2yrs and counting...

[VR jefranklin18]

The FSS is a decent body scanner but a terrible system scanner.
It does a different thing to the ADS.
The main point being that the majority of systems are pretty dull and not worth spending any time in.
Now, you need to faff around with the FSS before you really know, and by then you’ve discovered the system anyway.
The FSS is just as easy, if not even easier for something like ELW tagging, you don’t even need to fly there.

It is one more button press though surely? You hit the FSS honk, it gives you the body count and you jump to the grid view to see if there is anything worth scanning (the horizontal line tell you broadly what to expect).

I guess if they put the waveform on the main screen after you honked, would that help?

 

[MadDogMurdock]

It is one more button press though surely? You hit the FSS honk, it gives you the body count and you jump to the grid view to see if there is anything worth scanning (the horizontal line tell you broadly what to expect).

I guess if they put the waveform on the main screen after you honked, would that help?

It’s the same button.
The waveform is only one aspect of what makes a system interesting - body types.
Almost as if it was designed for ELW farmers

 

[Taifu]

So when are the forums going to be renamed "Dead Horse Storage"?

 

[Rat Catcher]

All too true, which is a shame because I was enjoying the game and exploration until the FSS arrived and got in the way.
Make it’s use more optional and I’d probably start flying again.

Odd, the introduction of the FSS enhanced my game massively, and has continued to do so... Yes, I got my elite exploration prior to 3.3 so am able to make that comment based on actual experience.

But then, every new system I find is of interest to me as I've never been there before - I'm not picky (and have found ELW's in M Class systems with no secondary/tertiary stars - apparently they are not plentiful...)

 

[amigacooke]

So when are the forums going to be renamed "Dead Horse Storage"?

I'm sure Frontier's new trailer tomorrow means we'll be talking about nothing else

 

[VR jefranklin18]

I'm sure Frontier's new trailer tomorrow means we'll be talking about nothing else

I can hear the moaning now

 

[Rat Catcher]

I'm sure Frontier's new trailer tomorrow means we'll be talking about nothing else

I'm certainly looking forward to a great deal of entertainment value from the comments that will follow the trailer...

Naturally, my bias will be toward those made by a handful of 'names'
(Not pointing that at you though!)

 

[Semivivus]

Why?

Because Braben shows up once a year. Like Santa Claus.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Its so tempting to restate all the old arguments because they're still valid today. But resist.

If anything, i think the FSS would have had more credibility if they didn't "cheese" the mechanic for (presumably) combat players in the bubble. Just in my opinion, what broke the camel was:

• They had to invent a mechanic so that combat players wouldn't have to use it. Having all players everywhere require to use the fss, OR drop into the nav beacon sounds the highest solution but think about the youtube videos from those people.
• Because of this they had to hijack the old ADS state, "discovered/unexplored" and use it for this stupid exemption.
• The ADS had to go, because they couldn't logically go "social exploring" and "ADS" being the same thing.

Hang on why did they remove the ads? What i wrote could possibly not make sense. How mad would you be if it was because of "i dont want it and you can't have it" points of view. Remember its all okay as long as you cause no harm.... If you want to actually harm others experience you're terrible and have no moral basis at all. Please leave and go away.

It was a bit confusing because frontier kept claiming in public that they tried to support everyone, but they just couldn't, stuck their palms up and shrugged. So taking their word i assumed it was technical.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If what FD did wasn't what a lot of people wanted, perhaps people should have expressed their thoughts on the matter clearer.

Yeah, that was the problem.

I remember trying in the focused feedback forum. I remember not expressing my thoughts clear enough. That was it yeah.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Over a coffee and ciggy was trying to think about the fss argument 2 years later.

• Carriers change the context of the problem. The fact that they exist removes a good portion of the fundamental pain the fss added into exploration. Should be acknowledged.
• Personally, the defect is the bodies not showing up in the nav panel after the honk. I understand they are overloading "presence in the nav panel" with information regard prediscovery, which is valuable as its the only way to get before discovering anything yourself.. but if they just used an overlay instead of presence / absence that simple choice would have removed the problem for so many (ie, you could adapt with no valid gripes, just change).
• The missing orbital or visual information pre discovery could have been put back somehow. Can you tell composition and therefore possible color from the spectrum? Some form of black ball system map (which they've previously shown in the past) would have done it.

It may have been possible that using an overlay icon in the nav panel and a black system map would have covered 100% while keeping the fss in the most extreme max factor compatible restrictive state.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Yeah, that was the problem.

I remember trying in the focused feedback forum. I remember not expressing my thoughts clear enough. That was it yeah.

I'm sure the well-thought out mechanics you were trying to suggest were drown in a sea of people shouting "mile wide, inch deep"

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm sure the well-thought out mechanics you were trying to suggest were drown in a sea of people shouting "mile wide, inch deep"

You mean in the imaginary focused feedback round we had for exploration?

