2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

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Surely a major point of exploration is the travel? I doubt very much if I, or others, would claim to be an explorer if I/they instant traveled everywhere.

Well, seeings as to what the nature of these roles are, and the fact that this looks to be, by and large, yet just another combat-specific function (unless you want to man the shields on my ship because I'm getting close to belly-flopping on a high-g world and could use someone to throw me an extra shield pip so I don't break anything), Explorers have little to gain, except perhaps a break from their isolation to play some pew-pew with a friend on the other side of the galaxy so they don't go space mad. It's not as if I can sit on my duff in Asellus Prime, crew with an explorer out on the other side of the galaxy and actually gain any cartographic data to sell. Sure, I can see what it looks like out there, but I can't do anything with it.

Likewise, the benefit to submit-and-run or beat-the-interdiction traders is also minimal, with the exception of giving them a break from the stench of 400+ tons of biowaste in their holds to pew-pew some pirates.

That is, unless taking a crew role can be used as a means to bail out of a potential encounter. See my previous question/concern.
 
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Can you please tell me then what happens without telepresence when the owner of the ship logs off with everyone on board being left stranded.

Do they gain ownership of the ship?
Do they reappear at the last station, where you docked? (Instant transfer)
Do they get locked in a limbo state, waiting for the owner to log back on?

I guessing that most will go with the same explanation of how you transport 60,000 Lys back to a station when you ship gets destroyed on the other side of the galaxy.

Hmm, new term multi-play logging - where the commander of the ship logs off with people aboard.
I say deal with the exception and put people back to their own ships (docked in a station as they transferred through the crew lounge), and shadow ban the commander that logged.

Alternatively, send everyone to the rebuy screen, for their share of ship destruction. The commander that logged goes there when he comes back into game. Oh and shadow ban him/her.

Simon
 
In general though...I think your concerns are overall legitimate, timely, relevant concerns. I too worry the game is chasing a "latest new buzz" demographic.

Elite is turning into a retro style hero-based base-building FPS MOBA roguelike featuring zombies or extreme survival and RNG micro-transactions?

I had no idea. Must have missed that developer update. Last I read they were just making it easier for friends to play together without wasting hours of everyone's time. Unless by "latest new buzz" you mean a feature that has practically been standard in co-op and PvP games since 1996.
 
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I do have one question maybe I can get answered:

What happens to our ships if we opt to join a crew? Or can we only join a crew when docked?

By the sounds of it, it's the same thing that happens to your ship when you play CQC. It almost sounds like a feature off the main menu.
 
How does this harm exploration? You just showed me scenario where a person who would never go to Sag A sees Sag A...they could also see it about 1,000 times on YouTube from every perspective from any ship.

You can still travel to Sag A...its not like these people come and vandalize it or something. People who like exploration don't necessarily seek Sag A other than it being a rite of passage or pilgrimage. Exploration is about seeing everything else and putting your epeen flag on it all.

Just thinking out loud... No real point.

I'd seen Sag A* on YouTube, but that actually made me want to see it myself, so I flew out there.
Seeing something on YouTube and in game is a bit different, depending on your mindset.
Just like seeing the Pyramids of Giza on TV is nothing like being there.

Just sayin'.
 
In regards to instant Commander teleportation for Multicrews:

It's completely immersion breaking and destroys the unique grand sense of scale of the ED setting.

Players already need to meet up to do Wing activity together, and I don't see that being a complained about as a chore to achieve; so why would meeting up to form a crew be any different practically?

It actually is a massive chore. I routinely get invited to wings and decline because it's just not worth going more than 20 jumps. Our schedules won't allow for it, I'm gonna be spending 20 or 30 minutes getting there and by the time I get there we only have 30 minutes to play. This is not an argument for changing it, but to argue that it isn't a obstacle for some players is wrong.

I already play with my friends in Wings, and the same friends will be each other's multicrew too. We're already hanging out in the same volumes of space. This teleportation feature will be used by non-Winging players maybe only once or twice, as a complete gimmick, yet the damage to the setting's scale is already done. Those who want teleportation to support their mindless sugar-rush insta-combat gameplay (besides already having CQC/Arena), will be gone to the next flavour of the month game anyway.

Magical insta-teleportation for crew utterly devalues the intangible (but magical) quality of feeling like you're really journeying in space with your friends.

I doubt the gaming press / media will ever again bother covering the "magic and wonder" of ED's huge Exploration voyages, since it won't exist anymore.

Space Engine will be the go-to application for anyone wanting to explore the Galaxy using simple "console command" shortcuts.

For the first paragraph, I'll come back to that.

Most of this comes off as nebulous sentiment about the perceived scale of the universe, and overreaction to me. I can't really argue to your beliefs about the size of the galaxy, but I can argue to the points about the consequences. You seem to be convinced, for example, that exploration expeditions will go away. Why? I don't imagine things like Distant Worlds drying up overnight. It wouldn't make sense. There's a lot of people out there, dedicated explorers, who will still want to get out there and explore for themselves. A lot of people will want to make it to Beagle Point because they wanted to make it out there themselves. A lot of people will want to go out and wander aimlessly for the sake of seeing new sights and sounds, and finding something nobody else ever has. This will never go away just because some people have the option of teleporting to their friend's ship.

