2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Sterling MH]

I'm going to repeat what I suggested earlier

And I'd repeat what I said about it, but it's still there to read for the dev team, so saying it twice isn't going to make it any more said.

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone seems to be talking telepresence but have FD actually given that as an in game explanation?
Why does there need to be an in game 'lore' explanation? Just enable it as a straightforward game mechanic.

Each multi crew capable ship can have an NPC - I personally have no issue with a real life player taking on that role whether or not the commander already has NPCs in place. It doesn't need to be explained in game lore, it's just a member of a potential crew you can have being fulfilled by a real life player somewhere.

I don't think that all should get the maximum monetary rewards, it should be split.

I would say it doesn't even matter. If you aren't getting what you want, and want to use telepresence here to justify it, then you can be refused because the dev team see a reason why it wont work and that's what they say (cf "they say they're DEAD") and you're STILL SOL.

 

[KING5TON]

I see a few posts of people defending the current setup of gunner and fighter pilot because everyone will want to be the captain and no one will want to be the navigator etc...

Can I just point out this -> http://store.steampowered.com/app/252870/ (Pulsar Lost Colony)
Or This http://artemis.eochu.com/ (Artemis Bridge Sim)

Two space ship games where people play roles other than the captain and because the various roles are fun people are more than willing to play them.

Sure if FD only gave someone control over pip management it would be boring but that's not a good excuse for it. Making the roles interesting by developing interesting game play (like wot those two games I linked do) is the way to go.

The current mechanics smack to me of cheap development. Recycling existing stuff for a new update. Again.

 

[Sterling MH]

When I saw multicrews were coming, I was really hoping that we would be actually taking other players somewhere, not just an avatar of them while they remained in whatever station they were docked in.

Why? They get a sidewinder from the Pilots Federation. Why sit in the cargo hold or passenger cabin if you've installed them, maybe requiring their own life support, for you to drive them when they can drive themselves after the PF rep signs them off the contract clauses for being a member?

 

[Ian Phillips]

I see a few posts of people defending the current setup of gunner and fighter pilot because everyone will want to be the captain and no one will want to be the navigator etc...

Can I just point out this -> http://store.steampowered.com/app/252870/ (Pulsar Lost Colony)
Or This http://artemis.eochu.com/ (Artemis Bridge Sim)

Two space ship games where people play roles other than the captain and because the various roles are fun people are more than willing to play them.

Sure if FD only gave someone control over pip management it would be boring but that's not a good excuse for it. Making the roles interesting by developing interesting game play (like wot those two games I linked do) is the way to go.

The current mechanics smack to me of cheap development. Recycling existing stuff for a new update. Again.

Having played Artemis I can agree with your comments about it being a fun game.

Having not played Multi Crew, I do wonder where you get your expertise from? (I don't agree with your opinion because you have - literally - no idea how its going to play)

 

[Sterling MH]

I see a few posts of people defending the current setup of gunner and fighter pilot because everyone will want to be the captain and no one will want to be the navigator etc...

Can I just point out this -> http://store.steampowered.com/app/252870/ (Pulsar Lost Colony)
Or This http://artemis.eochu.com/ (Artemis Bridge Sim)

Two space ship games where people play roles other than the captain and because the various roles are fun people are more than willing to play them.

Play those, then.

If they don't have the bubble economy, the pvp,the 400 billion stars, etc, then what they did was produce a game designed around those things, and missed out on things like exploring or mining or whatever.

The multicrew is going to get expanded on. Just like the base game was. If you want to complain it's not all done at roll-out, if FD obey your exhortations, we have StarCitizen, where it'll be a few years off, any day now.

 

[MarcusKross]

Combat centric, one less seat than originally told, no helm transfer, no npc crew, no srv action with the crew, magical unicorn magic teleport, hugely exploitable reward and punishment system etc etc.

Didn't expect miracles but i couldn't have anticipated that it will be this lackluster and bad.

 

[KING5TON]

Having played Artemis I can agree with your comments about it being a fun game.

Having not played Multi Crew, I do wonder where you get your expertise from? (I don't agree with your opinion because you have - literally - no idea how its going to play)

Yes we do, The dev update details the roles. Helm will play the same as always, Fighter pilot will play the same as fighters normally do. Turret control may be a little different but it can't be that different just shooting the turrets.

My point was a rebuff to the people claiming there was no point adding in roles such as engineering, navigation because no one will play them, my point is that they will as long as the game play there.

- - - Updated - - -

Play those, then.

If they don't have the bubble economy, the pvp,the 400 billion stars, etc, then what they did was produce a game designed around those things, and missed out on things like exploring or mining or whatever.

The multicrew is going to get expanded on. Just like the base game was. If you want to complain it's not all done at roll-out, if FD obey your exhortations, we have StarCitizen, where it'll be a few years off, any day now.

