News 2.3 Dev Update

[Mengy]

I guess I have had a decent amount of gameplay out of it at the start but Ive hardly played the last seasons updates at all and definitely not got my moneys worth on the game as yet. Cant see myself buying the next season.

I've already decided that I'm only buying S3 if one of the headline features is a non-combat feature, preferably an explorer feature. Multicrew broke any patience I had left in me, it's time for me to vote with my dollars now. I know losing me as a paying customer won't have any impact on Frontier at all, but I just can't in good conscience keep supporting them if they continue down this combat focus with development. It's not the game I thought I was buying two years ago, I expected exploration and trading to get at least similar development time as combat. I was wrong.

I might still play now and then just without S3 access and without buying any more store stuff. As an explorer, if S3 is all combat then I might not be missing out on anything much for me anyway, LOL!

 

[DerErdnussKrieger]

The teleport think is not cool. That is not Elite! The instand port to the other player that is not okay. Please player, use your voice and say "that is not okay the teleport s**t!" The griefer s**t is not cool. Harry Potter and his crew can grief more player with this patch. That is not cool.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

I've already decided that I'm only buying S3 if one of the headline features is a non-combat feature, preferably an explorer feature. Multicrew broke any patience I had left in me, it's time for me to vote with my dollars now. I know losing me as a paying customer won't have any impact on Frontier at all, but I just can't in good conscience keep supporting them if they continue down this combat focus with development. It's not the game I thought I was buying two years ago, I expected exploration and trading to get at least similar development time as combat. I was wrong.

I might still play now and then just without S3 access and without buying any more store stuff. As an explorer, if S3 is all combat then I might not be missing out on anything much for me anyway, LOL!

I bought Season 2 no question because of planetary landings...must have for me. Season 3 though...I am with you, and am going to be holding off. I bought in during the Premium beta and have bought into and spent time in all the beta's and everything since, but I think this is the end of the road for me in spending money on prerelease products.

 

[PyrateLV]

I've already decided that I'm only buying S3 if one of the headline features is a non-combat feature, preferably an explorer feature. Multicrew broke any patience I had left in me, it's time for me to vote with my dollars now. I know losing me as a paying customer won't have any impact on Frontier at all, but I just can't in good conscience keep supporting them if they continue down this combat focus with development. It's not the game I thought I was buying two years ago, I expected exploration and trading to get at least similar development time as combat. I was wrong.

I might still play now and then just without S3 access and without buying any more store stuff. As an explorer, if S3 is all combat then I might not be missing out on anything much for me anyway, LOL!

I feel the same way except Im only a month in.

 

[LuciusEsox]

Why is it that Mr Marco wants instant ?

Gameplay, oh yeah.

Sims dont sell so dont expect one. I want it and I want it NOW...

The reason I always have and always will hate consoles.

 

[BuggeX]

The teleport think is not cool. That is not Elite! The instand port to the other player that is not okay. Please player, use your voice and say "that is not okay the teleport s**t!" The griefer s**t is not cool. Harry Potter and his crew can grief more player with this patch. That is not cool.

Why so much hate to the instant port? Guys its in our current time possible to sit next to each other in VR and Play Retro games together over Internet.
Frontier could make it a Little different, you Need to be in a Station to become a Crewmember, the crewmember isnt real there, but a a real looking hologram, the game is somewhere in 3300, we are able to transfare bounty datas
accrose the whole milkyway using kill Warrant scanner, why shouldnt we be able to to trasnfare a Hologramm to a remote ship and controll Limit function with it.

 

[sebinator]

I vote as well against teleportation
We should be able to join ships only if they are at the same station,
And maybe adding as well somekind of UI with a list of ships docked at stations around with current free sits availability
It would make more sence
Elite dangerous is all about SCALE , the galaxy is huge, and that's a strong Element in this game and this teleportation thing may break this...
Such decision can break the game experience
And in every game, when people wants to play together, they have to meet somewhere first, so I don't see why it should be any different here .

 

[Von Elsner]

My friend has already ask me to let him log on to my ship whilst he is at work, on his short shift, so I can earn credits for him.

 

[sebinator]

My friend has already ask me to let him log on to my ship whilst he is at work, on his short shift, so I can earn credits for him.

