News 2.3 Dev Update

...because we are humans. Aesthetics. It helps to combat space madness. AND because we can so why not.

But they're not being used by humans, are they? It's been made very clear that only holograms will ever use them - right down to the likeness generator, itself, having 'holo' in the title.

Quite what the existence of chairs has to do with combating insanity, I'll leave for you to explain. :)

And as many of us have also pointed out, declaring that these are holograms, lore-wise, instantly means there's no need for even a cockpit or life support, either, as we could all simply be remotely helming these craft. Why are we bothering to purchase life support modules if we could fly from the safety of a station?

I suppose one could argue that somehow the hologram is intertwined with the ships systems and has something to do with effective response times written in the code. There are any number of imaginative reasons that could be given if really needed.

No. You don't improve processing power by introducing additional processing overheads. There's literally nothing that a hologram's presence would do to make anything faster or more efficient. If anything, it's less efficient, as it requires power which could otherwise be used in other systems (especially in those ships where modules have to be powered down by priority, once weapons are deployed).

Frontier screwed up, basically.
 
Last edited:
Geez, guys, you are over thinking things.
FD are trying to balance gameplay with functionality.
What they don't need are people stating that their good ideas ruin this or that.

How about keeping it simple?

How about...
Some ships have multiple seats, these were originally intended to be directly manned by crew but through technical advances, bit by bit functionality from these multiple stations was consolidated into the pilots main console.

To save the costs of re-designing ship layouts (bulk head positioning and the manufacturing costs of the pre-fabricated parts), they were left as they were, with the now redundant seats.

One side effect of the consolidation was the isolation experienced by pilots on long journeys so the seats were subsequently fitted with holo projectors to 'man up' the ship again.
Further technological advances have since allowed other commanders, across the galaxy take up these holo positions from time to time as the need arose.

These extra seats in a ship could be directly manned by two or more physical commanders if they were to meet up within a station, but due to the logistics of meeting up and the vastness of space, ship to ship holographic projection has become the norm when it comes to socialising.

That, and that the life support systems of ships have been reduced to support just a single air breathing individual. Multiple people present on a bridge for any great length of time would result in asphyxiation for everyone.

How's that for putting the pieces together in a narrative that does not break the wider canon.
 
Last edited:
You are correct, and basically everyone who originally bought into the game - type and advertised direction - would agree with you..

As someone who did exactly as you say (Premium Beta Backer) I understand your point ... to a point. I watched all the Dev Update videos and participated heavily on the forums for the first few years to help fend off those trying to make the game be un-Elite. I didn't want the game to be too 'advantageous' to players playing in groups, as I could see that would then become the only way to play, as the loan wolf player would then be shot down every time they tried to go anywhere.

However, I do like how Frontier consider how they implement all the multi-player aspects. They are respectful to the loan wolf and the game is very much playable in that way.

We should be encouraging and applauding their efforts to cater for both styles though, especially as we all want the game to be a big success and live on. The more players, the more dev effort they can afford.

As for the seats, that's easy. These are ships that can carry multiple crew if they want to. The pilots spend most of their awake time in that room. What's wrong with having seats up there that others can sit in? Especially if they are set up with displays that can aid specific aspects of ship defence or power management. The person you are wanting to co-pilot your ship might not be in a remote location. However, if they are, then the holo-me representation of them can quickly demonstrate that the position is filled.

And lastly, I work for a firm that heavily utilises Skype for Business meetings. There is no doubt that communication is not as good over voice only when you have 3 or more people attempting to communicate than when you are all in the same room. Imparting information quickly and the conversational social mannerisms are so much easier/quicker when you are in the same room. Sure, if you are going to give up the central control of some aspects of ship management, to marginally improve your chances you want the best medium possible. And I think it's safe to say that speed and clarity of comms during a dogfight is paramount. :)
 
But they're not being used by humans, are they? It's been made very clear that only holograms will ever use them - right down to the likeness generator, itself, having 'holo' in the title.

Quite what the existence of chairs has to do with combating insanity, I'll leave for you to explain. :)

And as many of us have also pointed out, declaring that these are holograms, lore-wise, instantly means there's no need for even a cockpit or life support, either, as we could all simply be remotely helming these craft. Why are we bothering to purchase life support modules if we could fly from the safety of a station?



No. You don't improve processing power by introducing additional processing overheads. There's literally nothing that a hologram's presence would do to make anything faster or more efficient. If anything, it's less efficient, as it requires power which could otherwise be used in other systems (especially in those ships where modules have to be powered down by priority, once weapons are deployed).

Frontier screwed up, basically.

No no, you misunderstand. The CMDR at the helm is supposed to be the real human. The CMDRs joining (VIA HOLO-ME eg the hologram) are the ones IN the hologram. Communication between the ship they are all in and the two HOLOs (physically elsewhere in the galaxy) is where you would be introducing LAG (as our technology currently stands but who knows what this will be like then) so by keeping everything in one cockpit is where you can use imagination as far as overheads and processing power blah blah....it doesn't have to be technology as we currently understand it.
 