And there was definitely a middle ground found in threads after the fact (after the fact, since all threads about this were after the fact) that wasn't much of the issue. Most of the time I was arguing against ... lesser people who were being ... unfair about the motivations of people wanting the ADS.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You mean in the imaginary focused feedback round we had for exploration?

And there was definitely a middle ground found in threads after the fact (after the fact, since all threads about this were after the fact) that wasn't much of the issue. Most of the time I was arguing against ... lesser people who were being ... unfair about the motivations of people wanting the ADS.

No idea if there was a focused feedback. All i saw prior to the change was years of people saying its just honk and jump.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

No idea if there was a focused feedback. All i saw prior to the change was years of people saying its just honk and jump.

No, there wasn't a focused feedback. It was delayed, delayed, cancelled. And for the trillionth time, exploration needed more features, that was a universal sentiment.

Truth of the matter, the exploration part of 3.3 was lowest priority, it was delivered too late, there was no time for feedback, and afterwards no inclination to put any more time into it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

No, there wasn't a focused feedback. It was delayed, delayed, cancelled. And for the trillionth time, exploration needed more features, that was a universal sentiment.

Truth of the matter, the exploration part of 3.3 was lowest priority, it was delivered too late, there was no time for feedback, and afterwards no inclination to put any more time into it.

Probably true. They had limited time and resources and were told to improve exploraition. More features to find would take a lot of work. Assets, devs, QAs, a lot of their time. But since the feedback was mainly about jump and honk they looked at what they could do. The mile wide inch deep crowd kept saying there was no depth, so FD added depth to the honk and jump mechanic, taking a lot less resources than it would to make a whole boatload of proc gen content for the galaxy.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

They also failed to mention that the beta for 3.3 was largely a "show it off beta". While they went through the motions of faking being normal, i don't think they provided any allowance of development for making anything more than trivial or balance changes.

For me, it was the first time i was interested in the beta like to that extent, so had no idea this was the normal for frontier.

Also just in case "show it off" in reference to beta is a developer quote.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Probably true. They had limited time and resources and were told to improve exploration. More features to find would take a lot of work. Assets, devs, QAs, a lot of their time. But since the feedback was mainly about jump and honk they looked at what they could do. The mile wide inch deep crowd kept saying there was no depth, so FD added depth to the honk and jump mechanic, taking a lot less resources than it would to make a whole boatload of proc gen content for the galaxy.

You call that depth eh? And you call removing a feature improvement? Alright, your prerogative. I call it a quickly cobbled together mini game to add grind to the process and be able to check a box that says: "we have to pretend to have done something with exploration". I call the removal of a feature many explorers needed for their exploration process being out of touch with what explorers wanted. There were plenty of suggestion threads before 3.3 and those weren't just: have more stuff to find.

And mind that they had limited time and resources, but still had plenty of time to discuss the unscheduled "Open Only Powerplay" . They had plenty of time to address the other features of 3.3. Just not exploration. That gets a mini game on par with minesweeper. And that's depth.

Amusing

But I do find it interesting you didn't know about the focused feedback threads being cancelled while opting: "perhaps people should have expressed their thoughts on the matter clearer". Perhaps you should not comment of the way people expressed their thoughts when you have no idea how they expressed their thoughts in many suggestions proposed previous to 3.3, and even compromises how to make the FSS work with the ADS after it was introduced.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You call that depth eh? And you call removing a feature improvement?

Its certainly more depth than the old system. Its not a removal, its a replacement. Technically speaking, an upgrade, an improvement... if you think it is an improvement. As i said earlier, i'm 50/50 on whether its better or worse than the old system.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Its certainly more depth than the old system. Its not a removal, its a replacement. Technically speaking, an upgrade, an improvement... if you think it is an improvement. As i said earlier, i'm 50/50 on whether its better or worse than the old system.

If you replace something, you have to remove the other thing. If they had simply added the feature, I would still be playing Elite now. And it would have made sense to add the feature without removing the ADS.

1. The ADS would tell you information about the system. Based on that information, you could decide whether to investigate the system further.
2. If you decide to investigate further, you fire up the FSS and get more information on the planets in that system. Based upon that information you could decide whether to investigate planets further.
3. If you do decide to investigate further, you can go to the planets you're interested in and probe them or land on them,

The thing that kills exploration for me right now is that I am forced to play the mini game about every single system I go through. If I could have used the FSS only when I needed to (I find a system that could be interesting) it's frequency would go down a lot, and the grind aspect of it would go down a lot. When I first learned about the FSS I was positive about it. The mini game itself isn't the issue. The frequency is.

It's not better or worse than the old system. It's on par. The old system was lacking in depth. The new system is lacking in depth. You master the FSS in an hour or so and after that it just is busy work.

The duality I have about Frontier in this is, that I do believe there are developers who do care about the exploration mechanics. That's why I am very careful to direct my ire at Frontier, not the developers. I do believe the marketing aspect is the reason exploration gets as little priority as it does. A well thought out exploration system doesn't sell and doesn't make jazzy marketing. Pew pew pew and explosions do.