Yes but I don't think that will work,
I am pretty sure there will be an afk timer,
Like someone not active 5mn get auto kicked out

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Yes but I don't think that will work,
I am pretty sure there will be an afk timer,
Like someone not active 5mn get auto kicked out

What would make you think that? It is already stated that one of the things multicrew can do is just be along for the ride...besides, auto macros get around any timers piece of cake.

 

[PyrateLV]

Here is what is bothering me about the 2.3 Update.

Description taken from the Official Frontier Website

2.3 – The Commanders
Still to come
Team up and stand together. Forge your own identity with the new Commander Creator, then share your bridge with Multi-Crew and fly with friends.

Now, as a new player who just bought HORIZONS the description above sure sounds like you get to make a Full Fledged Avatar and be able to go on to another players ship or have other player Avatars on yours and Explore the Universe together.
But its nothing like that at all.

Guess I read way too much into it.

 

[Six6VI]

Veruca Salt community:

View attachment 114104

Ironic that the people who really need to 'get' this message never saw that movie...

And herein lies the fundamental issue - the generation gap between the over 40's that remember how long the original game took to even load from magnetic tape (about 30 mins) or load their save (about 10 mins), vs the millenials who, through no real fault of their own, find themselves in an insta-gratification society.

It's been said that humans are unlikely to make it out into space in any meaningful way until some major cataclysm drives the species close enough to extinction to reinstate a sense of appreciation for the survivors. We're unlikely to resolve that difference in a single online experience, the grandkids are a completely different market.

Reading a book like "The Richest Man in Babylon" by George S Classon might help steer us away from global financial suicide but that would rely on adequate literacy. Some people DO have patience, empathy and compassion for others and despite labeling themselves 'anti-social' might enjoy multiplay IF they knew who they could trust.

Might it not be time more wisely spent to implement a system whereby grandad can distinguish the really obnoxious PKKers from those in his own demographic? We appear to have two communities with irreconcilable differences in play style. Those who wish their rebuy count was still zero, but won't reset it, and those who don't care...

People won't play nicely together when there is no respect. Can we have that?

 

[TenakaFurey]

Here is what is bothering me about the 2.3 Update.

Description taken from the Official Frontier Website

2.3 – The Commanders
Still to come
Team up and stand together. Forge your own identity with the new Commander Creator, then share your bridge with Multi-Crew and fly with friends.

Now, as a new player who just bought HORIZONS the description above sure sounds like you get to make a Full Fledged Avatar and be able to go on to another players ship or have other player Avatars on yours and Explore the Universe together.
But its nothing like that at all.

Guess I read way too much into it.

A lot of players were hoping for something more, but in talking about multicrew, FD were fairly explicit in emphasising that MC would be combat orientated.

Personally...I want MC to work. Really. I think flying around with a crew could be fun. More importantly, I think the underlying technology should offer a good foundation for the future and various features.

I'm also all for improving player communications and would be all for clans and guilds and player trading. I know an argument can be made that such structures have issues and cause their own sets of problems but properly designed and implemented, I think they would add a lot to the game.

Same for PvP. For all my stated concerns, I think PvP is something which should be encouraged. Interaction with players is always better than interaction with NPCs. It just needs to be designed to reduce...as it can't be eliminated...the potential for griefing.

For all these reasons and more, I want MC to work well even if it isn't popular.

Which is why I had hoped that FD would be a little bit more innovative and indepth about their design. And why I am so disappointed that they lived down to my (and others) worst fears

I can live with the impact on exploration. While MC will have an impact, there isn't really any way around it. It will be devalued simply by allowing other players onto the ship. Unless FD are willing to put in a filter to degrade the experience or to require some sort of rendezvous to initiate the multicrew, a devaluation of exploration to some degree was always going to happen.

But it is made worse by limiting MC to combat only, by ensuring that there is no MC exploration element that justifies having players multicrew an exploration ship.

The other elements of the design?

Instacrew is seductive. But I cannot really see the point in it. ED isn't casual and the point of drop in drop out is to embrace casual play. Friends which play together will also already be synchronising their play so they can form wings....so the only "friends" who will be linking up are those who drop into the game and find one of their friends engaged in combat somewhere too far away to make a wing practical and who decides the instant thrill of a SLF or gunnery turret is better than controlling their own ship. In which case..if they only have a few ninutes to spare, why launch ED or avoid CQC?

