dynamicbob
Banned
Id argue for a more graduated and complex solution rather than a straight up removal or rework
A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim
- Thread starter Walt Kerman
- Start date
Id argue for a more graduated and complex solution rather than a straight up removal or rework
I think a lot of people just went straight for Anarchy because being a lawful government stooge isn't "cool".
On top of that it means "oh yeah, smuggling, crime, mad profits!". Well, the missions anarchy factions offer around smuggling/piracy are relatively lucrative... but the irony is the black market works the complete opposite.
- Everything is legal (except Toxic Waste, UAs and UPs), so there's no "illegal" wares to sell on the black market and make better-than-commodity-market profits
- The only things you can sell on the black market are "stolen", so they don't fetch a decent profit, and the sales hurt the controlling faction's influence
- It's really, really easy to hurt an anarchy faction with a black market, despite the illegal goods issue.
I guess another advantage is you can pursue KWS-obtained bounties without repercussion, but, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Another advantage is the ability to kill other faction ships in that system without repercussion in order to keep their influence down, but again it's ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it makes you hostile, which is a pointless state to be in at the moment.
There's a recursive exploit you could do if that were the case (tl;dr steal goods from the anarchy faction and sell them back to them... you'll find the sales increase your rep faster than stealing them decreases it, and such activity could infinitely increase the faction's influence if the sale occurs on the standard market)
On top of that it means "oh yeah, smuggling, crime, mad profits!". Well, the missions anarchy factions offer around smuggling/piracy are relatively lucrative... but the irony is the black market works the complete opposite.
- Everything is legal (except Toxic Waste, UAs and UPs), so there's no "illegal" wares to sell on the black market and make better-than-commodity-market profits
- The only things you can sell on the black market are "stolen", so they don't fetch a decent profit, and the sales hurt the controlling faction's influence
- It's really, really easy to hurt an anarchy faction with a black market, despite the illegal goods issue.
I guess another advantage is you can pursue KWS-obtained bounties without repercussion, but, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Another advantage is the ability to kill other faction ships in that system without repercussion in order to keep their influence down, but again it's ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it makes you hostile, which is a pointless state to be in at the moment.
There's a recursive exploit you could do if that were the case (tl;dr steal goods from the anarchy faction and sell them back to them... you'll find the sales increase your rep faster than stealing them decreases it, and such activity could infinitely increase the faction's influence if the sale occurs on the standard market)
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That's an issue FDev should really fix, since the exploit for damaging influence is present with Black Markets already.
Fix would be pretty easy if it could identify the source of said cargo and nullify influence effects for the factions if it was gained in that system.
True - I was missing the implications behind your instructions. Drawing up tables of distances is usually one of the first tasks when examining local systems, so it's easy to take this knowledge for granted.
Personally, I find using EDDB extremely useful.
In the systems tab, ensure *Only Populated Systems * is yes and put your system in *Reference System*.
Et viola an ordered list. Check validity of zero pop ones. Copy & paste into a spreadsheet keeping the links. Build dossier............... etc.
Not foolproof, But close.
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I am not sure there is anything particularly wrong with the way Anarchy factions work. I recognize I may be in the minority here, but consider this:
When the philosophy of Anarchy (presumably) is 'no control', then why should such factions have the same means and organisation for control, as some other faction types? Black Markets, at some level at least, require a degree of organisation and control - eg a criminal network must receive goods, and have the means to pay. I suppose I am say, let us not confuse anarchy with criminal, which I think a lot of people do.
When the philosophy of Anarchy (presumably) is 'no control', then why should such factions have the same means and organisation for control, as some other faction types? Black Markets, at some level at least, require a degree of organisation and control - eg a criminal network must receive goods, and have the means to pay. I suppose I am say, let us not confuse anarchy with criminal, which I think a lot of people do.
There is the root of the problem. The game certainly confuses anarchy with criminal. Most of the time the pirate who interdicts you will be from an anarchy faction. This certainly hurts the faction's influence because half those pirate ships get shot. Fair enough, but it shouldn't put them into lockdown as well.
Many anarchy factiosn are clearly pirate factions. While non-pirate anarchy factions should be possible, such as hippies or tribal type communities, the game doesn't support them. By default they will be pirate factions just because they are anarchy.
