A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

Actually I think he might be right, or at least there is something going on beyond the local system. As I said I have been moving a lot of a certain item in the past few days, and I am definitely seeing drastic price changes in neighboring systems.

KISSing for a moment... are these places owned by the same faction perhaps?

It wouldn't be unusual given the global impact of states that the "economic viability" (I guess?) of a faction would influence all it's holdings.
 
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Deleted member 38366

D
I remember having some discussions about the effect of "many mini-inputs".

When I tried some with trading (did Salvaging runs on Planets and sold the legal salvage for full price - naturally a broad range of stuff), the effect was pretty much non-existent.
Only total sales price achieved moved something - at least a tiny little bit.

However...

After making some near-field Exploration runs, I sold every System one-by-one.
Old paranoid habit, ever since I saw many "missing" Tags from Explorers which I knew from many other Systems were extremely thorough. Never made sense, so I kinda thought those tags got lost due to Packet loss or something when using the "Sell Page" function.

Anyway, the effect of selling as little as 750k-1M in Map Data (50-70 Systems) was massive.
Instead of getting 1-2% that I expected, I saw almost limit-up moves each time, well exceeding 10%.

After benchmarking it, it appears the Multiplication factor for Many-Inputs using UC goes far higher than I anticipated and diminishing returns seem to kick in only very late. Might be as high as a 10x or even 15x Multi that's being applied.
Seeking a controlled 2.3% Influence move in one System (~150k Pop, 30-40% Influence bracket, State Boom), I calculated a "classic" single Input of about 1.5-1.8M Cr needed.
I handed in a total of 5 System Maps, totalling about 200k and 300k post-1st Discovery Bonus.
Influence movement achieved : 2.3%

Since I always sold Exploration runs with 1st Discoveries that singular way, this is the 1st time I've noticed such extreme moves for so little input. Thus I reckon this specifically came into existence with V2.2, if I'm not mistaken.
Either way, selling Map Data one-by-one is currently a very powerful BGS tool.
To me, it appears total amount worth of Map Data is being directly multiplied with amount of Maps sold - upto a certiain limit of course.
 
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On an aside... does anyone know if refueling/rearming/repairing at a station helps the station controller? I'd have thought not...

outfitting did, than was patched out... is it back?

in any case it will up the number of actions in a system.

Realised I never followed this up either... I think I was genuinely just being resisted in our war (we won, anyway)... but it went like this:

Day 0: 64% (Us) vs 25% (them)
Day 1: 53% (Us) vs 34% (them) - 55 pilots in last 24 hours
Day 2: 47% (Us) vs 42% (them) - 50ish pilots in last 24 hours
Day 3: 48% (Us) vs 39% (them) - 30ish pilots in last 24 hours

So, I genuinely think we were just being resisted (though interestingly, not by massacre stackers; I was taking a few which caused the opposition to now be in lockdown pending... should have seen us in lockdown pending too if there were counter-massacre missions being run).

So it's probably just some actual resistance. However, it's interesting to note that between Day 0-1 and Day 1-2, I was refuelling/repairing/rearming at a station owned by the opposed faction. Day 2-3 I stopped doing that. Possibly just coincidental though.
 
KISSing for a moment... are these places owned by the same faction perhaps?

It wouldn't be unusual given the global impact of states that the "economic viability" (I guess?) of a faction would influence all it's holdings.

Most of them yes, but others too.
 
After benchmarking it, it appears the Multiplication factor for Many-Inputs using UC goes far higher than I anticipated and diminishing returns seem to kick in only very late. Might be as high as a 10x or even 15x Multi that's being applied.
Seeking a controlled 2.3% Influence move in one System (~150k Pop, 30-40% Influence bracket, State Boom), I calculated a "classic" single Input of about 1.5-1.8M Cr needed.
I handed in a total of 5 System Maps, totalling about 200k and 300k post-1st Discovery Bonus.
Influence movement achieved : 2.3%

Since I always sold Exploration runs with 1st Discoveries that singular way, this is the 1st time I've noticed such extreme moves for so little input. Thus I reckon this specifically came into existence with V2.2, if I'm not mistaken.
Either way, selling Map Data one-by-one is currently a very powerful BGS tool.
To me, it appears total amount worth of Map Data is being directly multiplied with amount of Maps sold - upto a certiain limit of course.

I've been handing in exploration data that way for a long time and in systems with that low population I regularly see 5% from as few as 10 system's data. It doesn't have to be valuable data either - honk and scan the star while fuel scooping will do.
 
I've been handing in exploration data that way for a long time and in systems with that low population I regularly see 5% from as few as 10 system's data. It doesn't have to be valuable data either - honk and scan the star while fuel scooping will do.

Counter based, not value based. There's a shock!
 