Your insinuation that the people who enjoy this kind of gameplay will disappear overnight is a personal insult to their dedication, and totally baseless.

Lots of people (probably the same people who chase fast-credit exploits), are screaming for instant-teleportation to make sugar-rush combat as easy as pressing a button, but have FD considered that the degradation of the scale of the setting will wipe away an element of the game that is difficult to pin down in terms of specific mechanics, namely the overall emotional feel of the game?

I fear FD are chasing a demographic with these arcade design choices, that has no interest in the setting, but rather are the sorts of players who only hang around for 5 minutes after an update anyway, before they go off to the next sugary buzz. The sort of player that is not interested in the journey, or exploring the depth that ED has to offer, but rather wants higher credits per hour so they can race to the "end" ship and hurriedly "beat" the game.

Basically the worry is that FD is chasing the money of arcade players who will simply be gone again after they've exhausted their initial novelty buzz of consuming new content, then leaving the core players of the game with a unsatisfying, stripped back, bland "ease of access" focused casual game.

Instant Teleportation is simply Instant Gratification.

Those who want Instant Gratification will not be gratified by the content after 3 or 4 goes of the ride, they will leave to find Instant Gratification from somewhere else.

When I play co-op we work together to navigate distances as a team, we travel across space for our gameplay purposes in concert. Managing our time and appreciating the scale of the setting is part of the tactical-strategic layer that we play in - having meaningful restrictions, limiters and tensions in our gameplay is GOOD as it demands creative thinking and more than just an arcade style point and click unthinking approach to play.

More baseless accusations. I don't like using fast cash exploits personally, it feels cheap to me. (Although I don't hold anything against the players who use them; it is the responsibility of the developers to patch exploits, not the players to not use them, and just because somebody is playing the game in a way that I don't want to doesn't mean that it should be my way or the highway. It's their game that they bought with their money, if they want to play the game differently from me I need to respect that.)

Let's return to the point I dismissed earlier. The idea that this is catering to the instant gratification crowd. Problem with this argument is that Elite: Dangerous was never an instant gratification game to begin with. The type of people you're worried about jumping ship? Don't worry, they weren't going to stick around to begin with. Those types of people probably abandoned the game years ago. Even with this new multicrew feature there's still going to be large swaths of gameplay where nothing happens, and this will not help those kinds of people. And maybe some of those people will want to eventually get their own killer ship, meaning they will jump out of their buddy's cockpit and venture among the stars on their own. This argument about the instant gratification boogeyman is chasing shadows. It's a nonissue.

The rest of your post is just retreading your personal conviction that the universe is huge and full of wonder, while ignoring that this feature will not destroy this for you or any of the players who care about it in any way whatsoever, so I'm cutting it off here. Someone you never met teleported to Beagle Point because their buddy wanted to show them what it looked like in person. Big deal, I fail to see how this will destroy the scale of the universe for you. Maybe you're worried that you will be tempted to do it yourself, that's the only conceivable way that this will impact you and your playstyle.
 
So what! If a person makes this choice how does it affect you? The accomplishment is the journey not the destination. If a person is satisfied with using multicrew to see something quick and decides they don't need to go anymore then they weren't ever going to make the trip in the first place... and this still doesn't affect you.

It is in open - if I am in the same instance we have guns out at each other, it very much affects me.

Simon
 
So its a feature that does nothing to encourage exploration.

Actually, I'd say it does. Just the thought of being able to share some of the great sights out there with my less patient friends is already encouraging me to head to the outer rim.
 
To explorers on this thread complaining. To mostly anyone complaining:

We do not know the fuyll extent of this update yet. this entire thread is extremely premature. Pretty mcuh all said here is speculation. its not a feedback thread its literally a speculation thread.


This entire thread was started by a moderator to clean up the multitude of threads on the same topic, and stated it's where devs will be gathering feedback.
 
It actually is a massive chore. I routinely get invited to wings and decline because it's just not worth going more than 20 jumps. Our schedules won't allow for it, I'm gonna be spending 20 or 30 minutes getting there and by the time I get there we only have 30 minutes to play. This is not an argument for changing it, but to argue that it isn't a obstacle for some players is wrong.



For the first paragraph, I'll come back to that.

Most of this comes off as nebulous sentiment about the perceived scale of the universe, and overreaction to me. I can't really argue to your beliefs about the size of the galaxy, but I can argue to the points about the consequences. You seem to be convinced, for example, that exploration expeditions will go away. Why? I don't imagine things like Distant Worlds drying up overnight. It wouldn't make sense. There's a lot of people out there, dedicated explorers, who will still want to get out there and explore for themselves. A lot of people will want to make it to Beagle Point because they wanted to make it out there themselves. A lot of people will want to go out and wander aimlessly for the sake of seeing new sights and sounds, and finding something nobody else ever has. This will never go away just because some people have the option of teleporting to their friend's ship.

