2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[Dbrn47]

Oh season 2 has started??

It sure did!

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I've recently had a rather bonkers-mad, crazy - potentially revolutionary - idea.

I will try out the new feature(s). If I enjoy them, I will use them. If I don't enjoy them, I won't use them.

Either way I will carry on enjoying the game as it is.

At what point do you reach critical mass on features you don't use though? If you never say anything you might very well 'not use' yourself out of the game. It's not as if they don't want the feedback anyway. On the other hand, we can always just not use the forum if the content becomes too redundant. Just a thought, not particularly revolutionary.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Must say, I too am not sure about this multiplying rewards.

I guess it stems from not wanting to punish drivers for opening up to multicrew, hmmm.

I's like I said...I think the devs are desperate to get people to interact with other humans in a meaningful way so as to keep up with the idea of this being an open social galaxy. The thing is, most of the players are just people who want to fly their ships, and occasionally say hey to another pilot. It would not shock me anymore if thing like CG bonus' were given for participating in Open, or other perks and buffs and enticements to try and lure people to be MMO style social...

 

[knowles2]

Oh season 2 has started??

Yes it has, an it awesome.

no spoilers but that was a shocker of a ending there.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

This thread

- one person complains about imbalance for ships with multiple crew vs those without (while ignoring wings exist)
- another complains that it's unfair large ships are effectively getting a power boost (ignoring they have multiple players onboard and again pretending wings don't exist)
- another wants npc crew (that will give large ships manned by a single player a power boost)
- another wants people to have to meet to do multicrew
- another complains no-one will use multicrew (while others suggest barriers to multicrew to stop people using it)
- another complains this feature "is not for them" implying they will leave
- another says the whole feature is a waste of development time
- another wants a much more complex solution that would increase development time
- and others have nothing good to say about anything ever

To be fair with regards to how Wings fits into this discussion here...everybody expects a wing of ships to be more powerful than a single ship, because well, multiple ships...that is just common sense. Where the issue comes in is the arbitrary things that are being tried to make a single ship with multiple humans as powerful and appealing to do as multiple ships.

 

[Sterling MH]

Where the issue comes in is the arbitrary things that are being tried to make a single ship with multiple humans as powerful and appealing to do as multiple ships.

Why? The changes don't manage that. It's more powerful than a single ship but not as powerful as two of them. Even with three people on board.

 

[Kastor]

To be fair with regards to how Wings fits into this discussion here...everybody expects a wing of ships to be more powerful than a single ship, because well, multiple ships...that is just common sense. Where the issue comes in is the arbitrary things that are being tried to make a single ship with multiple humans as powerful and appealing to do as multiple ships.

Meanwhile basic multiplayer game logic dictates that more players working together are stronger than one, regardless of other factors. This is to apease the base multiplayer ideal of Teamwork.

It's just common (game) sence.

 

[Junky Juke]

Hey guys I dont want to bleed my eyes through 90 pages of this thread. Is the eventual AFK exploit being discussed here? It would be a mess if FDevs deployed the 2.3 without a counter measure, like not getting the coins or automatically being kicked out of the crew because of prolonged inactivity.

 

[Krieger]

+Rep Feel the same way

Just this afternoon two friends had to spend 10+ minutes each jumping to my location to get some co-op / wing bounty hunting in. That's why I wish they would let us choose which of our ships we spawn in when we boot up the game - would allow me to go exploring when I'm alone, but quickly join the guys for bounty hunting when they're around.

I'm getting old, I know, but I'm intrigued by your comment. How can 10-15 minutes be a problem? If you play in sessions no longer than 30 minutes then I would understand. In my case, my average sessions are 2-3 hrs. 10-15 minutes initial travel time would be fine. The anticipation of meeting the others and the fun to come after that would be enough for me to make the 10+ minutes trip enjoyable. And... it would keep my illusion intact of living in a (game) universe where causality prevails.

 

[steevaavoo]

It sure did!

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At what point do you reach critical mass on features you don't use though? If you never say anything you might very well 'not use' yourself out of the game. It's not as if they don't want the feedback anyway. On the other hand, we can always just not use the forum if the content becomes too redundant. Just a thought, not particularly revolutionary.

