A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[goemon]

Controlling Faction of Megaship changed by lost election , other Megaship faction expanded

heads up:

the first mega ship changed its controlling faction by an election. looks as if the BGS treats megaships like other assets.

and faction of the mega ship fisher rest expanded from their 100% influence system aldebaran, following the usual rules. might be interesting to test whether the same can be done the other way round.

 

[_trent_]

For some time, our faction has always made no assumptions about the murky black box that we like to call the BGS, except one: NPCs have no effect on the influence of systems, except when they're dying at the hands of players.

Since 2.3 has come out, we've seen a number of influence swings in our systems that we simply can't explain by anything other than NPC actions affecting the influence levels. We have some very low traffic systems where I could put a name to the commander flying each ship listed in the traffic report and the results are not what we would have expected in 2.2.

Anyone else seeing this, or have my marbles deserted me?

 

[Vingtetun]

We took a test system that isn't ours with little traffic, picked a low influence faction and did 2m bounties and 20 low influence missions. It jumped 6 percent.

We tested the same in a system with same population but tried it on a high influence faction and it dropped.

Also we notice that npc fed factions are bubbling up to the top across the board locally with all independent ones dropping to the bottom.

However... we are working hard to stem the tide using cunning and sneaky tactics. Not something we can keep up indefinitely though.

 

[Starwolfe]

As much as I dislike some of the Supwerpower bounty changed - from what I can tell it is indeed all working as "intended" I think.

Most issues with a leading faction loosing ground tends to be pointing at how split bounties are counting against it, or bounties no longer counting at all for factions like Independents.

Faction-Specific bounties are indeed operating as intended, but from what I can gather under most circumstances (and by a wide margin of most I would say) the split of Supwerpower bounties is actively hurting systems where multiple affiliated minor factions exist.

It becomes more pronounced when 3 or more of a similar affiliated factions exist, as it becomes two strikes against and one for, backpedling hard work by huge steps.

That is before I get into any great length of influence caps where the positive work halts and anything extra the player does actively hurts progress. It gets worse since nobody really knows when you hit the positive influence cap for a faction.


I would like to urge, or at least wish a hefty look at the use of Supwerpower bounties by FDev, and if possible reworking the mechanic either back to how it used to be, or outright remove the influence effects of Supwerpower bounties altogether.

 

[Don Alvarez]

I would like to urge, or at least wish a hefty look at the use of Supwerpower bounties by FDev, and if possible reworking the mechanic either back to how it used to be, or outright remove the influence effects of Supwerpower bounties altogether.

Agree. This was not a good change, as I understand it. I'm not sure what they were thinking here. It's pretty much going to assure any system where bounties can be turned in, the superpower factions are eventually going to rise to the top, and Independent factions are all going to die a slow death. This in and of itself may not have been horrible, but they buffed the influence from bounties at the same time. Maybe I'm being slightly dramatic but for my little faction its literally undoing months of work. We're sinking slowly and nothing we've been able to do so far has been able to reverse the trend.

 

[Starwolfe]

I understand what they were thinking - a Federation bounty should not help Empire factions or so on.

The implication however does not make sense. There is not much reason for 3 different factions to take credit for a bounty when the member turned them in someplace else, or who did it was not affiliated with any of them.

If anything, I kind of favor the idea that the Supwerpower bounties only help the player's reputation and potentially the rank with the related superpower - hand in Fed bounties for Fed rank and such and remove the effect of it affecting influence.

 

[mia389]

Agree. This was not a good change, as I understand it. I'm not sure what they were thinking here. It's pretty much going to assure any system where bounties can be turned in, the superpower factions are eventually going to rise to the top, and Independent factions are all going to die a slow death. This in and of itself may not have been horrible, but they buffed the influence from bounties at the same time. Maybe I'm being slightly dramatic but for my little faction its literally undoing months of work. We're sinking slowly and nothing we've been able to do so far has been able to reverse the trend.

+100000000000000

 

[Don Alvarez]

I understand what they were thinking - a Federation bounty should not help Empire factions or so on.

The implication however does not make sense. There is not much reason for 3 different factions to take credit for a bounty when the member turned them in someplace else, or who did it was not affiliated with any of them.