I do play them.

Sure they are different games that do certain things not as well as ED and other things better than ED. My point was a rebuff to people claiming that no one will want to play roles such as engineering etc... and I pointed out that those game have these types of roles and people like to play them as the roles are well developed.

I have no faith that multicrew will be expanded on, your taking that on blind faith. FD have never expanded on any update they've added so I don't know why you'd think they suddenly will with MC.

 

[DMaster]

Psst...Wings.....

Psst....i now...see page 52 ;-)

EDIT: 53, this moves to fast

 

[Ignition]

Multicrew... yet another way to interact with the lack of actual GAME.

Agree man HAHAHA.

 

[Sterling MH]

Sure they are different games that do certain things not as well as ED and other things better than ED.

And that was mine. Those games had most or all their time spent around making the cockpit work. A full game. With other things thrown out because there's only so much a single game can fit in in developer time.

My point was a rebuff to people claiming that no one will want to play roles such as engineering etc... and I pointed out that those game have these types of roles and people like to play them as the roles are well developed.

But that still means that 2.3 would have had to redesign all their systems to do this, so that there was the same thing to do in your ships in Elite as these have. And can you operate without all of them? If not, they need multiple players and then only Solo doesn't demand team matching play. With them, there needs an entire AI engine to operate them. And if they're not manned, then you can only fly single seaters without them. Do they have single seaters? Are they compatible in PvP with the multiseaters?

The point is that those are entire games. What you've done so far is say "Do that" and point to another game. That's a better start than even Marc had, but still pretty empty. Do I have to play them to know what you're talking about? Is the mechanics of flight or control or combat compatible, or were those designed around a multi-seat cockpit game?

The point is that to your "Here's a game that gives you a good engineers' station experience" can be answered, as I did, with "Go play that". It's a different game? Yeah. Your point?

I can point you to how poorly the game can play with them by pointing you to I-War, the first one, they learned their lesson in I-War2 and dropped the command stations' roles.

Because unless you design the game right, those roles are not playable.

I have no faith that multicrew will be expanded on, your taking that on blind faith. FD have never expanded on any update they've added so I don't know why you'd think they suddenly will with MC.

OK, but then you negate your own post, since you're supposing that this is it and everything is done, never to be changed.

If that's your opinion, you had no purpose in posting.

 

[MagicPuncher]

I'd love to see a tractor beam turret that crew could operate to very quickly grab ore from mining. I know they don't like the idea of tractor beams but.... get over it.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

I see a few posts of people defending the current setup of gunner and fighter pilot because everyone will want to be the captain and no one will want to be the navigator etc...

Can I just point out this -> http://store.steampowered.com/app/252870/ (Pulsar Lost Colony)
Or This http://artemis.eochu.com/ (Artemis Bridge Sim)

Two space ship games where people play roles other than the captain and because the various roles are fun people are more than willing to play them.

Sure if FD only gave someone control over pip management it would be boring but that's not a good excuse for it. Making the roles interesting by developing interesting game play (like wot those two games I linked do) is the way to go.

The current mechanics smack to me of cheap development. Recycling existing stuff for a new update. Again.

Arguably the best asset in the game is the galaxy itself, and this is extremely underused. Exploration has almost none existent gameplay which amounts to nothing more than jump and scan. It's a testament to the quality of the galaxy, that so many people still enjoy exploration regardless. Yet update after update Frontier do not flesh out exploration or offer greater depth of gameplay.

The story is true right across the board, from trading to mining. From the lack of wing missions, to poorly executed smuggling.

The problem with multi-crew has long been foreseen hasn't it (and I seem to remember you pointing this out a year or more ago). Without a complex game with deep gameplay, anything added on top cannot amount to much.

Multi-crew, by the very nature of the current game can only be a shallow experience. There are no deep mechanics to hook into for multi-crew to bring benefits to trading, exploration, mining, smuggling, pirating, deep space rescue or indeed anything else. There are no roles beyond "gunner" that Frontier can possibly offer...simply because they have not fleshed out the rest of the game.

I still have hopes that one day, Frontier will bring their attention back to each career path and make then deep and involving experiences. Again, it's a testament to the galaxy itself that these limited shallow careers hold any water at all. Imagine the same gameplay we currently have but limited to 2 or 3 star systems! The scale of the galaxy goes a long way to hide the games lack of depth. Yet with multi-crew it has become glaringly apparent.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game. I'm always grateful for what Frontier have provided here, it's been an experience unlike any other game for me. And I am also keenly aware of just how much the people at Frontier love this game. I know first hand that they have extremely deep passion for Elite. At times, it's possible to see that the problem with Elite isn't really with the developers themselves, but rather that they appear to have their hands tied, and are given extremely limited resources. And that really does come back to your last point about the game being done with limited resources. I've no idea if that is actually true - but it certainly feels that way.