There needs to be different types of anarchy, so that there is a distinction between psychopaths and flower children. Until there is, anarchy = criminal.
If you wand to debate this, I've created a thread: Anarchy In The UK
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My BGS chops are a little rusty, however, I have to agree with these...since in an Anarchy system the market itself would be a black market...
Rather than authority it would make sense that there would be either high bounty protectors and/or pirates doing shakedowns, etc. Killing these would not count towards the BGS locally...but could be used by neighboring systems to set up hunter/killer missions....helping to change their system status to and from different levels.
Building on htat Roybe, it would be nice if the pirates that you see in a system weren't always from the local factions. So if you were within 15-20ly of a pirate controlled system, you often get pirates from that system rather than the local ones. It would provide a reason for the "Kill Pirates" missions. The way it is currently, the only way a pirate faction can bother you is by expanding into your system.
Totally agree it needs more nuance.
Ok, update on my progress. Our faction is now slightly over 60%, still nothing happening, although that value was only hit early today, but all others in that system are under 10%. How can i be sure that that is the correct value? Ive been hearing so many different values i dont even know anymore. Really frustrating to try and play a game without knowing the whole rule set...
- the backgroundsimulation is a blackbox. you can like or dislike it (i dislike it), but infos backed by official quotes are sparse, some infos are even officially denied, and most valuable info you'll find is found out and backed by player testing, where errors are always possible - and those "rules" can be invalidated by updates without further notice, besides the usual bugs. if you can't live with that, don't play the BGS.
- make sure, that the controlling faction is in no pending, active or recovering conflict state (war, civil war, election) in any other system - by checking the faction summary in any station they are present. in most cases it is another conflict blocking your conflict.
- push on. if you hit 70% without a conflict triggered, when there is no blocking conflict, file a bug report.
- share your findings here
Check the status of the controlling faction. Likely it is already in conflict somewhere.
As someone who used to spruik 70% as the value to trigger a war... I can definitely tell you 70% *isn't* the value, but neither is 60%... it's somewhere above that. Last conflict I triggered was around 65%, but that was having jumped from 61% the previous day, when no conflict was triggered.
But like goemon mentioned... the BGS is a big, black box and functions more like guidelines than a hard set of rules (e.g go look for FD's response to anyone asking exactly when the tick occurs
)It's more like HF skywave radio communications. You can cut your antenna the perfect length, have perfect takeoff angle, perfect atmospheric conditions, perfect earthing, perfect equipment, but you just happen to get spannered by the one pocket of sporadic E on that day.
EDIT: Also, what Sentenza said..
You can see this in the faction status summary in the local galnet feed.
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So.....
Strange happenings in hamster land.
"a" tick happened between 14:00 and 15:00 UTC today that changed yesterday's inf values, but did not change any states.
"current tick time" (20-20:30 UTC) has come and gone, and no states or inf has changed.
This is .... confusing. We don't know whether we're in 3rd or 4th day of a war. Whether 2/21 ticked twice and today's tick is still to come, or whether the 15:00 UTC tick was today's, but if so, why did states not change?
Very.... odd.
Strange happenings in hamster land.
"a" tick happened between 14:00 and 15:00 UTC today that changed yesterday's inf values, but did not change any states.
"current tick time" (20-20:30 UTC) has come and gone, and no states or inf has changed.
This is .... confusing. We don't know whether we're in 3rd or 4th day of a war. Whether 2/21 ticked twice and today's tick is still to come, or whether the 15:00 UTC tick was today's, but if so, why did states not change?
Very.... odd.
_trent_
Volunteer Moderator
Very odd. We were expecting to go into civil war at the tick today (pending since Sunday). We're still in boom, pending Civil War.
Add your commentary if you wish: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/331428-BGS-Tick-without-States-changing
dynamicbob
Banned
What if any changes are coming in 2.3 i must ponder and speculate, they did say in this weeks racing livestream that this patch affects nearly every aspect of the game ( including some probable small or large BGS changes or additions)
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
Can confirm at least 3 state changes have not occured. Election in its 6th day, war 2 days after system gov changed changed hands and the closest gap is 75%
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dynamicbob
Banned
i wonder if the BGS has been stopped so database copies can be made for the beta, didnt the same thing happen just prior to 2.2 beta for about a week on and off ?