Every thread I try to participate in derails [sad]
I'm sorry and ashamed.
I'm sorry and ashamed.
Yes, but clearly the game also wants people to play in open, and if that open then is a place where some players chose to attack them because they are an easy target? well people won't play in open, but yeah the thing is.
(Make note, i'm mostly referring to those that simply kill other people without interacting to them in any way.)
There are no PvP parts in Elite, none, nada, the game doesn't care so at best it is a PvE game which goes meh towards PvP and utterly doesn't care.
Here's the thing though, open does not equal PvP, it is entirely possible to play with other players in manners other then shooting at them, this is also part of what makes open, open.
And open is not pvp enabled, just because you can do something/that the game gives you a freedom to do something, does not mean you should do it, or do it in a way that harasses others.
People misusing their freedom to do certain actions, is why many a game has removed such freedoms from players.
No matter what kind of player you are, you are equally valid in playing the game as the game is designed.
If you are playing and expecting something that the game is not currently designed for, then you are in the wrong, and the objective view is that from the mechanics, so i wish these kinds of threads could stop being "you are wrong" "no you are wrong".
Killing another player, without interacting with them in any other way, only serves to make that player die, and that's it, the game itself might as well have seen an NPC blow up.
There is no in game gain from killing other players, you cannot 'win' a game situation by exclusively attacking players, because even if you say, manage to kill them constantly, to the game, it doesn't matter, at best its like killing an npc a ton of times, but since players don't have direct factions there's no really even that.
The fact is, and this historically denied by these people both here in Elite and in many many other games, is because people want to attack others, they want to affect other people that way, and knowingly do it. That is their action, and the players that take those actions are responsible for those actions, no amount of anything, not someone flying shieldless or anything else changes the fact that a person is responsible for their own actions. But there seems to be a trend of some people blaming others for actions they themselves did.
These are the problem people, these people do not want "PvP" at least in any way shape or form I understand it. PvP is a competition, is a battle, its an effort. It requires both to actively participate, if one part is not then it really isn't PvP, it is just a one sided beatdown.
The people that actually want PvP, and challenge and fight against those that fight back, and the odds are even enough that they can both win or lose, that is actual PvP, the challenge.
Yet in these kinds of arguments many on the side of those people will use the whole "git gud" "The world is dangerous" or similar statements, repeatedly, apparently unaware that, like in this case now with your post, what you are defending might not be what you think it is, and if you are actively defending people that do not want challenges, then at the very least don't berate others, and stand up for your own actions and admit to what you are doing.
I almost feel sorry for the blue equine who's going to come cloppin' along happily munching on clover and grass until he reaches this part of the valley. He's definitely going to drop some unicorn apples when he sees what we've been up to.
Actually no.
its more like, person gets blown up.
"Why was I blown up for no reason?"
"Because you are in open"
"But why blow up someone without interacting with them?"
"because, you couldn't defend yourself"
"but he had x ship which is much bigger and more powerful then my y ship"
"don't fly y ship/outfit it better/fly better"
"attacker shouldn't be attacking at all in a game like this"
"this is a PvP game"
"But this isn't PvP, its griefing and it shouldn't happen"
"Yes it is PvP, defender to stop complaining because this is what happens in these games"
LOOPING
{
"You are wrong"
"No, you are wrong"
}
Essentially, just go back through the plentiful amounts of threads like this. And really isn't a 50/50 split because several people are fine with PvP but against griefing, and most real PvP'ers are also against griefing.
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Make sure you also refer to all the times they then tell people to start in PG/Solo until you've got to a certain point - essentially the PvPers are enforcing a grind wall for all new players while simultaneously complaining about the game's grind wall for new players.
It's embarrassing from further away. "waaah why aren't people playing in open" "you shouldn't play in open until you've grinded until you're bored" "waaaah why is the game such a grind"
How about y'all stop putting loads of effort into making it one.
There is that, but then it'd end up being less a summary more just repeating of other threads. Though I want to point out that this really isn't the "PvP'ers" as you state it, because actual PvP'ers find such griefing actually revolting, because it isn't providing a challenge and people are using PvP as an excuse. Its people that want to be an to put it mildly, it is most definitely not people looking for an actual fight.
Depends on who you ask. Only so much true scotsman to go around.
It's not really convincing once you've seen the "good guys" talk about clearing instances of traders that they were meant to be defending cos they got bored that there were no PvPers coming through, or once you've seen enough of them talking about "teaching them a lesson" as a defence to shooting out people with no shields or with a docking computer.
The good guy bit is as much of a digi-flexing exercise as the rest.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
*cough cough*
If I may politely interject here, that would be a negative on the argumentum ad hominem.
This is great.
The examples are excellent.
https://laurencetennant.com/bonds/adhominem.html
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Well yeah, who calls themselves "PvP'ers" and who are actual, though dunno if there are any 'good guys' as such, there's the vocal community members sure, but they don't represent the whole.
But from my view, that PvP'ers are those that seek challenges against other players, yeah those griefing and attacking only the weakest targets, aren't real PvP'ers.
This statement is funny when reflected by the fact that the non-PvP oriented OP and a slew of other non-PvPers are the only one's complaining in this thread.
Quit trying to confuse me, Bob.
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How is that even a relevant factor? There are multiple threads on this site as you are aware.
Bingo. All you see are the ones who are good at making it sound good - the others we watch appear occasionally before going down in a blaze of glory-ish as they can't phrase it so well.
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Well, I'd say it's relevant in the sense that while we are conversing together on a thread which exists for no other purpose then to complain about the inevitability of being lonely, defenseless and violated by "bad people" in Open and I can point at literally dozens of excerpts contained within of people venting their sadness, you on the other hand would not only need to leave this thread in order to find support for your statement, but also dig quite deep to provide relevant quotes that I'm pretty confident would prove to be outliers, anyway.
Perhaps the word I'm looking for is "irony?"
Edit: you will note that I have not once attacked anybody, I'm simply defending a viewpoint that is often maligned.
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The entire comment was in response to one talking about going and finding all the other threads *facepalm*
Attempting to dismiss by belittlement and sneering.
Haha sure
Very easy to find all those complaints. I literally see them daily! EVERY SINGLE DAY.No but it does appear to be another "i" word. You should look up what irony means I think.
You seem un-necessarily inclined to negativity, my friend. Besides, with my beautiful bushy mustache there is simply no way you can see enough of my face to see if I'm sneering or simply smiling.
Edit: the other "i word" would be "illustrative."
Edit: the other "i word" would be "illustrative."
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Don't be, I'm quite impressed with your ability to derail a thread.
I rely on this happening, otherwise the tedium of constantly posting and explaining "The Wall of Information" would drive me insane without your diversions.
Please keep it up, you're holding my sanity together.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Edit: @Mouse, honorable mention for justifying clogging a few posts above
Yup only when "Seal clubbers" invade a PVE PG.
+1000 lbs of Cubeo Bacon!
And it is funny how they can never see the irony in their statements either.
Sadly agree
I call them Dominators because that is what they want to do.. they don't want PVP even though they claim they do... they want to dominate others... they fight against others where there is no risk to their own ships.
Eh, seems a bit much, since they aren't dominating anyone but the weakest people, against anyone decent they generally from my experience in many games are the one's running away and complaining. But yeah, I get what you are saying.