bother taking part in the beat.

Would you be up for Marc's proposition for engineer, then?

---HERE---^

 

[raymondo the great]

Never said it would. You asked why you couldn't.

NOTE: The quote reymondo was "replying" to there was mine in response to this post:
===
Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
We know you can't, but there is no logic to it.

Actually you specifically did say that it would remove the meaning of the game

There is. If you allow that then the meaning of game play is gone.

You don't get to pretend that you can reply to two different people about the same issue and not get picked up for what you say to one by the other! This isn't a siloed chat room! Try and at least be consistant across your posts rather than pretending you didn't say something you blatantly did....

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

If I'm honest I'm now at the point where I feel the Dev's aren't competent enough to deliver any more than the very basic; too many dropped balls and I've about lost interest, don't really play much atm.

 

[raymondo the great]

You don't.

In Elite, "You" are your ship. SC has "You" as the one sitting in the ship..

I guess someone never looked down and saw their player

I guess someone didn't know that we get ability to customise our avatar in 2.3

We are NOT our ships

currently the game simply lacks the mechanism for us to get up out of our chair because it's not implemented, not because we are melded to the ship!

You are going down the rabbit hole here at a remarkable rate.....oh look I see the mad hatter!

 

[Sterling MH]

You don't get to pretend that you can reply to two different people about the same issue...

They aren't the same issue. Different words. Different question. Different answer.

Your other post indicates you're not here to think or discuss but to complain and gish galloping. Gish gallop off to the fields, then.

 

[ITZC0ATL]

Have we got any rough guide for which ships will allow for how many players? I know the Anaconda in the lore needed about 30, so that's hardly likely. And I imagine some small ships will only allow 1 or 2.

Maybe it will be 2 for small, 3 for medium and 4 for large?

Any theories or estimates out there so far?

 

[Sterling MH]

If I'm honest I'm now at the point where I feel the Dev's aren't competent enough to deliver any more than the very basic; too many dropped balls and I've about lost interest, don't really play much atm.

Well, Marc, they didn't think your idea was worth it.

Sorry mate.

 

[starman]

So you are happy with getting nothing at all then???


Well, at least explorers aren’t losing anything, so I suppose that could be viewed as a good thing?

erm [video=youtube;hdjL8WXjlGI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdjL8WXjlGI[/video]

Also exploration data..

A Explorer rank is yours still at Harmless?

The dairy will log planets

Star system discovered by.

 

[eadghe]

As a single player I would like to see NPC crews as soon as possible with some very simple functionality, which I think wouldn't need much work to be implemented:

1. they do nothing just sit in the chairs (yes, this would already be ok for me)
2. have some simple roles like copilot (replaces autodock) or engineer (replaces AFMU with an limitless but very slow repair speed)
3. add some minor bonuses like +n% to damage for turret weapons

 

[Stryka Choon]

Then why am I flying a ship?

Why aren't we all just phoning it in from a cubicle planet-side and complaining about the new company pension policy around the watercooler?

Um, I don't know about you, but I'm sitting on my sofa in my living room, and those other Cmdrs I encounter in-game are also in their own homes, with a beer, trying to ignore the kids and real life in general - especially their pension policy.

 

[Sterling MH]

Have we got any rough guide for which ships will allow for how many players? I know the Anaconda in the lore needed about 30, so that's hardly likely

They have to have cockpit seats. Look around your cockpit and if there's a spare seat in view, a player can sit there. Since it uses the wing mechanism to control the server instancing and all that malarkey, you will only have a max of 4, and each cockpit buddy will count to the 4-person limit for wings. And I suppose if that wingmember has a cockpit buddy, that counts against the count too, or the wings method will refuse to allow a join as a wingmate. That may have to come out as to whether it works in Beta testing.

 

[Quester91]

As a single player I would like to see NPC crews as soon as possible with some very simple functionality, which I think wouldn't need much work to be implemented:

1. they do nothing just sit in the chairs (yes, this would already be ok for me)
2. have some simple roles like copilot (replaces autodock) or engineer (replaces AFMU with an limitless but very slow repair speed)
3. add some minor bonuses like +n% to damage for turret weapons

Agree, I'd be happy with that as well.