If anything, I kind of favor the idea that the Supwerpower bounties only help the player's reputation and potentially the rank with the related superpower - hand in Fed bounties for Fed rank and such and remove the effect of it affecting influence.

The more I think about it the more I feel that its unfairly balanced against independent factions, even prior to 2.3. Mind you, I say this as someone who works a Fed-aligned faction. Personally, I'd rather they get rid of superpower bounties altogether, and just go with minor faction ones and buff the payouts, or as you say strip the influence from them. Now that the influence is split and effects boosted, this could also give rise to "bounty bomb" tactics to undermine independent factions sooooo easily. Case in point my home system has 4 federation factions and 3 independents, who used to do well with influence with no help from me. Guess which three factions are now mired at the bottom of the influence heap. players need to be able to focus their influence work, this puts both independent and controlling factions at the mercy of any Johnnie who flies by with bounties to drop off.

Is it possible FDEV did this to specifically target large independent factions to limit their influence?

 

[Starwolfe]

Well, despite the whole tinfoil-hat train of through it brings up, you do have a point.

The change more than not specifically targets non-Supwerpower Independent factions over any other, as it causes (intentionally or not) multiple free transaction effects to bolster those superpower aligned factions.

 

[the100thmonkey]

I've been running missions on the interface between the Empire and the Federation (I'm not proud; I just want a Courier) and it seems like every system I jump into is in some kind of conflict. I suspect that this is because superpower facitons are getting their influence pulled around willy-nilly by bounty hunters.

 

[Don Alvarez]

I've been running missions on the interface between the Empire and the Federation (I'm not proud; I just want a Courier) and it seems like every system I jump into is in some kind of conflict. I suspect that this is because superpower facitons are getting their influence pulled around willy-nilly by bounty hunters.

The bounty distribution by itself may have been tolerable, but they increased bounty influence as well. Between the two changes, any system now that has been a stopover for bounty hunting will trend towards the superpower factions occupying all the top influence slots while the independents get the short straw. I've already seen this trend in the systems where my faction is present. I couldn't figure what was happening till someone pointed me back to this thread. So since all the superpower aligned factions will be drawn towards a influence equilibrium, with each other, it will likely lead to war being more frequent.

 

[BL1P]

I am amassing quite the sum in supper power bounties.
Im too scared to hand the things in

 

[Schlack]

Is it possible FDEV did this to specifically target large independent factions to limit their influence?

Taken together the effects seem to have a limiting effect on larger factions (not only indys). This wouldn't be the first one introduced, even just in this season - an even more important one was the switch of states to faction wide instead of system only. The particular effect on indy factions was obvious from the first read of the patch notes. That this did not occur to FD is not credible, so the effect on indys is more than likely intentional. The scale and speed of the effect, I suspect, was not. I cant comment on the purpose though.

One of the first tests i did in the early days was on the effect of superpower bounties, there was none. Seems a waste to have have your bounties influence ineffective, useful only for funding donations.

I'd just also like to point out that in the nearly 500 pages of this thread there is a total of 1 FD post and it is related to this issue.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Has there been a bountyhunting CG since 2.3? That would give an idea just how broken this mechanic has become.

 

[Starwolfe]

Interestingly enough, not yet...

 

[Jane Turner]

Agreed - or share the influence rather than give all the full amount. Its the double or treble accounting that is an issue

 

[Starwolfe]

Agreed - or share the influence rather than give all the full amount. Its the double or treble accounting that is an issue

Well, that is the current issue. It is sharing it.

If there is 1 Fed faction, it gets their own Bounty, Plus the Fed bounty credit.

However, when you add another faction, you get Faction A + Fed, then Faction B + Fed. However Faction C is independent and only gets theirs.

So the result is that the Independent gains 1 mark, Faciton A gets 2, Feaction B gets 2. The Independent comes up short, depsite owning the station.

For a Rez hunter who will likely gain their influence cap, that means the trickle of a small ammount they gain for the other factions gradually add up - and since they are capped on the independent, it can't go higher, leaving only the other factions to catch up.

Compound the issue with the influence gains being absolutes that surpass 100% at the end of the day and needing to average down to equal 100% that independent faction begins to loose ground in spades.