Is it worth all the issues and problems it raises?

Same with the other mechanics. What happens if your target ship has no SLF or turrets installed? Why is FD duplicating the rewards instead of sharing them? Why the potential for Pay to Win with this pip mechanic? Why implement a mechanic that encourages griefing just a few weeks after talking about ways to rein it in? And more

I know FD are trying to make multicrew attractive to play and to encourage its use...but when those mechanics impact so heavily on other aspects of gameplay and balance, then it needs to be asked if MC is worth the cost of implementation.

I think MC is worth adding. I think MC should be added.

But I do not think MC should be added this way. There is to much negative impact on too many other aspects of the game, too many ways this system can be abused and exploited. And in ways worse than instant transfer.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

A lot of players were hoping for something more, but in talking about multicrew, FD were fairly explicit in emphasising that MC would be combat orientated.

Personally...I want MC to work. Really. I think flying around with a crew could be fun. More importantly, I think the underlying technology should offer a good foundation for the future and various features.

I'm also all for improving player communications and would be all for clans and guilds and player trading. I know an argument can be made that such structures have issues and cause their own sets of problems but properly designed and implemented, I think they would add a lot to the game.

Same for PvP. For all my stated concerns, I think PvP is something which should be encouraged. Interaction with players is always better than interaction with NPCs. It just needs to be designed to reduce...as it can't be eliminated...the potential for griefing.

For all these reasons and more, I want MC to work well even if it isn't popular.

Which is why I had hoped that FD would be a little bit more innovative and indepth about their design. And why I am so disappointed that they lived down to my (and others) worst fears

I can live with the impact on exploration. While MC will have an impact, there isn't really any way around it. It will be devalued simply by allowing other players onto the ship. Unless FD are willing to put in a filter to degrade the experience or to require some sort of rendezvous to initiate the multicrew, a devaluation of exploration to some degree was always going to happen.

But it is made worse by limiting MC to combat only, by ensuring that there is no MC exploration element that justifies having players multicrew an exploration ship.

The other elements of the design?

Instacrew is seductive. But I cannot really see the point in it. ED isn't casual and the point of drop in drop out is to embrace casual play. Friends which play together will also already be synchronising their play so they can form wings....so the only "friends" who will be linking up are those who drop into the game and find one of their friends engaged in combat somewhere too far away to make a wing practical and who decides the instant thrill of a SLF or gunnery turret is better than controlling their own ship. In which case..if they only have a few ninutes to spare, why launch ED or avoid CQC?

Is it worth all the issues and problems it raises?

Same with the other mechanics. What happens if your target ship has no SLF or turrets installed? Why is FD duplicating the rewards instead of sharing them? Why the potential for Pay to Win with this pip mechanic? Why implement a mechanic that encourages griefing just a few weeks after talking about ways to rein it in? And more

I know FD are trying to make multicrew attractive to play and to encourage its use...but when those mechanics impact so heavily on other aspects of gameplay and balance, then it needs to be asked if MC is worth the cost of implementation.

I think MC is worth adding. I think MC should be added.

But I do not think MC should be added this way. There is to much negative impact on too many other aspects of the game, too many ways this system can be abused and exploited. And in ways worse than instant transfer.

To be honest, I had no issue with having Multi-crew be initially combat focused. However, what they seem to be delivering is far less than what they were promising even just a month or so ago.

Remember that the roles were initially Helm, Gunner, Tactical and Engineering. Well, we lost Tactical & Engineering in the interim-two roles which could have added entirely new GUI elements & game-play. An Engineer could have had an interface that would allow them to shift power between modules.....maybe giving certain modules a temporary buff (but perhaps at the cost of potential damage), & an interface that could allow them to run diagnostics on ship systems, either to help repair malfunctioning modules (perhaps using on-board materials) or to help get a short-term buff for said module if they're already in 100% working order.

Tactical could have had an interface allowing the player to control defensive & other secondary systems, to move shields to protect certain sides of the ship more than others, & to control the assignment of targeting priorities (based on info of the condition of enemy ships).

Sadly, the roles we have add very little *new* game-play into the mix, which is very sad .