Not sure if this question has been asked before, but how will "permits" work in Multicrew.

If I am the pilot and I have the permit for Sol, will my fellow crewmates inherit this permit for the multi-crew session?

Or will I be blocked from Sol because some of my crew don't have the permit?

Or, the full immersive solution, is to allow access to Sol, but if I am scanned, I will be marked as Wanted because I am carrying illegal crew?
 
Not sure if this question has been asked before, but how will "permits" work in Multicrew.

If I am the pilot and I have the permit for Sol, will my fellow crewmates inherit this permit for the multi-crew session?

Or will I be blocked from Sol because some of my crew don't have the permit?

Or, the full immersive solution, is to allow access to Sol, but if I am scanned, I will be marked as Wanted because I am carrying illegal crew?

Your holograms need no permits, or you'll get virtual wanted bounty
 
No no, you misunderstand. The CMDR at the helm is supposed to be the real human. The CMDRs joining (VIA HOLO-ME eg the hologram) are the ones IN the hologram. Communication between the ship they are all in and the two HOLOs (physically elsewhere in the galaxy) is where you would be introducing LAG (as our technology currently stands but who knows what this will be like then) so by keeping everything in one cockpit is where you can use imagination as far as overheads and processing power blah blah....it doesn't have to be technology as we currently understand it.

But thats the point. With implementing this poorly thought out holo me system for multi crew they are saying we have the technology to NOT be in the ship at all either. So why would anyone be in the ship instead of using holo tech, when they would save all the expense, weight and trouble of having a cockpit, life support and danger of being in space...

Not to mention that this holo me you create and change at will is the avatar you see in your own pilot seat as well, meaning that IS the same holo me that you transmit if you crew up.

A VERY bad implementation for the sake of a limited turret mode that multicrew has devolved into. Thats without even getting into the balance issues of 'pay to win' via multi account afk commanders that give extra pips and duplicate free credits...

The really sad thing is it could easily be fit in to the existing gameworld with no extra effort in a way that enhances the setting and preserves its functionality.

1) Make holo me just an actual commander creator you create once (with costume, hair style changes etc possible later).
2) Allow players to create npc avatars to sit in their empty bridge seats. No extra benefits need to be added, but it gives people that populated bridge at zero extra effort as well that we don't have.
3) For instant multicrew have players take over these npcs in the same way they are implementing multicrew anyway - no teleprescence or holo me problems involved, no continuity problems caused.
 
Last edited:
But thats the point. With implementing this poorly thought out holo me system for multi crew they are saying we have the technology to NOT be in the ship at all either. So why would anyone be in the ship instead of using holo tech, when they would save all the expense, weight and trouble of having a cockpit, life support and danger of being in space...

Man you are looking way to far into this. The telepresence is about as sophisticated as remote controlling a quadcopter with an attached camera. The holographic representation of other commanders is in-game and out-game a luxury built on top a basic, simplistic x-box controller. Even with advance remote control abilities, a physical pilot is going to be more reliable and aware in any situation. Also no one would want to lose a 400+million credit ship because the station/planet-base needed to do a comm update.

tl;dr you assign telepresence way too much credit for what it is, and just because it -can- be used for things doesn't mean it should be used.
 
Man you are looking way to far into this. The telepresence is about as sophisticated as remote controlling a quadcopter with an attached camera. The holographic representation of other commanders is in-game and out-game a luxury built on top a basic, simplistic x-box controller. Even with advance remote control abilities, a physical pilot is going to be more reliable and aware in any situation. Also no one would want to lose a 400+million credit ship because the station/planet-base needed to do a comm update.

tl;dr you assign telepresence way too much credit for what it is, and just because it -can- be used for things doesn't mean it should be used.

I notice you had nothing to say about the rest of my post...

The really sad thing is it could easily be fit in to the existing gameworld with no extra effort in a way that enhances the setting and preserves its functionality.

1) Make holo me just an actual commander creator you create once (with costume, hair style changes etc possible later).
2) Allow players to create npc avatars to sit in their empty bridge seats. No extra benefits need to be added, but it gives people that populated bridge at zero extra effort as well that we don't have.
3) For instant multicrew have players take over these npcs in the same way they are implementing multicrew anyway - no teleprescence or holo me problems involved, no continuity problems caused.
 
@ Blaize Meduenin

1) Holo-Me IS a Commander Creator. The holographic display is nothing but an advanced mirror. So you are present as a person. This was said by Frontier in the live streams many times.
2) I would love that!
3) Yes. Said that a lot of times myself, so i am with you here as well.
 
I notice you had nothing to say about the rest of my post...

The really sad thing is it could easily be fit in to the existing gameworld with no extra effort in a way that enhances the setting and preserves its functionality.

1) Make holo me just an actual commander creator you create once (with costume, hair style changes etc possible later).
2) Allow players to create npc avatars to sit in their empty bridge seats. No extra benefits need to be added, but it gives people that populated bridge at zero extra effort as well that we don't have.
3) For instant multicrew have players take over these npcs in the same way they are implementing multicrew anyway - no teleprescence or holo me problems involved, no continuity problems caused.