In the past, the Supwerpower bounties were given to the station owner, so that independent gained the 2 marks for theirs and the Fed bounties, and the other 2 factions got theirs. The result is a very stable balance over time.

It does not however drive factions into conflicts frequently - which might be what FDev wanted with this change. I and many others actually don't want that. We have more than enough conflicts as it is - we don't need more still.


My compromise of just removing influence from Supwerpower bounties would be a good middle gorund I think.

Hotspot bounty hunting sites will till be at risk of conflicts, but not nearly as bad as it is now.

It would just be a 1 vs 2 kind of issue, of which could be countered by people that don't run KWS or players knowing how to help.

As it stands now, it is much too easy for it to generated massive influence swings.

 

[Jane Turner]

By sharing I mean having a 1/3rd of the effect if applied to 3 factions.

 

[goemon]

The more I think about it the more I feel that its unfairly balanced against independent factions, even prior to 2.3. ...
Is it possible FDEV did this to specifically target large independent factions to limit their influence?

as it is easier to gain influence for a low influence faction, than for a high influence faction, this patch doesn't only hurt independent faction, but also superpower aligned controlling factions, as they will win less and in effect loose influence to the lowest influence superpower aligned minor factions.

i did some calculations in the second part of this post: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...Bounties-Mechanic-and-Bountyhunting-after-2-3 - "The problem of superpower aligner controlling factions"

The change more than not specifically targets non-Supwerpower Independent factions over any other, as it causes (intentionally or not) multiple free transaction effects to bolster those superpower aligned factions.

the multiple free transactions have the effect of making a system harder to move at all, as more actions means every (for exampel: targeted) action has less of an effect. basically a system with a lot of superpower aligned minor factions and superpower redeems will feel like a large population system.

I've been running missions on the interface between the Empire and the Federation (I'm not proud; I just want a Courier) and it seems like every system I jump into is in some kind of conflict. I suspect that this is because superpower facitons are getting their influence pulled around willy-nilly by bounty hunters.

interesting observation. actually the current implementation should lead to all factions of the same superpower being close to each other in influence over time, and therefor a lot of of superpower internal conflicts.

The bounty distribution by itself may have been tolerable, but they increased bounty influence as well.

i personally actually think the distribution is more of a problem, than the buffed influence effect. multiplying actions by number of superpower aligned minor factions makes systems very unresponsible; the frustration of some (many) groups that no matter what they do, it has no effect has probably its source here. while i could enjoy as a indi cmdr to have a harder battle (by upped influence effects of bounties), i personally hate situation where i get no feedback whether what i do has any effect.

Taken together the effects seem to have a limiting effect on larger factions (not only indys). One of the first tests i did in the early days was on the effect of superpower bounties, there was none. Seems a waste to have have your bounties influence ineffective, useful only for funding donations.

it is for sure a problem for large factions, but i can already see the same problem for factions being present in only 1 system ... as for "no effect" - i see low influence superpower factions raising as expected.

for me superpower bounties are usefull to prepare systems we want to expand to.... use them to create chaos, or slow systems down. i daoubt that was intended ;-)

By sharing I mean having a 1/3rd of the effect if applied to 3 factions.

that would make the effect slower, but generally would lead to the same situation imho.

 

[Shock]

Well, that is the current issue. It is sharing it.

If there is 1 Fed faction, it gets their own Bounty, Plus the Fed bounty credit.

However, when you add another faction, you get Faction A + Fed, then Faction B + Fed. However Faction C is independent and only gets theirs.

So the result is that the Independent gains 1 mark, Faciton A gets 2, Feaction B gets 2. The Independent comes up short, depsite owning the station.

I'm surprised no one has brought up how the independent factions have gained a huge defending bonus with the super power bounty hunting spread in 2.3.

If the independent faction controls the system, 100% of the bounties from that system (without using a KWS) goes to the independent faction, ok that hasn't changed from 2.2 and 2.3, but, what has changed is if you want to flip that system to the Federation for example, and a Federation faction owns a station, however there's 3 other Federation factions in that system, if you turn in Federation bounties (gained from bounty hunting in other systems) into the station the Federation faction owns, in 2.3 those Federation bounties are spread between all 4 of those Federation factions, making the independent faction stronger in defending their system.