Your insinuation that the people who enjoy this kind of gameplay will disappear overnight is a personal insult to their dedication, and totally baseless.



More baseless accusations. I don't like using fast cash exploits personally, it feels cheap to me. (Although I don't hold anything against the players who use them; it is the responsibility of the developers to patch exploits, not the players to not use them, and just because somebody is playing the game in a way that I don't want to doesn't mean that it should be my way or the highway. It's their game that they bought with their money, if they want to play the game differently from me I need to respect that.)

Let's return to the point I dismissed earlier. The idea that this is catering to the instant gratification crowd. Problem with this argument is that Elite: Dangerous was never an instant gratification game to begin with. The type of people you're worried about jumping ship? Don't worry, they weren't going to stick around to begin with. Those types of people probably abandoned the game years ago. Even with this new multicrew feature there's still going to be large swaths of gameplay where nothing happens, and this will not help those kinds of people. And maybe some of those people will want to eventually get their own killer ship, meaning they will jump out of their buddy's cockpit and venture among the stars on their own. This argument about the instant gratification boogeyman is chasing shadows. It's a nonissue.

The rest of your post is just retreading your personal conviction that the universe is huge and full of wonder, while ignoring that this feature will not destroy this for you or any of the players who care about it in any way whatsoever, so I'm cutting it off here. Someone you never met teleported to Beagle Point because their buddy wanted to show them what it looked like in person. Big deal, I fail to see how this will destroy the scale of the universe for you. Maybe you're worried that you will be tempted to do it yourself, that's the only conceivable way that this will impact you and your playstyle.

There is a whole bunch of new insta-content people out there, only 2.01 million units sold - plenty more buyers to appeal to.

As my post history today shows, I for one will quite likely have to quit the game if 2.3 goes to press as with the feature as described. This is tele-presence too far, and very bad for open mode.

My time and money, my choice. Oh and I hate exploring the sights of the galaxy - 300LY to the Pleiades my limit before space madness takes over.

Simon
 
Really not sure how I feel about this update. To be honest I'm a little disappointed there is no systems/navigation officer - it makes the main feature seem very hallow.

It would have seemed just as hollow if you were the one made nav officer, trust me on that.
 
To explorers on this thread complaining. To mostly anyone complaining:

We do not know the fuyll extent of this update yet. this entire thread is extremely premature. Pretty mcuh all said here is speculation. its not a feedback thread its literally a speculation thread.

Eh, we pretty much know. If multicrew had encompassed more than just combat for 2.3 then Frontier would have eagerly told us all about it.

Tell you what, if Frontier manages to get a non-combat seat shoehorned into multicrew before 2.3 goes live then I will buy a new ship skin from the store! I have no issue rewarding consideration with my hard earned money! I’d consider that a win and would smile from ear to ear as I paid Frontier more money!
 
Just thinking out loud... No real point.

I'd seen Sag A* on YouTube, but that actually made me want to see it myself, so I flew out there.
Seeing something on YouTube and in game is a bit different, depending on your mindset.
Just like seeing the Pyramids of Giza on TV is nothing like being there.

Just sayin'.

Some people like sightseeing and don't like the travel. Instant multi-crew allows a lot of players to see things they otherwise will never see. Some players simply don't like long term journeys, but with 2.3 they will briefly be allowed to look. Also deep space exploration is lonely, nothing wrong with a bit of instant company, it certainly won't harm the game.

I agree with you, why should this ability be locked away from them.
 
Just thinking out loud... No real point.

I'd seen Sag A* on YouTube, but that actually made me want to see it myself, so I flew out there.
Seeing something on YouTube and in game is a bit different, depending on your mindset.
Just like seeing the Pyramids of Giza on TV is nothing like being there.

Just sayin'.

Not sure if this is the point you're making but to abuse an obvious cliche:

It's about the journey not the destination. So if it's important to people they'll still make the journey to Sag A*. Others who weren't going to make that trip before may change their mind after seeing it as a crew.
 
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Eh, we pretty much know. If multicrew had encompassed more than just combat for 2.3 then Frontier would have eagerly told us all about it.

Tell you what, if Frontier manages to get a non-combat seat shoehorned into multicrew before 2.3 goes live then I will buy a new ship skin from the store! I have no issue rewarding consideration with my hard earned money! I’d consider that a win and would smile from ear to ear as I paid Frontier more money!

The external camera for the gunner role could be very useful for exploration surface scanning. It's certainly not an "exploration role", but could be used as such.
 
I have no issue with the instant teleporting across the cosmos. Well, no actually I do, but to me that's a small concern. To me the issues are that Multi-pew is just about as cheap and lazy an addition to the game as people feared.
 
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