 

[Carroway]

(...)
Instacrew is seductive. But I cannot really see the point in it. ED isn't casual and the point of drop in drop out is to embrace casual play. Friends which play together will also already be synchronising their play so they can form wings....so the only "friends" who will be linking up are those who drop into the game and find one of their friends engaged in combat somewhere too far away to make a wing practical and who decides the instant thrill of a SLF or gunnery turret is better than controlling their own ship. In which case..if they only have a few ninutes to spare, why launch ED or avoid CQC?

Is it worth all the issues and problems it raises?
(...)

While I do agree with many of your concerns, I disagree with above statement. ED is not Casual, but neither is it really hardcore, there is nothing about its design earns it that moniker, it is too complex to be considered a pick-up and play title and not harcore enough to truely be considered a hardcore sim title ala DCS, it falls strangely in the middle, some systems leaning towards one side of the specturm and some leaning towards the other.

I also do not agree that the only people who will use the feature will be those who are in combat. I can speak from experience that because wings require people to meet-up, then most of my friends, and myself included, simply do not bother. Partly, when we are online, we are not close and partly because we have very different interests. I find exploration to be interesting while another finds combat interesting and a third finds trading interesting. In order for us to wing up and getting anything done proper, we don't just have to team up, we have to get to our ships, outfit them correctly and then meet up. This is a process that can easily take up to an hour, if not more, which takes out the enthusiasm, rather quickly.

Multi-crew, specifically the instant nature of it, makes it so, we can all play together and participate in whatever activity that we so choose. If we want to do some combat, we can go to my combat friend. If we want to do some canyon running in SLF's. We can go to me. If we just want to chill and talk while in the game, we can go to my trader friend. For us, the concept and the way that multi-crew is described, is a godsend, because it means that we can do things together, without having to spend a long time prepping. Although I do agree that I would like other professions to get some love in MC.

The other nice thing that thing that the update adds, in the described form, is scalability of play time. As it stands now, if you aren't intending to play for at least a few hours, then you can get, almost nothing done. With the inclusion of MC, in it's current, proposed state, you can get a meaningful play experience if you only have one or two hours, which is a nice option to have.

In regards to the concerns about griefing and balance, I completely agree, there are legitemate concerns to be had there, thankfully, that is why the beta period exists, so people can thoroughly test and prod the implemented mechanics to hopefully find those exploits and abuseable things that are present.

I understand that MC is not for everyone and I do see, where you are coming from, however I do believe that the proposed systems have more pros than cons to them and that we should at least give Fdev the benefit of the doubt with the beta.

Sorry about the rather long post.

 

[greatsouls]

eTomcat

This part of the behaviour really needs a serious re-think I feel.

You're essentially outlining a system where crew can commit all the crimes they want on non-reward granting targets and then just walk away wiping the crimes with the only deterrent being they don't gain any of the credits they never gained in killing civilians/unwanted in the first place.

It simply doesn't work as a counter rule, and just sets up a grief-centric reward system.



Also the whole magical space unicorn transportation stuff really doesn't seem to fit into the existing rules of the game.... unless Frontier have plans to re-invent the entire premise of players in the Elite universe and make us some god-grade immortal EVE-clones that can just jump between bodies at will.

Otherwise, having people whisking themselves to the other side of the galaxy in the blink of an eye just to see the latest discovery of someone who actually took the time to travel, or to get involved in conflicts hundreds of thousands of light years away without any risk or investment is just going to be nothing but a negative influence on the game and bring the game closer to a market that frankly will get bored and stop playing a couple of week after each major update or popular reveal anyway no matter what you do.

Couldn't agree more. My thoughts exactly. I really hope Elit will stick more to the realism ( with all the fancy sci-fi elements of course). Switching bodies (or just "materializing" anywhere in the galaxy in the seat of a ship) is too "arcade" like. That would only take from the game. Unles all multi crew ships are fit with teleport (a-la Star Trek) or it is offered as a module one can buy. Once FP is available (if that ever happens ) that will make more sense. You cane go to a cabin in the station and teleport into your friend's ship (per received invitation ).

 

[Dbrn47]

To be honest, I had no issue with having Multi-crew be initially combat focused. However, what they seem to be delivering is far less than what they were promising even just a month or so ago.