 

[PyrateLV]

I was going to make a long winded comment about how a game Expansion (Season) called HORIZONS is starting to become more focused on Combat related features and less on Universal Exploration and Planetary Landings stuff, but then realized that it doesnt matter what my opinion is, the Frontier Devs will develop this game as they see fit. As all Game Development Companies do.
Im just here for the ride. I can either enjoy it for what it is, or I can get off.

*Sorry, but as a new player I bought the game because of HORIZONS and the fact that it looked like it was moving more towards Non-Combat activities, what with Planetary Landings and the talk of Character Creator and Avatars.

I guess its still primarily a Space Combat game

 

[Sterling MH]

Lets see how this could work out.

Multi crew is in with these roles and gameplay. It gets an easy start for new users (PS4 release).

Then the actions for how scanning occurs is upgraded, and this is for single users in the cockpit. And when that's rolled out, your multicrew crewmate can run that just the same as you could, only now you can concentrate on other things, like piloting.

Alternatively, they do the work and you find that your working overload has now gone up and you can't deal with it as well any more, and wish that you could get the AI to just do this for you, since you haven't got a way to get another player to operate this new mechanic for you.

And that will remain until they roll out 3.4: Multi-Crew.

Which scenario seems better?

As long as the new scanning stuff is simple (therefore boring or shallow), then the second one, you get some new toys to play with as an explorer (traders and combat people get mad, though, nothing for them). But if the game mechanic is engrossing and fulfilling, it will be too much to fly and scan at the same time, and you'd want the former.

So which would we hope would come from FD on a new explorer gameplay mechanism? Shallow or impressive?

 

[raymondo the great]

I see a few posts of people defending the current setup of gunner and fighter pilot because everyone will want to be the captain and no one will want to be the navigator etc...

Can I just point out this -> http://store.steampowered.com/app/252870/ (Pulsar Lost Colony)
Or This http://artemis.eochu.com/ (Artemis Bridge Sim)

Two space ship games where people play roles other than the captain and because the various roles are fun people are more than willing to play them.

Sure if FD only gave someone control over pip management it would be boring but that's not a good excuse for it. Making the roles interesting by developing interesting game play (like wot those two games I linked do) is the way to go.

The current mechanics smack to me of cheap development. Recycling existing stuff for a new update. Again.

I am one of these people you appear to be directing your post too.

That Pulsar? To me looks like a steaming pile of horse manure I wouldn't touch with a 10ft barge pole! Now maybe the game isn't as bad as it looks, but from it's own advertising it sure doesn't look compelling or interesting to me to be the engineer or wot not, and if it's own advertising doesn't show it looking good I'm not going to spend the next hour looking at random tubers trying to see something in it that you are referencing in this post.

If you like a way it does something just spell it out, but from it's store page.....nah!

As for Artemis....another making such a big splash I as a keen gamer had never heard of it... and another store page that does little to sell it to me! Massive walls of text - devs need to learn what paragraphs are! - and I can't see a single picture of what the game looks like!

The game info page gives next to no info on what is done in game "helm" and "weapons" both sound like exactly what I do when I'm flying any ship already in Elite! As does the engineer!


The problem with this is simple - Right now I can fly my ship on my own. And I will still be able to do so after this update. Now reading that artimis page that is not the case in that "game" is it?

Multicrew would make a huge difference if say right now pips were evenly balanced, and you had to have an engineer to alter the pips, but we don't need an engineer to do that! Nor do I need a gunner to fire my fixed/gimballed weapons etc etc.

In short - neither of these links provide what I would call compelling or interesting gameplay which would be a good edition to Elite or an obvious improvement on the multi-crew expansion coming based on the limited info we have about it.

 

[Ignition]

I'd love to see a tractor beam turret that crew could operate to very quickly grab ore from mining. I know they don't like the idea of tractor beams but.... get over it.

A mining director crew

Has the ability to see different ores on an asteroid with a UI which shows the ores with different colors.
Operates the Drill and checks the pressure of the rock so it doesnt shatter and damage the ship, the drill needs to be set tothe correct rpm depending to ore to be extracted.
Can launch smaller drilling ships or ore collectors for one pilot (another crew members)
Can operate probes to scan large sectors of a belt to identify where are the concentrated ores.
Can process the ores, each one with a slighty different precess, rare ores are much more difficult to process.

Oh man, the possibilities of this game... HAHAHA and we have a "gunner" pew pew.

 

[MagicPuncher]

As for Artemis....another making such a big splash I as a keen gamer had never heard of it... and another store page that does little to sell it to me! Massive walls of text - devs need to learn what paragraphs are! - and I can't see a single picture of what the game looks like!

