Glad to see some of these changes, but I am curious as to the implications of "Balanced faction effects from selling commodities with a zero purchase price" since mining technically produces items with zero purchase price... but so does abandoning missions.
A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim
- Thread starter Walt Kerman
- Start date
Glad to see some of these changes, but I am curious as to the implications of "Balanced faction effects from selling commodities with a zero purchase price" since mining technically produces items with zero purchase price... but so does abandoning missions.
There is also mention of fixing the "exploit" from selling stuffs from abandoned missions, so maybe this won't impact the BGS quite so much. But what it should do now is seriously tank your reputation, so repeatedly abandoning missions won't work for long.
Scavenged items will also apply for zero purchase price.
This concerns me greatly.
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
The lowest we have seen is 61.1 now
2.3 change: Faction influence change increased from redeeming bounty vouchers
I don't think I like this one. We already have rep grinders, who don't even know/care about impacting the BGS, borking wars in favor of Fed/Imp (vs Ind/Alliance) because all they care about is rep grind, and only show up when the war starts.
Now the same sort, I would guess, that grind a res just for the $$, will impact the BGS even more.
Will this not just make the controlling faction even harder to oppose, leading to a bit more stagnant BGS?
This will also have the effect of Fed/Imp controlling factions being even more invulnerable, right?
Is that what FD wants? Fed/Imp large and in charge, and Ind/Alliance in the role of cannon fodder?
I don't think I like this one. We already have rep grinders, who don't even know/care about impacting the BGS, borking wars in favor of Fed/Imp (vs Ind/Alliance) because all they care about is rep grind, and only show up when the war starts.
Now the same sort, I would guess, that grind a res just for the $$, will impact the BGS even more.
Will this not just make the controlling faction even harder to oppose, leading to a bit more stagnant BGS?
This will also have the effect of Fed/Imp controlling factions being even more invulnerable, right?
Is that what FD wants? Fed/Imp large and in charge, and Ind/Alliance in the role of cannon fodder?
That depends.
In one faction i help out, the consistent problem that was occurring while trying to gain influence for an expansion was being undercut by bounty hunting. The effect was over-hunting beyond the influence cap for the desired faction, but still handing in bounties for other factions. The result was stagnation in its growth as the headway was countered by other faction influence growth. This change will only magnify it, potentially to the point of a pure balance where it won't change it from there, or at worst bring it to where controlling faction of hunting grounds will be struggling to maintain control. It comes down to how the influence is managed being solid numbers like +5 then needing to balance at the end since you add up all the work its over 100%. It gets screwy, but it adds up to loosing ground if it gets too bad.
I fear more for the other bit, the reduction in influence shifts from murder, fines and such. If this pronounces it too much it will severely limit the ability of factions to shift control in a system with high enough player traffic. If murder can't have enough of an impact, it'll be near-impossible to swing influence and dislodge a controlling faction in a typical head-to-head comparison.
might be the end of mining for the BGS ... :-/
i share both concerns.
concerning "random" bounty hunting - it will most probably stabilise any controlling faction - at least if they own all stations, and if they are alligned with a superpower. have in mind they get double bounty transactions via their bounties and superpower bounties - which the system will give more often, if superpower alligned.
concerning murder - i'm not unhappy about a reduced influence effect, because it also reduced the influence effect by random bounty hunters. might be balanced with above - but only if the state effect isn't nerfed, too.
basically i forsee that the most likely tactic to flip system control will be now, to shoot a controlling faction into lockdown, and raise the other faction(s) influence - which only will work fine, if the controlling faction does not control all
stations.
it is for sure stabilizing control.
I've learned not to try to predict precisely the outcomes of bgs changes. If skimmer griding is gone cmdrs will move on to the next good earner which will likely screw the are as they are located in!
Will be interesting to see the changes. Murder was always somewhat overpowered as a mechanic, especially in the absence of any real risk. Even then it still couldn't cope with the skimmer hordes.
Will be interesting to see the changes. Murder was always somewhat overpowered as a mechanic, especially in the absence of any real risk. Even then it still couldn't cope with the skimmer hordes.
and thats rather stupid, when yes mining is 100% profit, but I swear no one at FD ever mined a full cargo cutter full of material, otherwise they would know wthat simply tradig is causing more profit/hour than mining does. So there is no need to nerf minign for the BGS since the guy who mined for that big impact lost a lot of time impactign it a lot more by simple trading runs back and forth. FD hardly knows their own effort and effects value of various tasks done in thir game.
The most important for the game would be allowing players to align with a minor factions and let these players actions impact the BGS more than the random guys comong by. Lots of people impactt he BGS by the pure grind the game is.
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_trent_
Volunteer Moderator
We've found boom-time mining missions to be extremely effective at pushing influence, so I'm curious as to whether they mean that this effect will be changed or if they just mean selling stuff you've mined at the markets. The former is a bit overpowered at the moment, but I agree that nerfing the latter would render it a pointless activity in terms of the BGS.
Fix a rare opportunity for a conflict to start immediately after ending early
Yay
Fixed faction influence change from smuggling weapons
Anyone actually got info on what's that about? Just because it's explicitly talking about weapons, but other influence things
Faction influence change reduced from murder, interdiction and assault crimes
Vapor change. If you want to affect a controlling faction this is the worst way to do it because you risk becoming hostile, which is nothing but bad news.