Remember that the roles were initially Helm, Gunner, Tactical and Engineering. Well, we lost Tactical & Engineering in the interim-two roles which could have added entirely new GUI elements & game-play. An Engineer could have had an interface that would allow them to shift power between modules.....maybe giving certain modules a temporary buff (but perhaps at the cost of potential damage), & an interface that could allow them to run diagnostics on ship systems, either to help repair malfunctioning modules (perhaps using on-board materials) or to help get a short-term buff for said module if they're already in 100% working order.

Tactical could have had an interface allowing the player to control defensive & other secondary systems, to move shields to protect certain sides of the ship more than others, & to control the assignment of targeting priorities (based on info of the condition of enemy ships).

Sadly, the roles we have add very little *new* game-play into the mix, which is very sad .

Watered down before the community could even be the reason for it. [sad]

 

[CMDR Dash Rendar]

An Example of Multi crew done right.

If you want to look at a game that Elite should be taking notes from, you need to look up Pulsar: The Lost Colony. Absolutely amazing multicrew feature that is implemented amazingly!
Here is a good video demonstrating the features in game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP8n9O63A-U

 

[Six6VI]

Ok, now you got me thinking...

In order to bring disparate people all over the galaxy together they need a common goal, something that EVERYONE appreciates as CRITICAL to their own personal definition of fun. Something to band together to maintain.

Keeping within the lore there already exists a way to FTL travel 22,500 LY, and it's on board Jaques Station. Can that storyline be developed into an eventual by-pass for the neutron superhighway, supporting long range TelePresence [TP].

CMDR's in the heat of battle suddenly lose their gunner and watch in dismay as their SLF's float off into space, because reasons? Wait, I'm in Colonia, was the whole crew back in the bubble? OMG! The TP network must be down!

Navigator, check the TP line for a breach and set a course to intercept! Oh no! This ship can't leave the dock without at least three crew [like in Frontier], I'll have to switch seats to set a course myself and limp to the nearest station.

Safely back in dock and looking at the crew lounge I better take at least one NPC navigator. Now, who's available within short range TP of Jaques that's willing to get their hands dirty if it's another superpower that disabled the network?

Since by this stage trader after trader has also noticed they've dropped out of the Colonia conduit and are trying to evade the hostiles at the breach point they may be incentivised to switch ship and call in reinforcements for the CG...

You now have not one but two armadas coming from Colonia and the bubble up the working ends of the conduit. You have created a pinch point of immense convenience for people to appreciate, respect and defend, to the death!

Once the hostiles have been repelled it may be fun to sweep the wreckage for materials to then use for extra CG bonus repairing the conduit, or help rescue some of the CMDR's currently snoozing in their escape pods [rebuy menu option].

Hmm, lets have a look at these pods and see if any are worth waking up to help fly the ship? Hi, welcome aboard the "Please can we have ship names?", we have a gunner position available, or you can just return to pod for the trip back?

Oh wait, that might be boring? Can we send in game messages to the helm from inside the pods like passengers do? And maybe access the debug cam to look outside, or maybe just be stuck in debug cam while stuck inside the pod?

Hey, this is really handy, just like in the player crew lounge there's a picture, and a short bio, and all these stats like K/D ratio, number of rebuys, how many fines. Well, I want to go on a cop killing spree, bring me cut throat pew-pews!

Ok, I have my coffee, the kids are finally asleep, the goody two shoes daddy taxi is safely parked and I can sneak in a few hours of carnage attacking the TP relays on my uber-nasty-pirate alt that I log into via this completely separate menu.

Exploring this nebula is more fun than playing cards on Friday night and we both get our names on new bodies. By loading my magic pockets escape seat on board at LHS 3447 we can scan at triple the efficiency! [science hard seat bonus]

Alright, I'm paying good money for your ranks and professionalism. This cargo MUST get to it's destination or billions of lives could be lost. Navigation has confirmed inbound hostiles, and lots of them! Say so now if this is not the "job" for you?

It's so nice and peaceful out here in the black but I wish I could show my dad back at Beagle Point, he'd so love this view. Hey dad! Are you logged in Steam? Observe my game dad! You so totally have to see this! Oh, you're flying over? Yay

If done the right way multicrew could be totally space awesome! Or... not

 

[zzehirbazz]

If you want to look at a game that Elite should be taking notes from, you need to look up Pulsar: The Lost Colony. Absolutely amazing multicrew feature that is implemented amazingly!
Here is a good video demonstrating the features in game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP8n9O63A-U

This.