Has anyone noticed where the inf goes when you cash in a bounty via interstellar factors contact (IFC)?

Does it go to that station? I doubt this.
Or to the faction that paid it? As it should, but...
If it's the faction that paid it, which system they are in if they are in multiple systems (home/closest)?

I'm asking because I'm getting bounties unintentionally when getting interdicted on a mission (have to kill them to get to destination), and I don't want that faction to get inf from the bounty. I could fly to their 'home' system to cash it, since I don't care what happens there, but I have found an IFC in an adjacent system that is much closer.
 
Or to the faction that paid it? As it should, but...
If it's the faction that paid it, which system they are in if they are in multiple systems (home/closest)?

it goes to the faction that issued them, as others have tested and reported in here.

to which system, if faction is in more than one - no idea.
 
Has anyone noticed where the inf goes when you cash in a bounty via interstellar factors contact (IFC)?

Does it go to that station? I doubt this.
Or to the faction that paid it? As it should, but...
If it's the faction that paid it, which system they are in if they are in multiple systems (home/closest)?

I'm asking because I'm getting bounties unintentionally when getting interdicted on a mission (have to kill them to get to destination), and I don't want that faction to get inf from the bounty. I could fly to their 'home' system to cash it, since I don't care what happens there, but I have found an IFC in an adjacent system that is much closer.

From what I understand, if the faction is present in the system, they'll get the inf in that system (evidently, to close the obvious loophole). If not, the faction's home system will. Further testing is needed.
 
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Question!

For example,

FactionA (Controlling). INF = 45%
FactionB. INF = 30%
FactionC. INF = 10%

I want to back FactionB and trigger war between them to change the controlling faction to FactionB. What if I overshoot by doing too much FactionB missions and killed too many FactionA ships and it become like this:

FactionA (Controlling). INF = 10%
FactionB. INF = 45%
FactionC. INF = 10%

FactionA will war against FactionC? And I need to wait till this war over OR keep increasing till FactionB INF goes over 60% to trigger Next war?
 
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this imho. but that requires changing influences massively in 1 tick.

Oh wow that's stupid :eek:
The system im working on have very few population and can swing very fast, last time I did casual missions session next tick i stole 15% and gave influence to myFaction.

controlling faction should priority otherfaction that have the highest influence in the system imo [knocked out]
 
I know that the whole 1t trading topic has kinda quietened again,,, but now that I've been able to do trading for the first time in forever because <reasons>, I was reminded of the, dare I call it, "gentlemans agreement" I came to with someone via PMs about the topic.

Basically, we concluded that there's too many "legitimate" gameplay techniques that attract the "transactional" type of influence. I won't list them all here, because it's slightly pointless. But the accord we came to was pretty simple.

If you sell or buy something, buy/sell it in one transaction.

Now, on the surface that *seems* a bit "duh". But what does this mean in practice?

If I'm at an Extraction economy, and want to do a run to a High Tech+Refinery economy, I might load up on all palladium, ship it, and were I a 1-tonner I'd sell them one at a time and make huge influence gains. If I were to sell it all, i'd make "one transactions" worth. But fundamentally people 1t trade for one reason. Influence gain. It's definitely not for profit, because you're much better off selling everything at once for efficiencies sake.

So instead, in a "fairer" way, I know a HT/Ref economy has about 20 different metals. So instead of loading up my python with 200t of Palladium, I load it with 10t of each type of metal I can make a profit on. That way, when I sell, I sell each commodity at once, but get 20 "transactions" occurring for the purposes of influence. This makes a lot more sense anyway as the markets should benefit from diversity of trade, rather than pure profit. You could still have a cobra and load 1t of each for a similar impact, but the net effect of a larger ship is more profit.

It also legitimises the technique in a sensible way. We can argue back and forth whether someone selling 200t of palladium 1t at a time is exploiting the game or not, but it's pretty obvious someone simply shipping a variety of goods to hedge their bets about which will be more profitable, is not trying to exploit the system, and there's a definite case that trading a diverse range should have more impact on a system (satisfying a variety of needs, rather than a single one).

So, yeah... basically;
- When trading, trade everything at once.
- Consequently, trade a single good for profit, and a range for influence

People will still 1t trade... but at least this is a way you can do it with some sportsmanlike attitude to it. Think of it like selling exploration by page, rather than by individual entry.

Just some food for thought.
 
So instead, in a "fairer" way, I know a HT/Ref economy has about 20 different metals. So instead of loading up my python with 200t of Palladium, I load it with 10t of each type of metal I can make a profit on. That way, when I sell, I sell each commodity at once, but get 20 "transactions" occurring for the purposes of influence. This makes a lot more sense anyway as the markets should benefit from diversity of trade, rather than pure profit. You could still have a cobra and load 1t of each for a similar impact, but the net effect of a larger ship is more profit.