Personally I've seen all too clearly with SC what can happen when you worry too much about multi-crew realism and forget that it's supposed to be fun.

So i don't care at all about rationalisations for how players get to the ship, why the ship operates more effectively with them or where any additional money earnt comes from. What matters to me is that the mode is fun, simple to get into and out of and provides a reason for a bunch of people to get together and multi-crew rather than fly ships solo.
 
Last edited:
I notice you had nothing to say about the rest of my post...

The really sad thing is it could easily be fit in to the existing gameworld with no extra effort in a way that enhances the setting and preserves its functionality.

1) Make holo me just an actual commander creator you create once (with costume, hair style changes etc possible later).
2) Allow players to create npc avatars to sit in their empty bridge seats. No extra benefits need to be added, but it gives people that populated bridge at zero extra effort as well that we don't have.
3) For instant multicrew have players take over these npcs in the same way they are implementing multicrew anyway - no teleprescence or holo me problems involved, no continuity problems caused.

Because I had nothing to add. But to clarify you want to
1) Lock down a feature so anyone who regrets a facial feature has to re-start in a sidewinder with a hand full of credits in their pocket to fix it.
2) Put dolls in empty chairs to feel less lonely
3) Mind control the dolls

Don't think I need to say anything.
 
Immersion is not realism. And there has to be a trade off between realism and gameplay. No one wants to wait for hours, days or weeks to be rescued from an escape pod. That's just bad gameplay. Or to stare at your navigation screen for 10 hours to find unknown artifacts for some engineer. Or to sit in front of your mission board and do board hopping for 3 hours to get a permit mission. All that would make for terrible gameplay. And some of it does.
Realism is fine. Realism makes a simulator. This is NOT a simulator. If you want a space sim, you go for rogue system.

Immersion is this: Consistency with the own rules. Even in a fantasy setting, you can be Immersed. It's not only consistency though. It's setting up a complete ruleset, and then think about how people would use it.
If you say, it is possible to control systems via holopresence, instantly and with no signal delay, then you have to wonder, where else would this be applied? And if it is not, then that breaks immersion. If you say, you can magically increase the charge rate of the power distributor by having holographic people join you, then that breaks immersion, because everybody would have thousands of holoconnections. Again, there needs to be a tradeoff.

That said, I'm still disappointed, realism and immersion aside. It's quite easy to say why:
They offer cheap and artificial benefits that make no sense, even in elite's own universe to coax players to use this new feature. Such as to wipe bounties on leaving the group, extra pips out of nowhere, scanners and missiles firing backwards.
This is a reward oriented approach. People 'want' to do this, because it gives them benefits. Nothing wrong with benefits, of course.
What would actually make sense to put in?
For the pilot: Actual benefits, reduced workload, more efficient ship without breaking rules.
For the crew: Fun and useful things to do. Not point a guncross at someone and press the mouse button, but to handle ship systems such as module power, distributor distribution, navigation, trading comparison*, damage control, shield control, perhaps, scanning stuff. of course shooting stuff and flying fighters is still okay, but limiting it to that is just cheap and lazy.
Letting someone on your ship is a risky thing to do. and you have to take responsibility for it. you should not allow some random stranger on board and allow them access, of course. That would be reckless and utterly dumb. he could just take out one 'personal defense weapon', point it at your head and have a new ship. the whole drop in drop out thing is fundamentally flawed. if you have only 15 minutes to play, just go play counterstrike or something.
Edit: A record system would be nice. When inviting commanders/joining someone you get an overview of their performance in general and as a crewmen/captain. Then griefers can have their few friends that they have give them psositive ratings, but after griefing for 10 times or so, they'll just have a bad track, and no one would allow them on anymore.
If you're planing on playing with a friend, then you should be with your friend in the first place. If you're wanting to do a wing, you have to be together too. No teleport, holothing where you can rent a ship someplace else that magically has the same loadout, including engineering items, as you. and no infinite jump rage.
Then again, those ships which do feature multicrew have a very decent jump range anyway.

But what annoys me most of all, there is 150 pages of rant about what a sorry excuse for multicrew this is. And I know for a fact, nothing will change.
An example how multicrew is done right is pulsar:lost colony. Not a perfect game by far, not complete yet either. But the concept is there. Fun, useful and semi-realistic things to do for the whole crew. I would like more realism, more systems that can be damaged, more modules, more everything and complexity, but the concept is good.

And all those people who say: "Just dock at a station before joining the crew, there is your immersion", I say this:
"Frontier, add infinite jump range. People who want immersion can just take 10ly at a time. Everything would be more accessible, players can play together whenever they want."
Perhaps now you see how stupid your argument is.


*(needs an actual in game trading system, not some stupid lines on the map that say nothing at all. frankly it's a shame that you need 3rd party tools to do decent or even the most basic trading. I've had those lines show me routes making a loss. after buying the trading data you can't even check the prices. what kind of stupid crap is that?)
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom