3rd person view.. Implementaion

[WeirdWizard]

- Obviously the game should have external views
- There is no meaningful combat advantage that cannot be easily designed out or around
- The immersion factor is pure personal preference, for me external views would increase immersion.
- Drone might provide interesting gameplay in and of themselves but as providers of worthwhile external views they are not the right solution.
- There does not need to be any contextualization or acknowledgment of the feature in the game lore, but if you must have one "its a simulation provided by the ships computer" will do fine.
- Adding external views is a pure win with no downsides. Those who find they enhance the game will enjoy it more, viral marketing will get a massive boost from the increased watchabilty of you tube videos and live streams. People who don't want it don't have to use it (zero impact).
- Simple external views is an easy and quick programming task with no additional assets needed. This would obviously not be the case for drones.

There are no worthwhile counter arguments, the only one with any value at all is "its for the Art darling". Thankfully this is a game, a piece of entertainment first and foremost, so please respect my ability to determine what I find more enjoyable and immersive. Give us the options and let us play our way.

Thanks and goodnight.

 

[Brasso]

3rd person without HUD. Nice to see your own ship, but useless in combat

Do it and watch some really cool you-tube vids start selling the game...

 

[Gédéon_Lecanard]

Advantage vs non advantage aside, it simply does not fit the concept of the game. 1st person view at all times. The only way this will happen is with drones or when we have EVA.

Debate as much as you like guys, but this one has really really been done.
/Thread.

And what would be the concept that absolutely forbids seeing your ship from outside, if you please?
Before you answer, remember: oufitting screens

 

[Astardes]

- Obviously the game should have external views
- There is no meaningful combat advantage that cannot be easily designed out or around
- The immersion factor is pure personal preference, for me external views would increase immersion.
- Drone might provide interesting gameplay in and of themselves but as providers of worthwhile external views they are not the right solution.
- There does not need to be any contextualization or acknowledgment of the feature in the game lore, but if you must have one "its a simulation provided by the ships computer" will do fine.
- Adding external views is a pure win with no downsides. Those who find they enhance the game will enjoy it more, viral marketing will get a massive boost from the increased watchabilty of you tube videos and live streams. People who don't want it don't have to use it (zero impact).
- Simple external views is an easy and quick programming task with no additional assets needed. This would obviously not be the case for drones.

There are no worthwhile counter arguments, the only one with any value at all is "its for the Art darling". Thankfully this is a game, a piece of entertainment first and foremost, so please respect my ability to determine what I find more enjoyable and immersive. Give us the options and let us play our way.

Thanks and goodnight.

/Thread

Have a + Rep

 

[JonR]

Frontier and First Encounters had external views and I don't remember that giving any advantage in combat. Used to be nice to watch your ship speeding away from a planet or station. Asking people to pay for skins and decals they can't see is an interesting concept. Maybe they should try selling some invisible clothes too ☺

 

[maboleth]

Not having a 3rd person while supplying screenshots and videos of the game showing 3rd person's view almost exclusively is more than ridiculous. For those saying it breaks the immersion, I will mention that both Frontier and First Encounters had this implemented very very well. In Frontier (1993) for example, you could rotate your external view in 360 degrees and zoom in and out, showing galaxy and your tiny ship or do an ultra-closeup of the radar, wheels of your aircraft and such.

So, 3rd person's view is not just a suggestion but a necessity, now more than ever!

 

[Riandor]

And what would be the concept that absolutely forbids seeing your ship from outside, if you please?
Before you answer, remember: oufitting screens

Outfitting screens, you outside of ship viewing said ship. Sort of pseudo EVA view.
The fact remains countless Devs have already given their view on this. Drones and cameras are being considered, EVA a planned expansion. That's it. The old games are the past, the new Elite has been designed with 1st person view only in mind, including VR.

I'm not saying anyone has to like it, but the discussion was had many many many times. It really is a flogged horse.

 

[WeirdWizard]

I'm not saying anyone has to like it, but the discussion was had many many many times. It really is a flogged horse.

Nothing is ever set in stone, especially when a game is still heavily under development like ED.

If enough people demand this feature then it will appear because it is easy, quick and it has no negatives that can't be easily designed around. It would be incredibly stupid of the devs to rule out such a feature on pure principle if they can make a bunch of people happy by providing it without adversely effecting the game in any way. It happened with an orbit lines toggle and it can happen with external views.

 

[Blake_Dragon]

. It really is a flogged horse.

Poor horse.. Someone call the galactic animal abuse society please, this abuse has to stop

 

[Astardes]

Fanboi's will argue black is white regardless. ED have obviously not had the time to implement a 3rd person view due to release demands, probably because there is no ship damage to be seen, or pilots within cockpits and the clipping issues to be addressed inside stations/ asteroids etc.

We can only hope that continued support of the game will result in this being addressed.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Fanboi's will argue black is white regardless. ED have obviously not had the time to implement a 3rd person view due to release demands, probably because there is no ship damage to be seen, or pilots within cockpits and the clipping issues to be addressed inside stations/ asteroids etc.

We can only hope that continued support of the game will result in this being addressed.

Not really, from what we know its a artistic/design decision.

 

[Riandor]

Nothing is ever set in stone, especially when a game is still heavily under development like ED.

If enough people demand this feature then it will appear because it is easy, quick and it has no negatives that can't be easily designed around. It would be incredibly stupid of the devs to rule out such a feature on pure principle if they can make a bunch of people happy by providing it without adversely effecting the game in any way. It happened with an orbit lines toggle and it can happen with external views.

No, orbit lines makes sense, it's your HUD that displays them. External views without drones/cameras do not. The difference is also the devs have given their view on this topic quite a few times, whereas orbital lines was always an open chat.

I'm not against debate, I'm just stating for those new to this that you really shouldn't get your hopes up. Any open development is likely to be reserved for the items they need to still implement, like wings, etc... And it's true, never say never, but I would bet money on you not seeing this feature without the use of an on ship camera drone.

 

[Astardes]

A ship camera drone seems like a very complex way of introducing 3rd person views. In any event, citing Orbit lines being ok because it's Hud doesn't really wash, if you wanted, you could create acceptable lore for anything. Heck we already have FTL for goodness sake while having drag in space...

It might be a personal choice that Mr Braben is wedded too, however, for me and lots of others, it is very limiting and prevents immersion not to be able to view your avatar in game.

It seems a strange marketing choice, not to allow people to create cool pictures/ video sequences which would help market the game. Advocacy is a great sales technique.

 

[Steve50]

I'm sorry that I haven't been using the forums since the original inception of the elite game. Nor have I bothered to read everyone of the hundred of thousands of posts which have occurred since then.

I humbly apologise to you ACenterForAnts and Cody for being such a naughty boy and asking a question which was relevant to me and not entertaining for you.

However if you would like to pay me cash, I will quite happily write posts which have your explicit seal of approval.

I charge £50 per hour.

.. or you could simply ignore this thread, it's not mandatory to read every one.

This might come as a huge shock to you mate but..

Believe it or not..

This forum actually has a search option

Happy Christmas

 

[Blake_Dragon]

The whole game seems designed to be from your point of view, you sitting behind the controls. Look down and you see your body, arms and legs, you see yourself manipulating the controls, reflecting your input on stick and throttle. Even in the station, the menu is a holographic pop up in your ship too, the only exception, is the outfitting at this time. Basically, all that should indicate it to be a design choice, good or bad, it's what FD envisioned and made. I think just adding a 3d external view without the use of the drones would destroy some of that I think. Like it or not, its what its designed to be, what FD wanted to make it. Personally, I like the game as is, the different ships each offering you their own unique view of the universe, some more restricted then other's. Like some people don't want the external view could turn it off, as the argument is often made (any potential advantages aside for a moment) if you can't be without an external view, there are other options for you to play too. This one is designed to be played as you. You sitting in the ship. That's the style of this game.

 

[bitstorm]

Quite amazing the fervour not having a 3rd person view causes.

Like it's actually a big deal or something.

 

[Soulstain]

If they truly didn't want 3rd person view from a design perspective then they should have come up with better cockpit designs. You wouldn't fight in a modern day fighter that you couldn't swivel your head around and look behind you. Look at the designs of all combat aircraft and you are basically sitting in a bubble. Some actually have rear view mirrors to help with blind spots. You can't argue against 3rd person views using the argument that it breaks immersion or gives tactical advantage. We are playing a computer game. We don't have peripheral vision when looking at a computer monitor, which is why ALL hard core sims allow 3rd person views. I don't just want it for vanity reasons, I want it for situational awareness. Something I would have in real life. I'm sure if we were ever to see spaceships in the future they would not be designed in a way that you couldn't see around you. If they were, you would have to have video feeds looking all around your ship.

I laugh when I read that people want to be able to sneak up on people. You do realize that we don't have real sim type radar right? We actually have a radar system that looks all around you telling what's behind you in this game. It's already arcade like, so there's no argument regarding 3rd person views when it comes to some type of cheat. That's just ridiculous. I wish we had only forward looking radar that we actually had to scan with to locate targets that were beyond visual range. Now that would be real.

"Quite amazing the fervour not having a 3rd person view causes.

Like it's actually a big deal or something. "

So by making that comment you actually proved that IT IS a big deal. It's wanted by a HUGE amount of the community. Some by the hard core sim group and some by the vanity view people. Either way it only seems to be people unaccustomed to what's expected in a sim that are arguing against it. Same as the people who argue against what most people expect to see in an MMO.

 

[S.H.A.D.O]

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[Soulstain]

So true! Easy fix, just implement the dang 3rd person view...lol

 

[Gédéon_Lecanard]

Outfitting screens, you outside of ship viewing said ship. Sort of pseudo EVA view.
The fact remains countless Devs have already given their view on this. Drones and cameras are being considered, EVA a planned expansion. That's it. The old games are the past, the new Elite has been designed with 1st person view only in mind, including VR.

I'm not saying anyone has to like it, but the discussion was had many many many times. It really is a flogged horse.

"You outside ship viewing said ship"? Jumping from pov to pov, sticking your nose right into your magically accessible hardpoint and a second later, in another one at the opposite side? That's not called a first person view, that's an external camera. Just so you know. And you have not answered about that "concept" concept.

As for staying the way it is, maybe. But I envy your confidence about that. The only other game being that rigid on the matter I can think about is X Rebirth. Definitely not the path ED wants to take. Fact is, right now all the polls have shown a majority for an external view.

Personally, I love the game, I really do. But lately, I have grown a bit tired with the routine. Exactly as I could have been with X2, X3 and its iterations if not for the scenery and the joy of scenery. And frankly, the X series (yes, even Rebirth), for all its flaws, has quite a bit more content than ED. In the end, we hope they will listen to the majority. For the good and the worst, but they should listen, as they already did, actually. It's good that no discussion is a flogged horse. Otherwise, the game itself would meet the same destiny fast.

BTW, I bought some skins to support ED. Until an external view is implemented, no more. Because at this point, skins are the most useless feature in the whole game.