Faction influence change increased from redeeming bounty vouchers
I'm not too worried about this. Grinders gonna grind, and unlike the CZ mission stacking bounties can be got almost anywhere... sure primarily from RES, but they're everywhere. War states and specific conditions were much more conducive to attracting game-breaking amounts of players to a system to farm credits or rep.
Balanced faction effects from selling commodities with a zero purchase price
Yeah, knowing more about that change would be good (if it's a decrease or an increase).
Removed faction reputation gains from smuggling cargo at a black market
Shame, but at least it patches that hole.
Improved local news articles when faction conflicts end
Haven't seen this yet, but sounds ok?
Yay
Fixed faction influence change from smuggling weapons
Anyone actually got info on what's that about? Just because it's explicitly talking about weapons, but other influence things
Faction influence change reduced from murder, interdiction and assault crimes
Vapor change. If you want to affect a controlling faction this is the worst way to do it because you risk becoming hostile, which is nothing but bad news.
Faction influence change increased from redeeming bounty vouchers
I'm not too worried about this. Grinders gonna grind, and unlike the CZ mission stacking bounties can be got almost anywhere... sure primarily from RES, but they're everywhere. War states and specific conditions were much more conducive to attracting game-breaking amounts of players to a system to farm credits or rep.
Balanced faction effects from selling commodities with a zero purchase price
Yeah, knowing more about that change would be good (if it's a decrease or an increase).
Removed faction reputation gains from smuggling cargo at a black market
Shame, but at least it patches that hole.
Improved local news articles when faction conflicts end
Haven't seen this yet, but sounds ok?
dynamicbob
Banned
Fix a rare opportunity for a conflict to start immediatley after ending early - Yay - but will it slow other war states down elsewhere.
Fixed faction influence change from smuggling weapons - assuming illegal weapons, or that different categories of trade goods have differing effects - this should be enhanced for future expansion of the background sim to incorporate specific trade goods having different effects.
Faction Inf change from murder, interdiction and assult - balance only, but being wanted isnt always bad if youre shooting someone u want to make loose control.
Bounty vouchers, most players are here for combat anyway , so yeah handing in bounties ( and you can always kws if you want to not hand in for the ruling faction but help minor factions)
Sounds like selling cargo with a zero purchase price might have a legal/illegal spread. Unknown artifacts bled anarchy factions dry in my UA selling blitz
Anarchy factions should get a boost for smuggling cargo at a black market - but the hole is closed so i agree neutral
Improved news articles - ive seen them in 2.3 and its much better structured. Next step is minor faction local community goals spawned under "special circumstances" Fdev can then be notified the conditions are met and monitor for local small scale changes if theres enough commander support behind each state - this could feed into a localised galnet in systems that minor facitn is present in, if the activity conditions by commanders isnt met they basically vanish and fail after a few days
Fixed faction influence change from smuggling weapons - assuming illegal weapons, or that different categories of trade goods have differing effects - this should be enhanced for future expansion of the background sim to incorporate specific trade goods having different effects.
Faction Inf change from murder, interdiction and assult - balance only, but being wanted isnt always bad if youre shooting someone u want to make loose control.
Bounty vouchers, most players are here for combat anyway , so yeah handing in bounties ( and you can always kws if you want to not hand in for the ruling faction but help minor factions)
Sounds like selling cargo with a zero purchase price might have a legal/illegal spread. Unknown artifacts bled anarchy factions dry in my UA selling blitz
Anarchy factions should get a boost for smuggling cargo at a black market - but the hole is closed so i agree neutral
Improved news articles - ive seen them in 2.3 and its much better structured. Next step is minor faction local community goals spawned under "special circumstances" Fdev can then be notified the conditions are met and monitor for local small scale changes if theres enough commander support behind each state - this could feed into a localised galnet in systems that minor facitn is present in, if the activity conditions by commanders isnt met they basically vanish and fail after a few days
I guess frontier des rather bad analysis on these, they probabyl look like:
what was done: change by X % due to a mining unload of like 5M "woah HUGE!!!"
vs a single trade delivery profit 1.7M changint it by only Y % "Just low, loosk fine".
And this shows very much as with most missions that FD never cares aout the money/hour ratio. gathering 5M in mining asset surely takes a lot more time than one hour, while many common trade routs can give easily 8m-12m per hour. So even when this single mined unload does have a huge impact, a dedicated miner will overall not have as much influence as a dedicated trader. But FD enver understodd the reward/effort ratio of their game.
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I think it's intended to help defending faction influence against drop while in war, as we discussed recently.
That makes sense. But it will likely have the effect I describe when war state isn't on. Hopefully, the 'tune' that FD made is not too much.
This is going to be yet another nail in the coffin for anarchy factions.
Does murdering an opposing factions ships in election effect their influence at all?
But will these finally be legal to obtain if the cargo was liberated from an unwanted state--ie one isn't pirating it?
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I'm pretty sure that only peaceful actions apply during elections
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Can anyone else second this?
I hope that all salvage doesn't become legal. I like the change when escape pods became legal, as that makes sense. But flogging cargo from under the noses of rescue ships should still count as illegal.