If fdevs won't fill the seats with my npcs it'll be a *huge* letdown for me.

 

[starman]

You don't.

In Elite, "You" are your ship. SC has "You" as the one sitting in the ship. In X, you don't even see "You", because you are an empire spanning many sectors and just happen to be sitting all of the time in a ship.



No. If you don't want to fly your ship, you should not have bougth a game where you fly your ship. You can go buy a new ship and remote sell the old one if you want a different ship where you are.

That's practically Philosophical! [video=youtube;CRkDicwjRQs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRkDicwjRQs[/video]

 

[Sterling MH]

As a single player I would like to see NPC crews as soon as possible with some very simple functionality, which I think wouldn't need much work to be implemented:

1. they do nothing just sit in the chairs (yes, this would already be ok for me)

That may be easy, but the rest aren't:

2. have some simple roles like copilot (replaces autodock) or engineer (replaces AFMU with an limitless but very slow repair speed)
3. add some minor bonuses like +n% to damage for turret weapons

Because first of all, your big ship has seats. Little ones don't. And it drops the usefulness of multicrew since you lose the benefit of another actual full independent ship.
Secondly, any techniques these roles can do have to be implementable by players too, otherwise you're making NPCs magic pixies able to myth stuff out of nothing. The extra pips are to bribe people to not wing up instead.
Third, those things are already taking module slots, costing money, so will NPCs cost money? And that unbalances ships since they can get a "free slot" for two things just by adding an NPC. The slot mechanic is how you balance combat ships with multirole, and them with traders.

 

[raymondo the great]

They aren't the same issue. Different words. Different question. Different answer.

Your other post indicates you're not here to think or discuss but to complain and gish galloping. Gish gallop off to the fields, then.

He said it wasn't logical

I said it wasn't logical

Different posts, same point.

If I can telepresence to your ship I should be able to do so to any other ship I own.

Doing such would not "allow the meaning of the gameplay to be gone"

Like I said, I'm not fussed which way they implement it, as long as they are consistent! I am open for discussion on which way they should consistently implement it.

You on the other hand are arguing that there should be no consistently, but not even arguing your point consistently and if anyone is gish galloping I think you just saw your reflection in a mirror.....

 

[eadghe]

That may be easy, but the rest aren't:



Because first of all, your big ship has seats. Little ones don't. And it drops the usefulness of multicrew since you lose the benefit of another actual full independent ship.
Secondly, any techniques these roles can do have to be implementable by players too, otherwise you're making NPCs magic pixies able to myth stuff out of nothing. The extra pips are to bribe people to not wing up instead.
Third, those things are already taking module slots, costing money, so will NPCs cost money? And that unbalances ships since they can get a "free slot" for two things just by adding an NPC. The slot mechanic is how you balance combat ships with multirole, and them with traders.

I wouldn't mind paying 2% of my income for an auto dock. When it comes to increased damage of turrets, this was just an idea to go along with the improved turrets one gets with a real human multi crew, but I wouldn't care if the damage stays the same. Of course little ships wouldn't get those benefits but they also don't get a fighter bay, so thats fine with me.

 

[Kaocraft]

This is likely the first iteration of multi-crew, we won't see the full thing until players actually get the ability to move around. Right now, it makes no sense to have players "physically board" each others ship. Later down the line when we can actually move our avatars it will make sense.

There are huge gameplay benefits to making crew joining instant based.

Instant crew joining works for a lot of reasons, primarily because this is a game and it is about fun. But also because it opens up a lot of future possibilities:

• Such as joining deep space expeditions
• Helping people out who are in a tough spot
• Learning the ropes of the game
• Instant "this is how you do xyz" tutorial fly-throughs
• Seeing areas of the galaxy you may never otherwise see
• Getting involved with puzzles that are separated by 10k light years (people will be able to help with the Formidine, Conflux, Hawking's Gap and Alien Ruins searches without having to choose)
• Taking a trip to Colonia to help a player or for fun

These are just a few examples - further to all of this it also allows players in deep space to experience these things.