I've been doing exactly this with a T9 filled with 10-30 tons of pretty much everything that I know there is a demand for from a round trip on a fetch mission or returning from a delivery. I've made over 25% difference in two weeks in a 3.5 billion system.
 
From what I understand, if the faction is present in the system, they'll get the inf in that system (evidently, to close the obvious loophole). If not, the faction's home system will. Further testing is needed.

To cash a bounty or bond with a Factor the issuing faction or superpower MUST NOT be present in the system. If they are the option isn't even available.

Has anyone noticed where the inf goes when you cash in a bounty via interstellar factors contact (IFC)?

This should help...

Combat Bonds - the influence boost goes to the issuing faction in the war system, this was tested with a faction who are in multiple systems

Superpower Bounties - the influence boost goes to the faction that controls the station with the factor

Faction Bounties - with an issuing faction who are only in one system the influence boost goes to them in that system, my tests on multi-system factions had some outside interference so I need to repeat them but I think the influence boost goes to the issuing faction in their home system
 
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Question!

For example,

FactionA (Controlling). INF = 45%
FactionB. INF = 30%
FactionC. INF = 10%

I want to back FactionB and trigger war between them to change the controlling faction to FactionB. What if I overshoot by doing too much FactionB missions and killed too many FactionA ships and it become like this:

FactionA (Controlling). INF = 10%
FactionB. INF = 45%
FactionC. INF = 10%

FactionA will war against FactionC? And I need to wait till this war over OR keep increasing till FactionB INF goes over 60% to trigger Next war?

The only way for you to overshoot Faction A like that is if they are already in a conflict in another system, otherwise you will equalise with them. If that is the case then they will not have a conflict with Faction C either because the conflict in the other system will block that that too. Remember also that you will take some influence from all the other factions in the system if you only push Faction B.

Assuming you can push Faction B enough in one day and there is no blocking conflict I would expect day 2 to look more like:

Faction A (Controlling) INF = 47% conflict pending
Faction B INF = 47% conflict pending
Remaining Factions INF = 6%
 
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I've been doing exactly this with a T9 filled with 10-30 tons of pretty much everything that I know there is a demand for from a round trip on a fetch mission or returning from a delivery. I've made over 25% difference in two weeks in a 3.5 billion system.

Can't rep, so have cookies instead :)
 
I know that the whole 1t trading topic has kinda quietened again,,, but now that I've been able to do trading for the first time in forever because <reasons>, I was reminded of the, dare I call it, "gentlemans agreement" I came to with someone via PMs about the topic.

Basically, we concluded that there's too many "legitimate" gameplay techniques that attract the "transactional" type of influence. I won't list them all here, because it's slightly pointless. But the accord we came to was pretty simple.

If you sell or buy something, buy/sell it in one transaction.

Now, on the surface that *seems* a bit "duh". But what does this mean in practice?

If I'm at an Extraction economy, and want to do a run to a High Tech+Refinery economy, I might load up on all palladium, ship it, and were I a 1-tonner I'd sell them one at a time and make huge influence gains. If I were to sell it all, i'd make "one transactions" worth. But fundamentally people 1t trade for one reason. Influence gain. It's definitely not for profit, because you're much better off selling everything at once for efficiencies sake.

So instead, in a "fairer" way, I know a HT/Ref economy has about 20 different metals. So instead of loading up my python with 200t of Palladium, I load it with 10t of each type of metal I can make a profit on. That way, when I sell, I sell each commodity at once, but get 20 "transactions" occurring for the purposes of influence. This makes a lot more sense anyway as the markets should benefit from diversity of trade, rather than pure profit. You could still have a cobra and load 1t of each for a similar impact, but the net effect of a larger ship is more profit.

It also legitimises the technique in a sensible way. We can argue back and forth whether someone selling 200t of palladium 1t at a time is exploiting the game or not, but it's pretty obvious someone simply shipping a variety of goods to hedge their bets about which will be more profitable, is not trying to exploit the system, and there's a definite case that trading a diverse range should have more impact on a system (satisfying a variety of needs, rather than a single one).

So, yeah... basically;
- When trading, trade everything at once.
- Consequently, trade a single good for profit, and a range for influence

People will still 1t trade... but at least this is a way you can do it with some sportsmanlike attitude to it. Think of it like selling exploration by page, rather than by individual entry.

Just some food for thought.

Fair is in the eye of the beholder. If I can 1t-outmatch an entire player group who would otherwise go around stomping on everyone, well tha'ts definitely fair to me. Plus, 1t trading is not something you do lightly. It's one of the most boring, tiring and time consuming things you can do. I am paying with hours and hours of my life, so I call it fair :)
 
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