Fortunately I enjoy enough of the existing features that I don't risk reaching a critical mass of features I don't use. Plus I think there are plenty of people who will enjoy features that I dont.

On the feedback front I totally agree - I tend to assume that there is no such thing as "negative" feedback - though sometimes the presentation can be rather gloomy. I'll certainly give feedback once I see the implementation of the new feature in Beta and get a feel for how it works (or doesn't work!). Until then though I'd just be speculating on another person's description.

So perhaps my initial comment was a little light on detail, giving a more flippant impression of my attitude.

Also very glad to hear Expanse S2 is out!

 

[bitstorm]

To be fair with regards to how Wings fits into this discussion here...everybody expects a wing of ships to be more powerful than a single ship, because well, multiple ships...that is just common sense. Where the issue comes in is the arbitrary things that are being tried to make a single ship with multiple humans as powerful and appealing to do as multiple ships.

Sorry but there have been claims that a ship with multiple players means people will get griefed more, you say "everybody expects" and "common sense" but it's clear from some of the complaints that it's not common sense for some people and not everybody expects.

But you're saying it's a realism thing?

 

[Valorin]

I don't like being transported to another's ship asap regardless of distance. You can escape the lonely feeling of exploration with the push of a button. Distance should always be an obstacle in a space sim game. -BUT- I guess this is the hardest thing ever, to implement multiplayer feature into a space sim game, and you need players to keep on developing. I totally wouldn't mind only being able to multicrew when on one and the same space station. That would be space sim, that would be fitting for the game in my opinion. Realistic, inconvenient, but that's what it's like in a sim game, and I love it. It feels real and touchable to me. In other games fine, but in Elite it makes me want to curse the spoiled and lazy modern-gaming kids who infect the game with their expectations of arcade game styles. But well, there are also many people who just want to enjoy the game after coming home from a long day at work and only have a couple of hours and also family and so on. It's ambivalent. Anyway: "Meh!" for instant transportation.

Bounty wiping on jumping out is much more "meh!". As mentioned before, going on a killing spree at a community goal or just hunting down civilian npc ships and one of the offenders just pushes the button and won't feel any of the already to small penalties. Just no.

Don't get me wrong, I am totally looking forward to multicrew and the commander creator. It's an enrichment for the game and I will finally be able to share the cockpit with friends and show my son the vastness of the galaxy when I am on an exploration again.

 

[Blaize Meduenin]

Hey guys I dont want to bleed my eyes through 90 pages of this thread. Is the eventual AFK exploit being discussed here? It would be a mess if FDevs deployed the 2.3 without a counter measure, like not getting the coins or automatically being kicked out of the crew because of prolonged inactivity.

Since one of the ways devs have said multicrew can be used is to just go be a passenger (i.e join but do nothing) being afk and getting free credits for nothing isnt an exploit, its a feature

 

[Kicks]

Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but there's another good reason (apart from the many others) of having instant multi-crew.

Sometimes, when I want to play with a mate - we'll log on and find out we're, say, 300ly apart. No problem, one of us will fly to the other to have some shenanigans.

Prior to multi-crew the general idea would be to either wait for your buddy to arrive, or do some trading/bounty-hunting until they arrive (which lets face it could be well over an hour), and then you get on and do what you want.

With instant multi-crew, I can go gun for my buddy as he comes to me (or vice-versa), and earn some cash blowing targets out of the sky. Sure, it'll take him longer (potentially way longer) to get to my location, but we're playing together whilst he does it.

Suits me just fine.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but there's another good reason (apart from the many others) of having instant multi-crew.

Sometimes, when I want to play with a mate - we'll log on and find out we're, say, 300ly apart. No problem, one of us will fly to the other to have some shenanigans.

Prior to multi-crew the general idea would be to either wait for your buddy to arrive, or do some trading/bounty-hunting until they arrive (which lets face it could be well over an hour), and then you get on and do what you want.

With instant multi-crew, I can go gun for my buddy as he comes to me (or vice-versa), and earn some cash blowing targets out of the sky. Sure, it'll take him longer (potentially way longer) to get to my location, but we're playing together whilst he does it.

Suits me just fine.