I've heard of Artemis. I thought it was pretty well known among scifi game fans. The graphics are SUPER simple. The game itself seems more like a proof of concept. I think a better example might be the upcoming Star Trek: Bridge Crew. I haven't played it myself, but it seems like they have made every station fun. The problem for Frontier is, how would they make stations like engineering and navigation fun, without making them so necessary that you can't play without them (solo).

 

[Xender]

Arguably the best asset in the game is the galaxy itself, and this is extremely underused. Exploration has almost none existent gameplay which amounts to nothing more than jump and scan. It's a testament to the quality of the galaxy, that so many people still enjoy exploration regardless. Yet update after update Frontier do not flesh out exploration or offer greater depth of gameplay.

The story is true right across the board, from trading to mining. From the lack of wing missions, to poorly executed smuggling.

The problem with multi-crew has long been foreseen hasn't it (and I seem to remember you pointing this out a year or more ago). Without a complex game with deep gameplay, anything added on top cannot amount to much.

Multi-crew, by the very nature of the current game can only be a shallow experience. There are no deep mechanics to hook into for multi-crew to bring benefits to trading, exploration, mining, smuggling, pirating, deep space rescue or indeed anything else. There are no roles beyond "gunner" that Frontier can possibly offer...simply because they have not fleshed out the rest of the game.

I still have hopes that one day, Frontier will bring their attention back to each career path and make then deep and involving experiences. Again, it's a testament to the galaxy itself that these limited shallow careers hold any water at all. Imagine the same gameplay we currently have but limited to 2 or 3 star systems! The scale of the galaxy goes a long way to hide the games lack of depth. Yet with multi-crew it has become glaringly apparent.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game. I'm always grateful for what Frontier have provided here, it's been an experience unlike any other game for me. And I am also keenly aware of just how much the people at Frontier love this game. I know first hand that they have extremely deep passion for Elite. At times, it's possible to see that the problem with Elite isn't really with the developers themselves, but rather that they appear to have their hands tied, and are given extremely limited resources. And that really does come back to your last point about the game being done with limited resources. I've no idea if that is actually true - but it certainly feels that way.

What about interesting ideas for exploration and multicrew I have one:
If you can board physically the ship (even without space leggs). You should be able to stay on that ship even when you logoff. That this great opportunity for making exploration more cooperative. Just think about it. You planned to travel to Sag A* with your friends. So you joined all together on one ship and started the voyage. At some points your friends need to logoff but you still want to play. There is on problem, because even when they are online they still traveling with you (they just went to their crew quarters). Next day when you are offline, they started play earlier and they continue journey until you login.

Next thing worth to consider will be Ship Launched Recon Vehicles. Equipped with very small FSD, advanced sensors, unarmed explorer ship. Just imagine that possibility to deploy your friends and all of you searching for something interesting in system.
Of course that kind of ships shouldn't be able to jump between systems, only in-system Super Cruise should be allowed.

Everything of this should be achievable quite easily without Space Legs. Just simple multicrew with some addition. Think about it and how amazing it will be to explore galaxy in that way. When I think about exploration, I have Mass Effect 1 surface missions in my mind, just imagine that you and your friends in Mako vehicle (or big SRV). Of course it could be even better with space legs, but assume that we doesn't consider this feature right now...

Please guys and girls , please force Frontier to introduce multicrew gameplay proposed by me....

Having played Artemis I can agree with your comments about it being a fun game.

Having not played Multi Crew, I do wonder where you get your expertise from? (I don't agree with your opinion because you have - literally - no idea how its going to play)

It is quite easy to judge 2.3 multicrew even now, because as Frontier mentioned in description it will extremely simple and shallow addition to the game. It is clear that we have another layer of extremely simplified gameplay.

 

[MagicPuncher]

A mining director crew

Has the ability to see different ores on an asteroid with a UI which shows the ores with different colors.
Operates the Drill and checks the pressure of the rock so it doesnt shatter and damage the ship, the drill needs to be set tothe correct rpm depending to ore to be extracted.
Can launch smaller drilling ships or ore collectors for one pilot (another crew members)
Can operate probes to scan large sectors of a belt to identify where are the concentrated ores.
Can process the ores, each one with a slighty different precess, rare ores are much more difficult to process.

Oh man, the possibilities of this game... HAHAHA and we have a "gunner" pew pew.

Amen. Not to start a flame war, but what you described is almost exactly the design doc for Star Citizen mining... But just like Elite, we'll see if the gameplay actually matches the design doc. If I remember right, Elite's original pitch for mining was much more involved than it ended up being.

 

[slothman320]

I was hoping to see an engineering person who would deal with damaged modules, having a repair interface to accelerate the repairs and rebooting of modules. It would give combat pilots more reason to bring a FRM. It'd also be nice if they were able to adjust shield emitters like in the old X wing games.
This is a start but I really hope this goes more places than nowhere. I don't want this to be a cheap gimmick and would like to see a lot more depth brought to this mechanic.