Instant crew joining opens up the game, and offers huge amounts of opportunities to players.

As the game currently stands, without Spacelegs, there are absolutely no gameplay benefits to forcing players to physically join a ship. All it does is arbitrarily force unnecessary limitations on the game.

I'm sure all the things you ask for will become available once players can physically walk around.

Here's another example of great new gameplay instant crew-joining will allow:

http://i63.tinypic.com/28a431y.png

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-mega-thread?p=5099383&viewfull=1#post5099383

- - - Updated - - -



It seems to me, that we can't "physically meet up" until player characters can actually physically move around.

Once Frontier release the walking around update, I'm sure there will be benefits to physically joining a crew. It will make sense at that point to have two forms of multi-crew, the artificial "instant joining" with a whole bunch of limitations. And the physical joining, which will enable a player to do just about anything, including walking around the ship and walking around locations the ship lands at.

It really seems to me the instant joining vs physically joining argument is happening way to early. Players need to wait for the Spacelegs update to start making that case.

"Spacelegs" is a red herring. It's not necessary to be able to move your avatar around your ship to make interesting, varied, and deep gameplay work. You could have players doing much more interesting things than what is on offer here, and it would all work fine with canned animations or even just the SRV "fade to black" transitions between different areas. Being part of a persistent crew, with everyone "belonging" to a single ship would be amazing. Traveling to pick people up or drop them off wouldn't be a chore or "time gate" as you're so fond of calling things, because it would be a natural part of moment to moment ongoing play. At issue right now is that the multicrew experience we're getting right now is a tacked on diversion rather than a new bedrock fundamental part of the game. Multicrew as currently described does not justify travel. That's a problem with multicrew not with travel. If Frontier are unwilling or unable to build a "full" multicrew experience then I think the instantaneous drop in/drop out approach is the only viable solution. But let's not fool ourselves here: there is nothing preventing them from making genuine, real, fleshed out crew mechanics *right now*. If they're not willing or able to do it now, there is no reason to think that the addition of "spacelegs" will somehow change the situation.

 

[Canoe]

So for those of us who only play in Solo, (i.e. no Open or Group play), is there anything in the 2.3 update that benefits us? It seems as if FD are focusing primarily on pushing people to Open/Group, whereas Solo players seem to be 2nd class citizens. Genuinely curious to know whether there will be feature parity between modes. I don't see any reason why NPC AI can't be used to fulfil the roles of multi-crew..

 

[Sterling MH]

I wouldn't mind paying 2% of my income for an auto dock. When it comes to increased damage of turrets, this was just an idea to go along with the improved turrets one gets with a real human multi crew, but I wouldn't care if the damage stays the same. Of course little ships wouldn't get those benefits but they also don't get a fighter bay, so thats fine with me.

Just dock. Or fit a docking computer. If you have to give up something to fit one, that is what balance is. Making choices. If you lose one internal point you could fill with, for example, a KWS, you lose far more than 2% from the loss of extra bounties (not sure if the KWS is internal or not, but it's still illustrative if external). And you save the cost of the computer too.

And why should little ships not get the buff? Your big ship already gets the power advantage, why magic out extra power from the aether for you and not the little ship?

The real human could be flying a ship with multiple guns and its own shielding, and its own placement, so that there are no blindspots on the bigger ship they're escorting that tiny fighters can sit in and peck at the bigger ship with impunity if they have the flying skills.

Not to mention that the AI is sometimes very cheaty. Ask about railguns in NPC hands. They don't miss. So, again, you are making the NPC cheaper easier more flexible and more accurate than a player.

So it's definitely not balanced.

Hence your ideas might be simple, but so is giving every commander an "I win" button that nukes everything in the instance.