It would seem that instant-join multi-crew is a compromise, for players who want to play together, between requiring to be in the same location as other Wing mates and being able to teleport around the galaxy (as some players have requested when complaining about the requirement to be in the same location to play as a Wing).

 

[Kicks]

It would seem that instant-join multi-crew is a compromise, for players who want to play together, between requiring to be in the same location as other Wing mates and being able to teleport around the galaxy (as some players have requested when complaining about the requirement to be in the same location to play as a Wing).

Yeah, exactly.

When I thought about, I thought about other multi-player games where you want to play with a friend, or friends.


FPS/Racing? Instant - you just go to the same server/join as party, and you're playing with your mate.
MMO? Depends on the MMO... Guildwars 2 has, basically, teleporters - so instant. World of Warcraft requires flight travel - unless you're friend is in the back-end of nowhere, it's only going to be a few minutes. And even if he is in the back-end of nowhere, it's not going to be *that* long.
Elite? All depends on how far you are. Could be hours.

So, whilst I don't think anyone wants the ability to teleport their ship (ugh!), this mechanic gets people playing together quicker.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So, whilst I don't think anyone wants the ability to teleport their ship (ugh!), this mechanic gets people playing together quicker.

There are some that want to be able to teleport their CMDR around the galaxy to any ship that they have strategically placed (or even any dock that they have visited). Coupled with the desire (from some) for instant ship transfer and Fast Travel would be complete....

Thankfully, in my opinion, Frontier have not chosen to remove travel from the game (but have tipped the hat to those who want a convenient way of playing together).

 

[Ziljan]

It would seem that instant-join multi-crew is a compromise, for players who want to play together, between requiring to be in the same location as other Wing mates and being able to teleport around the galaxy (as some players have requested when complaining about the requirement to be in the same location to play as a Wing).

Teleporting around the Galaxy was never on the table, so this was not a compromise. It was always going to be instant telepresence. Maybe there was some internal debate about the LY range, but the people who are coddling explorers with infinite range ADS god vision seem to have won the day.

imo the range should be no more than 25,000 LY and not be able to function through or inside the galactic core.

 

[Sterling MH]

Hey guys I dont want to bleed my eyes through 90 pages of this thread. Is the eventual AFK exploit being discussed here? It would be a mess if FDevs deployed the 2.3 without a counter measure, like not getting the coins or automatically being kicked out of the crew because of prolonged inactivity.

Yes, it has. You could have discussed it yourself if you did not wish to look through 90 pages. And you could have then stopped this reply from arising, adding to those 90 pages. Which would also have left out the complaint about there being 90 pages, part of which number is because people just HAVE to complain about the number of posts, and part of which number are people who didn't read the posts and asked the same question as others. And there are many repeats of the same thing from the same person too.

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Since one of the ways devs have said multicrew can be used is to just go be a passenger (i.e join but do nothing) being afk and getting free credits for nothing isnt an exploit, its a feature

Although it is commented on as being exploitable and cheaty and many think that this multiplication of reward is wrong, and that the reward should be shared. Nobody as far as I'm aware has said that the multiplication of reward is a good idea.

There are other changes people all over, whether they like the instaport or hate it, suggest to stop AFK buffs unbalancing the game, irrespective of the credit buffs (since the hourly rate of turning those spawned credits into goods that can be sold by the ACTUAL account would take a lot of gameplay time that would result in as much or more credits than this exploit could provide).

 

[Sterling MH]

I'm getting old, I know, but I'm intrigued by your comment. How can 10-15 minutes be a problem? If you play in sessions no longer than 30 minutes then I would understand. In my case, my average sessions are 2-3 hrs. 10-15 minutes initial travel time would be fine. The anticipation of meeting the others and the fun to come after that would be enough for me to make the 10+ minutes trip enjoyable. And... it would keep my illusion intact of living in a (game) universe where causality prevails.

That much work would mean you could join your ship to them instead of multi-crew. That means the group is even more powerful if you travel there and join as a wingman rather than a crewmember. So joining as a crewmember would be a downgrade and suboptimal play. But if you can't get there because you're 100+jumps away,you can still join in, but it won't be as effective a presence as someone who joined up in their ship. That would, however, still be more effect than not playing with them at all.

 

[Junky Juke]

Yes, it has.

You could just stop there. But ok. Thank you.